Will You Survive WINTER’S EMBRACE?

[Puddy]

16 minutes ago, ajb1978 said:

I wouldn't mind that either just so long as they weren't sadistic about how they hide them.  Like how Lost Cairn 160 exists in an area you can't normally access, and requires deliberately exploiting the infinite friction and mountain-goating your way across near-sheer drops to reach.

 

Oh don't even get me started on the Cairns....that should be an achievement, or at the very least a badge! 

Didn't they fix the cairns though?  I know i got them all minus one on  a run way back but it was because one was duplicated and one was missing.  They fixed that, so did they not fix the hard to get to ones.  I don't remember an inaccessible one.  Unless you mean the one near carter dam, hard to get to but not impossible.

And as far as the syrup goes, i wouldn't have minded sadistic.  It's more sadistic to me to make them not all accessible in one save ha.  Now i'm gonna have to save scum....unless all custom runs count too.  I hope so but i'd love to know for sure   

 

Edit:  I've just had a really sadistic thought!  The Cairns should be a challenge...but with sprains chance set really high haha

Edited July 4, 2020 by Puddy

[ajb1978]

1 hour ago, Puddy said:

Unless you mean the one near carter dam, hard to get to but not impossible.

That's the one I'm talking about.  It's not impossible at all, it's just in a place that no one would ever have any reason to go, even if they were exploring every distant corner.  It requires that someone actively exploit the absolute friction of sloped surfaces to access an area that no normal person could ever get to unassisted in reality.  I'm OK with obscure hidden details, but requiring that someone exploit a thing that they actively attempt to discourage exploiting (considering how they frequently alter terrain to make such tricks impossible), that crosses a line.

[Puddy]

3 minutes ago, ajb1978 said:

That's the one I'm talking about.  It's not impossible at all, it's just in a place that no one would ever have any reason to go, even if they were exploring every distant corner.  It requires that someone actively exploit the absolute friction of sloped surfaces to access an area that no normal person could ever get to unassisted in reality.  I'm OK with obscure hidden details, but requiring that someone exploit a thing that they actively attempt to discourage exploiting (considering how they frequently alter terrain to make such tricks impossible), that crosses a line.

Oh yeh for sure!  If i hadn't known you could get up there to get it, then i never would have found it, i even had to watch a video at the time to figure out how to actually get up there.  Sorry, didn't mean to sound dismissive if i did.

I had always thought that that got left up there by accident when they changed the terrain in that region maybe, before i started playing the game.  But if it was put there purposely then yeh that's a bit of a bum move.  I mean people paid money for those to be in the game...and presumably....accessible.

Having said that, i'd still prefer the maple syrups to be pre-placed in the game (but not as bad as that), than just rng.  So at least you know it could be done in one save if you looked long or hard enough 

[Neromancer]

On 7/2/2020 at 10:07 PM, ajb1978 said:

Well any loot I might have gotten off him was more than compensated for.  Some of the containers at the summit were doubled up, and essentially lootable twice.  If you loot the container, then tap the button just long enough for the door to open, there's another container inside the first one that can also be looted if you click fast enough.  No maple syrup to be found anywhere on TWM, but scoring two expedition parkas, snow pants, a spare wool ear wrap, and five 97% firestrikers made it worth the effort.

same here - double lootable, no sirup 
toons of MRE's

i took the "long way up" as usual and enjoyed the journey even the Blizzard thanks to my Bearcoat, Deerpants and Rabbitcloth, got only 1 Firestriker 97% but i dont want to burn down the hole Country :-)

[Neromancer]

On 7/2/2020 at 8:24 PM, peteloud said:

Whether a game is too easy or too difficult mainly depends upon the level that you are playing at. On top of that there is a considerable difference between the start of a game if one has no badges that give great benefits and has zero levels of skills compared to starting with the benefits given by badges and high levels of skills.  Of course if someone is using the mod to edit saves to give themselves ever-lasting life, unlimited carrying capacity, lots of everything, maxing out resource condition etc. then the game is very easy at all levels.

I started WE in Pleasant Valley and it was a difficult start.  I found very few resources in PV and the it was very cold. I have played TLD a great deal, so I dread to think how most players will manage to survive that start. Eventually I found an an axe, hacksaw and knife, when the game became easier, but it was very difficult getting that far.

Yes and...

