Feat progression in custom difficulties

[Satouthedeusmusco]

Is there a reason why getting progress on feats is disabled in custom difficulties? It seems rather strange to me.

It feels like a punishment for modifying to difficulty to my preference. I personally enjoy playing with high cold, a small number of predators, a large number of prey animals and lots of plants and natural resources. But with the feats system as it is I feel obliged to play on the official difficulties.

I could see feat progression being disabled in custom difficulties of balance reasons, but in all honesty it doesn’t make any sense to me. It’s a single player game so it’s not like I’m ruining it for anyone else. And I honestly don’t see how one could really break the feat progression using a custom difficulty.

I’d suggest just enabling feat progression in the custom difficulty modes. I can only see upsides for the overall player experience.

[Serenity]

Somehow they got it into their heads that people can only make the game easier, but don't realize that you can also make the game harder. Or that pretty much all the options are based on the standard game modes and there isn't much to make it easier than Pilgrim.

The proper way to implement these kind of achievement limitations it to set a minimum value for some options, so if you change them to something too easy achievements/feats are disabled.

[Satouthedeusmusco]

Yes I also got that feeling. It's so strange that feat progression is blocked on custom settings when it's available in the incredibly easy pilgrim mode.

You could make a mega ultra death custom mode that is harder than interloper and not get any feat progression or you can play on pilgrim where you have to try to die and get all the feats you want.

I just find the idea of limiting feat progression so weird. Even if someone could break it, so what? It's a single player game, it's not like they're going to ruin it for someone else.

[FoghornFarts]

+1

People have been asking for this for years, and it's really killing my enjoyment of the game. I really dislike wildlife in this game, but I want to make scavenging and crafting more difficult. Every time I start a Pilgrim mode game, I get bored within a few game days, but going onto higher difficulties means I have to deal with the wolves.

Edited November 29, 2020 by FoghornFarts

[stmSantana]

Earlier this same question was answered by the Hinterland in this forum.
"Custom games are so easy to survive that they are not worthy of unlocking badges."

Really? 9999 out of 10,000 of the game's customers don't think so!!
Just display "Badge progression is locked" in red letters on the screen only when the player sets custom items easier than the pilgrims.
Or create a UI that makes setting items easier than the pilgrim only when the "lock badge progression" button is turned on.
Anyway, Hinterland should be able to allow people to do that in some way.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
This post is an automatic translation. Please forgive me if I am rude due to translation errors.

Edited November 29, 2020 by stmSantana

[gotmilkanot]

Not sure what Hinterland was thinking when they made that statement since it doesn't make sense at all considering how you can still gain feats on Pilgrim which is "so easy to survive". By their logic, how is Pilgrim still worthy of gaining feats then?

So in all honesty, they're just contradicting their reason for not allowing feats progression on Custom.

Edited November 29, 2020 by gotmilkanot

[ManicManiac]

I recommend the search function, because there has been a lot of good conversation about this exact subject in many other previous threads.


I'll echo what I discussed in one of them: 

On 4/22/2020 at 1:45 AM, ManicManiac said:

In general, and for everyone else reading this post...

I think that the feats were meant to be a reward earned by playing the modes of the game that were intended by Hinterland, and not ones designed/tailored by players.  I think it's more than a fair trade off.

Custom was just a gift to us so that players could tune the game to better suit them or perhaps add or remove certain nuances.  I think that to have that kind of freedom of play and then still fuss about feat progression is kind of a, "I want my cake and eat it too" sort of situation. 

Folks might not like it (as this thread makes obvious), but I think Hinterland's decisions about their game should be respected.

On 4/21/2020 at 12:39 AM, ManicManiac said:

I like that there is no feat progression with custom.  A custom experience is one that is tailored by the player, and I think trading that for feat progression was a good call on Hinterland's part.

On 4/23/2020 at 12:50 AM, ManicManiac said:

The difference to me seems clear... the "standard" modes are designed and curated by Hinterland, and thereby represents "normal" play.

"Custom" is not curated by Hinterland, because it permits the player to modify and/or overhaul the experience to better suit their personal tastes.

Feats, I think, should be a reward for "standard" play... not our own custom version of the game.

 

Edited November 29, 2020 by ManicManiac

[ManicManiac]

11 hours ago, stmSantana said:

Really? 9999 out of 10,000 of the game's customers don't think so!!

Do you really have the data to back up this claim?

I'm not trying to be snarky here, and I mean no offense to you personally... but have you really polled 10,000 of the game's customers?
...and do you know for a fact what the options are of 9,999 of those customers is on this particular subject? 
(I just tend to doubt you were able to survey 10,000 TLD customers...)

Edited November 29, 2020 by ManicManiac

[odizzido]

As far as I know only manicmaniac and Ralph don't want feats in custom so those numbers are likely not to far off.

 

I am just lucky that it doesn't effect me. I still find it really strange that people like to lower the amount of fun others have out of some sense of elitism or whatever.