Difficulty per se does not make a more enjoyable or more better game experience in my opinion, while there are some games(From Software Games, Cuphead) that are based on you feeling successful in beating them. For me it is the variance and what i could best describe as good game Design, the way game points to a task or "talks to me" and the way a have to find out what needs to be done and how. For Example you find animals bones in a Cave you immediately know this Cave is inhabited or along a Path of a Predator(Bear mostly) the danger is readable.

When I entered TWM I already adjusted my gameplay to things i would never ever do in an interloper run:
It was night and snowing at the "Wing"(first containers) and i heard a Moose, only with took my Gun. But Hey 50 rounds so I decided yeah go for it. Hit him 3 or 4 times when the Blizzards start he trampled me, But Hey i got 7 Stims lets see who's last man standing. Put 20 rounds from a far distant into him probably only one hit, got trampled again, now i started to daisy chain stims. But Oh no all that noise made the Bear from around the corner have look whats going on, so i got jumped by a Bear, a certain end on any looper run. But the Power of Stims saved me. So i was able to hit the Bear and send him into "running away" mode went after the Moose again and got trampled 3 more Times but in the end managed to take him down - completely lost orientation- What a fight, my heart was pumping while i tried to find my way to a near Cave it was Dark the Blizzard made everything look the same, my health where on the last bit, my Lantern near empty but i managed to get into a Cave aaand  i did it, Yes 300 hours of broken Rips to heal. But Hey i was alive and happy.

Edited July 4, 2020 by Neromancer

[monsieur_cronky]

Hm hello again all, I'm reluctantly back here after previously posting in support of this Winter's Embrace challenge - but now I'd like to provide some critical feedback to the devs!

My previous post said that criticisms of 'too easy' or 'not different enough' were missing the point, since this event was about a bit of novelty providing another excuse to explore and get some unique badges. And I still believe that.

But the Maple Syrup challenge... that's just not fun. I'm going to echo many of the comments on this thread already, and say that to earn this badge is just drudgery. This badge encourages play that is focussed on rummaging through kitchen cupboards. After an enjoyable 10 or so hours in a single WE game (in which I earned the 25 day badge, and found only 3 Maple Syrups), I realised I didn't have the free time available to find all Maple Syrups like that before WE ends. So I've just spent an hour trying to find as many Maple Syrups as I can, using whatever nefarious means possible (ie. starting new games in PV, then sprinting to Thomson's Crossing or Farmhouse), and ended up with 4!! Just 4.

So I've decided to stop trying for this badge, which is a bit disappointing. I get that badges should require a bit of effort to earn, but this one seems to require either a lot of boring effort, or just oodles of time. Either way, that's me out.

Great work on the 'survive 25 days' badge, I thoroughly enjoyed that - but it's a misfire on the Canadian Feast badge. Sorry!

[Sherri]

2 hours ago, monsieur_cronky said:

Hm hello again all, I'm reluctantly back here after previously posting in support of this Winter's Embrace challenge - but now I'd like to provide some critical feedback to the devs!

My previous post said that criticisms of 'too easy' or 'not different enough' were missing the point, since this event was about a bit of novelty providing another excuse to explore and get some unique badges. And I still believe that.

But the Maple Syrup challenge... that's just not fun. I'm going to echo many of the comments on this thread already, and say that to earn this badge is just drudgery. This badge encourages play that is focussed on rummaging through kitchen cupboards. After an enjoyable 10 or so hours in a single WE game (in which I earned the 25 day badge, and found only 3 Maple Syrups), I realised I didn't have the free time available to find all Maple Syrups like that before WE ends. So I've just spent an hour trying to find as many Maple Syrups as I can, using whatever nefarious means possible (ie. starting new games in PV, then sprinting to Thomson's Crossing or Farmhouse), and ended up with 4!! Just 4.

So I've decided to stop trying for this badge, which is a bit disappointing. I get that badges should require a bit of effort to earn, but this one seems to require either a lot of boring effort, or just oodles of time. Either way, that's me out.

Great work on the 'survive 25 days' badge, I thoroughly enjoyed that - but it's a misfire on the Canadian Feast badge. Sorry!

I agree. Having fun in the colder weather & working for the 25 days... but I have no desire to run multiple saves to get syrup.

As a voyager player (so far) the extra challenge of the bitter cold is quite fun though.

[Neromancer]

is possible that after a certain amount of maple syrups found all the other ones disappear?

I've been now through 5 additional regions (BI, MT, BR, TM and CH) without finding any, not a single one? And in Mountain Town i looked EVERYWHERE.

Got over 200 Round, found my Survivor sometimes dreaming about automatic weapons.

[Luca Loquax]

Mmmmmm tangy!  Thank you Hinterland!

[TFA303]

Same here - I enjoyed the 25-day experiment with the extreme temperatures, but I went back to my ongoing Stalker run because Syrup Hunting wasn't fun anymore.

[SirSharper]

i feel like im the only one enjoying full sprinting to hunt for syrup

 

[piddy3825]

9 hours ago, Neromancer said:

is possible that after a certain amount of maple syrups found all the other ones disappear?

I've been now through 5 additional regions (BI, MT, BR, TM and CH) without finding any, not a single one? And in Mountain Town i looked EVERYWHERE.

Got over 200 Round, found my Survivor sometimes dreaming about automatic weapons.

I've noticed that the condition of the syrup I do find has been degrading the longer my run is taking to complete.  I just made it to BR and for example only found one bottle of syrup and two bags of chips.  All items were under 35% condition.  So maybe it is possible for some bottles to reach 0% condition and possibly disappear?   There have been some earlier comments on 0% item conditions where the player's are finding equipment and supplies in a "ruined" state.   on a side note... I have over 165 pistol rounds collected and have only found 3 revolvers so far.  Been using the rifle a lot more than ever so definitely burning thru rifle rounds... next stop BI!

[Kitsune_Wizard]

Been having great fun with the event but sometimes the weather borders on absurdity. I've made my mid-game trek to bleak inlet to stock up on a billion rifle rounds doing the max-smithing cheese, and while the region isn't impossible to navigate by any means it's just a bit cheesy. I have a bad habit of over preparing massively, so when I get stuck in a shack for two straight days of blizzards, with only periodic breaks between another multi hour blizzard, I just feel a bit annoyed and delayed more than anything. Which of course, goes double for waiting for an aurora to get into the cannery. 

It took me over two in game weeks to get an aurora because every night a blizzard would roll through. I contemplated just yeeting myself into the timberwolves and starting again. 

But currently camping out here and culling the local wolves for new coats.

And yes I need to echo the above comments and ask you to please up syrup spawn rates. Those things are rarer than an MRE. I've searched the entirety of bleak inlet, mystery lake, broken railroad and coastal highway, and I only found 2. On the plus side, if civilization ever comes back to great bear I could make a living as a weapons merchant cause I have about three thousand rifles

Or, you could make the badge count ketchup chips eaten AND syrups eaten(drank?) toward the goal.

Much love!

[Lumi]

On 6/30/2020 at 3:21 PM, acada said:

I have been to Canada once (only Niagara falls border) and one thing made a not erasable impression appart from the waterfall. Have you tried to eat poutin? French fries with gravy and fat cheese? My gallbladder wanted to go up and sew my mouth to stop me ingest another bite (and I am an healthy person with no digestive problem at all). I understand it is food for lumberjacks in -40°C. Why they serve it in mid of summer to tourists? IOne full portion in mid day and I had to skip the dinner. But it is strangelly addictive. Every day I was there I had to get one (from different restaurant for science).

Heard of it. Not sure how I didn't realize it'd be artery cement that bad. Gah. Canada. 

[NardoLoopa]

I thoroughly enjoyed this event. 

As a normal Stalker player, I over-prepped for the 25days, but just consider myself silly for doing so.  The change in weather was a thrill.  The search for syrup was frustrating, but in the end determining a real-life efficient way to do so, was actually enjoyable -- though not how I normally like to consider playing the game.  If not for the guaranteed syrups, though, 25 wouldn't have been any fun at all.  10.  10 would be nice.  Something you could get in a single long play-through.

One thing I just like to call out as a wonderful aspect of this event: calendar independence!  4DON is tough because of real-life commitments.  However, this event gave plenty of time to manage my calendar.

Thanks again, Hinterland!  You guys just keep doing what you're doing.