[gotmilkanot]

44 minutes ago, odizzido said:

As far as I know only manicmaniac and Ralph don't want feats in custom so those numbers are likely not to far off.

 

I am just lucky that it doesn't effect me. I still find it really strange that people like to lower the amount of fun others have out of some sense of elitism or whatever.

Exactly this. I personally only play vanilla difficulties but I find it ridiculous that some people have to grind feats on Pilgrim so that they can finally start moving onto their custom games - which, as far as I know, are set harder than Pilgrim. To me, that just seems very counter-productive and I highly doubt this is Hinterland's "intended" way of playing their game.

So why not just enable the feats progression on Custom and make everyone happy? It doesn't affect me at all if someone playing Custom is able to earn feats (it's a single player game for God's sake) and from my observations, there's a fairly large group of people who do not find the vanilla difficulties just as enjoyable so it's still going to be a win-win situation for both the players and Hinterland (who'll be able to keep this specific group of customers happy).

Edited November 29, 2020 by gotmilkanot

[Admin]

Please refrain from making up stats, then claiming they’re real when you agree with your own made up stat. 
 

We are generally aware of the community’s views on issues and are interested in your opinions not your opinions about what other people’s opinions are. If you want something say it. Your personal opinion is all you can speak for. 

[McThulu]

I wonder who would dislike that change? Which settings in custom mode can I use to make it significantly easier to complete the feats than in pilgrim mode?
I see feats as a long time reward for playing the game. It's nothing that can be done in a couple of houres - even with the easiest custom settings, right? So why not spending this time in a gamemode you like?

A few weeks ago I wanted to start a new game (interlooper with rifle) and saw that I already achieved 80% of "Efficient Machine". So instead of playing the custom game I wanted - I felt forced to play a "normal" game. I spent the most time sleeping in order to get this feat.
Is it fun? I don't think so ... Would it have been easier in interlooper custom settings? I don't think so ...

If the next update contains more feats I will consider of skipping them. I really don't wanna be forced to spent much more time in non-custom games anymore. Not because I dislike them, but because custom is just more fun.

[past caring]

11 hours ago, Admin said:

Please refrain from making up stats, then claiming they’re real when you agree with your own made up stat. 
 

We are generally aware of the community’s views on issues and are interested in your opinions not your opinions about what other people’s opinions are. If you want something say it. Your personal opinion is all you can speak for. 

With respect, if someone writes "97.5%" or "69.3%" they are making a very specific claim - and if the facts don't tally with that claim, or if they haven't conducted any polling, they are indeed, "making up stats".

But when someone writes " 9999 out of 10,000" this is clearly interchangeable with writing something like "99.9999999%". No-one but a pedant would understand that to be a factual claim - it's simply another way of saying "the overwhelming majority".

And given the views expressed in this thread and others, even the dogs in the street know the views of the overwhelming majority of the game's customers on this issue.

[Daymo]

Having a feat switched on makes very little difference to the game, if you don’t have them you’re really not missing anything. 
The skill book feat is almost unnoticeable in the game. The fire starting feat gets you to level 3 which will take you 5 minutes to grind in the game. The calorie feat is barely noticeable in game unless you are playing interloper (I imagine, cos I don’t play interloper). The one that reduces calorie loss whilst sprinting has is barely noticeable. 
I don’t have the newer feats so can’t speak for them. 
The feat that recharges stamina faster is the only one I feel is properly useful.

TLDR: the feats don’t make much difference to the game which is how they were designed.

[gotmilkanot]

49 minutes ago, Daymo said:

TLDR: the feats don’t make much difference to the game which is how they were designed.

Interesting, if feats don't impact the game that much then what's stopping Hinterland from enabling the progression in Custom? What's there to be persistent about since it wouldn't even break the game?

I just don't understand why people who bought the game are being punished for playing a mode introduced by the game company themselves. Playing Custom doesn't break any game rules nor harm anyone else's experience, does it? 

[Screenshot Pilgrim]

18 hours ago, odizzido said:

I still find it really strange that people like to lower the amount of fun others have out of some sense of elitism or whatever.

 

1 hour ago, gotmilkanot said:

I just don't understand why people who bought the game are being punished for playing a mode introduced by the game company themselves

Let’s keep in mind, The Long Dark is Hinterland’s intellectual property. To assign them petty motives because what they do doesn’t align with one’s wishes is unfair.

As for feats, I think it makes sense to leave them as they are.  Being given access to Custom Settings itself is a (free) bonus much greater than feat badges imo.

Edited November 30, 2020 by Screenshot Pilgrim

[gotmilkanot]

34 minutes ago, Screenshot Pilgrim said:

 

Let’s keep in mind, The Long Dark is Hinterland’s intellectual property. To assign them petty motives because what they do doesn’t aline with one’s wishes is unfair.