[piddy3825]

On 7/9/2020 at 9:08 AM, SirSharper said:

i feel like im the only one enjoying full sprinting to hunt for syrup

 

I activated my recharge stamina perk just for this reason.  I can sprint from the red barn  in PV to the farmhouse in just about 5 min real time.  takes about 4-5 seconds to full recharge between sprints.  I give the wolves the middle finger as I sprint by like Usain Bolt!  oh, and the side benefit is that I can sleep soundly each night after a full days exertion.

Edited July 12, 2020 by piddy3825
spelling

[acada]

13 hours ago, NardoLoopa said:

If not for the guaranteed syrups, though, 25 wouldn't have been any fun at all.  10.  10 would be nice.  Something you could get in a single long play-through.

I hear you and I subscribe. If the chalenge could be finished in one run, it would be nice.

[Sherri]

10 hours ago, acada said:

 If the chalenge could be finished in one run, it would be nice.

Since it's a month-long event it had to be pretty substantial.

[NardoLoopa]

2 hours ago, Sherri said:

Since it's a month-long event it had to be pretty substantial.

You're right.  I think a good balance would be that to do it in one run, you have to hit some of the more difficult points to hit all over the map.  Radio tower in BI, Peak of TWM, Inside the Canning plant at BI.  Etc.  For those who want to make it easier: you can do multiple runs without having to surmount these achievements.

This approach would give a nice voluntary challenge for anyone up for it.

[Balakeyy]

So, I just consumed my 26th bottle of maple syrup, and the badge hasn't dropped. To clarify, do ANY saves in the game count towards this badge, or do they only count if they are in the Winter's Embrace version? I have spent a good 50 hours or so trying to get these things legitimately, but I did most of them on Pilgrim survivor, because it's just taking so long to find them. I want to point out that in the phrasing of the badge/announcement, it's specifically phrased, "across multiple saves while WINTER’S EMBRACE is active." This doesn't directly say that the save needs to be in a Winter's Embrace file, just that the items need to be found and consumed during the event's life. It's extra misleading because these items already show up in other game modes (which is how this event was first brought to my attention; I found a maple syrup and a few bags of ketchup chips on my Interloper save before the announcement showed up). If these items had ONLY appeared in a Winter's Embrace file until after the event was over, it would have been more clear.

Is this a bug, or did I just misunderstand it?

I want to add that if this was a misunderstanding, I'm a bit frustrated with the amount of time that is necessary to commit to this badge during a limited time event. This has caused most players to just create 18-25 save files that are just set up to start at likely spawn points and chug the jars, or to drink and reload. I didn't feel like these methods were in the spirit of The Long Dark, so instead of doing that, I just started a couple games on Pilgrim. Yeah, it makes it easier to find them (a LITTLE), but at least I'm truly playing the game and not using a technicality to cheat myself into a badge. Finding 25 jars of maple syrup on Winter's Embrace difficulty before they despawn? Ain't nobody got time for dat.

[peteloud]

2 hours ago, Balakeyy said:

This has caused most players to just create 18-25 save files that are just set up to start at likely spawn points and chug the jars, or to drink and reload. I didn't feel like these methods were in the spirit of The Long Dark, so i. . . .

Why, Oh Why, do people not just play the game as it is meant to be played.  The challenge is meant to be surviving in the harsh, wintry wastes of Canada, not finding a fiddle that gets you the badge without overcoming the set challenge. 

In doing so people demean the game and make the badge that they so lust after meaningless.   The badge is meant to say, "I survived the harsh , wintry wastes against cold and wild animals."  Not, "I found an easy way to get this badge without completing the challenge". 

Do such players make fake military medals which they then claim to have won during military service.

[monsieur_cronky]

2 hours ago, peteloud said:

Why, Oh Why, do people not just play the game as it is meant to be played.  The challenge is meant to be surviving in the harsh, wintry wastes of Canada, not finding a fiddle that gets you the badge without overcoming the set challenge. 

In doing so people demean the game and make the badge that they so lust after meaningless.   The badge is meant to say, "I survived the harsh , wintry wastes against cold and wild animals."  Not, "I found an easy way to get this badge without completing the challenge". 

Do such players make fake military medals which they then claim to have won during military service.

Well there's an interesting psychology question in there, once you strip off the... less charitable aspects of your comment.

While I think most people value badges to a large extent because they serve as a reminder of a small triumph, some people also see an element of value in them as a collector's item. Not unlike collecting merchandise, it's a visual reinforcement of a connection to something you love. It's not necessarily one or the other, it can be a mixture of both elements.