Keep in mind that at the end of the day, it is us the players that Hinterland has to keep happy. We're, after all, the customers whom Hinterland depends on for its success. To discriminate a group of customers (a fairly large one) without a logical reasoning is unfair too.

I've said what I wanted so I shall not argue further lest the discussion turns ugly. Personally, this issue doesn't affect me at all since I don't play Custom but I hope to see all players being treated equally one day.

Edited November 30, 2020 by gotmilkanot

[manolitode]

The feat Blizzard walker does make life easier in the higher difficulties. You can probably see how a player could design a custom game to gain this feat much quicker than usual. 

[Screenshot Pilgrim]

16 minutes ago, gotmilkanot said:

Keep in mind that at the end of the day, it is us the players that Hinterland has to keep happy. We're, after all, the customers whom Hinterland depends on for its success. To discriminate a group of customers (a fairly large one) without a logical reasoning is unfair too.

I disagree.  To make something that customers will want to buy, yes.  To "keep happy" those who have already bought the product, is a generous choice but not a requirement.  Custom Settings was a free bonus.  If they never released it, would that be discrimination against those who have it on their personal wish list?  Sure, because the makers of things always discriminate, or in other words, they make decisions about how to develop their property.

[gotmilkanot]

9 minutes ago, Screenshot Pilgrim said:

I disagree.  To make something that customers will want to buy, yes.  To "keep happy" those who have already bought the product, is a generous choice but not a requirement.  Custom Settings was a free bonus.  If they never released it, would that be discrimination against those who have it on their personal wish list?  Sure, because the makers of things always discriminate, or in other words, they make decisions about how to develop their property.

Yes, you're right in a sense that Hinterland's not obliged to provide us free updates once we bought the game but it's always good to consider customer feedback if they want to improve as a company.

What the players here are asking for is not unreasonable. They are not asking for free DLCs or multi-player stuff, it's just a simple toggle to enable the feats progression on Custom which can be implemented very easily.

And if Hinterland is really paranoid about players making custom games easier than Pilgrim to cheese the feats, they could just add a boundary like how some of the posters have suggested above.

Right now, this "no feats progression in Custom" policy - which was meant to discourage players from cheesing the feats in Custom - has only encouraged players to do so in Pilgrim more, since they just want to get it over and done with the feats so that they can use them in their custom games. I could tell you how I can still cheese my feats in official difficulties if I really wanted to (you can easily grind Blizzard Walker in Story mode in like 2 hours btw) so is the policy actually working? Because I highly doubt so.

So is there still a need for this policy?Think for yourselves.

[past caring]

1 hour ago, Screenshot Pilgrim said:

I disagree.  To make something that customers will want to buy, yes.  To "keep happy" those who have already bought the product, is a generous choice but not a requirement.  Custom Settings was a free bonus.  If they never released it, would that be discrimination against those who have it on their personal wish list?  Sure, because the makers of things always discriminate, or in other words, they make decisions about how to develop their property.

I'd say that's an unfortunate shift in the use of the word 'discriminate' - i.e using it twice as if it has the same meaning in both cases. It clearly doesn't here; in the first instance it's being used in the sense of 'to treat unfairly' and in the second, it's being used in the sense of 'to make a choice'. And whilst I don't disagree that the game is Hinterland's 'property' that argument has its limits - it's a property, or commodity, that it is trying to sell to gamers (or more accurately, the use of which it is trying to sell to gamers). Its success in doing that, will, to a not insignificant extent, be influenced by the number of first person recommendations it gets (e.g. I know of at least three friends who have bought the game on my recommendation).

Moreover, what is also missing from your argument is a recognition of what Hinterland sold and we bought - an unfinished game. That isn't a criticism of Hinterland - they were open about that fact. But that means that not only were those who bought the game taking a bit of a punt (i.e. on the game ever being finished) but also argue that it is more reasonable than it otherwise would be for those who have bought the game to (politely and respectfully) tell Hinterland when they think they've got it wrong. And whilst I recognise that I could be mistaken here, I assume that continued sales has some bearing on whether the game does get finished? If that's not true any longer (i.e. because Hinterland have already made enough money to finish the game) then I am pretty sure it must have been true at some stage?

Edited November 30, 2020 by past caring
spelling

[Screenshot Pilgrim]

50 minutes ago, past caring said:

I'd say that's an unfortunate shift in the use of the word 'discriminate' - i.e using it twice as if it has the same meaning in both cases. It clearly doesn't here; in the first instance it's being used in the sense of 'to treat unfairly' and in the second, it's being used in the sense of 'to make a choice'

I disagree that it’s an unfortunate shift, because I object to the word ‘discriminate’ being used to describe perceived unfairness on Hinterland’s part for their decisions.  And to suggestions that they’re punishing anyone by not giving them something they (individual players) want. 

[Admin]

Locking thread as it's gotten very off-track and fallen into hyperbole which we asked you to avoid.

The request itself is a reasonable one, it's just the way that this thread progressed despite our attempt earlier to keep it on track.