I decided not to pursue the Canadian Feast badge but I do feel some disappointment that I'll have a hole in my badge collection. But I don't feel that people who decide to obtain the badge in their own way deserve the kind of accusations you're throwing about. 🤔

[acada]

3 hours ago, peteloud said:

Why, Oh Why, do people not just play the game as it is meant to be played. 

Well I like the survival game wit all original features and purposes. But now, there is amusement / another purpose in the game. If it would be possible to gather 25 chips and 25 bottles of syrup in one run, I would try that sniffing over all maps. But according this forum plus the note from devs "you can try it as many times you want" it seems like we are encouraged to run at least one 25 days run and then run multiple runs with one purpose: To gather maple syrup.

Plus there is new optional feature to gather telemetry from the game. With all devs kindness it is disabled by default and has to be enabled if one wants to contribute. Perhaps devs wants us to map players usual paths in regions. And I must add if it is the reason, I dont mind. My work for living is testing software. I can give you the data (and I have already enabled the option).

[Balakeyy]

On 7/14/2020 at 4:03 AM, peteloud said:

Why, Oh Why, do people not just play the game as it is meant to be played.  The challenge is meant to be surviving in the harsh, wintry wastes of Canada, not finding a fiddle that gets you the badge without overcoming the set challenge. 

In doing so people demean the game and make the badge that they so lust after meaningless.   The badge is meant to say, "I survived the harsh , wintry wastes against cold and wild animals."  Not, "I found an easy way to get this badge without completing the challenge". 

Do such players make fake military medals which they then claim to have won during military service.

I think you've missed the point of my grievance.

I love completing challenges as they are meant to be. I appreciate the patience, skill, strategy, and dedication it takes to achieve all of the goals set forth in survival games, and I would absolutely love to complete this badge as it is meant to be done.

However, this badge, if completed the way that Hinterland apparently intends (in Winter's Embrace setting only), would take such a large time commitment to achieve properly, that most people can't afford the time to do it. As I said, I spent about 50 hours just to complete this badge in a legitimate way, and on a normal work week, I don't even have that much time to myself for all of the other things I have to do in my life. This is a limited time badge. One month is NOT enough time for the majority of players to complete this challenge legitimately, without looking for shortcuts. If this were an unlimited time badge, I absolutely would not have an issue, or try to complete it another way. My problem isn't the challenge itself, it's the unrealistic realtime limitations. 

My other issue is that the details of the badge didn't specify clearly that these items had to be found in Winter's Embrace MODE, just while the event was active. As I said in my previous comment, it only indicates that you have to find and consume these things across multiple saves while the event is active, which is this month. I had found these items in my interloper game before the event was even announced, albeit just a few hours beforehand, which led me to believe that they really meant that this achievement could be completed through any active game saves. So instead of just loading a bunch of saves and cheating my way towards a badge like most people are doing, I decided to play in the spirit of the game as best I could with the limited time I can commit to it during this short event. So, although I already spent 50+ hours trying to get this badge in what I *thought* was a correct method, the badge did not drop.

I don't appreciate it when people comment just to insult and add nothing of value to the conversation, especially when they don't fully read and comprehend the issue being discussed. If you don't have anything nice or productive to say, don't say anything at all. We all like this game. Let's not take time to insult each other, and use these forums for how they're intended - to help each other, and to further enjoy our experiences with this great game.

Edited July 15, 2020 by Balakeyy
Clarification

[NardoLoopa]

On 7/14/2020 at 5:34 AM, monsieur_cronky said:

While I think most people value badges to a large extent because they serve as a reminder of a small triumph, some people also see an element of value in them as a collector's item. Not unlike collecting merchandise, it's a visual reinforcement of a connection to something you love. It's not necessarily one or the other, it can be a mixture of both elements.

Sir, the interwebs do not deserve your level of sagacity, but it sure does need more of it.  Can we clone you?

On 7/14/2020 at 12:50 AM, Balakeyy said:

Is this a bug, or did I just misunderstand it?

For sure, the wording could have been clearer.  In just reading the announcement, I would have my doubts.  I do believe it is meant to be in the Winter's Embrace mode.  Unfortunately, English can something be grammatically ambiguous.  (e.g. "Police attack men with spears." . . . wait, just who is holding the spear?)  Fortunately, there is a place to ask for clarification.