Mental health meter

[vta4ever]

I know we already have cabin fever, but I think that it would be neat to have a mental health meter that is affected by: how much you eat and drink, pre-existing conditions such as one that makes you sad when you kill rabbits or causes mood swings (maybe there could be a badge that effects how many, if any conditions exist), reading a self-help books or adopting a pet rock. good mental health will make you perform actions quicker and burn slightly fewer calories. bad mental health will make you burn slightly more calories and your character can become grumpy, causing him to give up occasionally while performing actions like crafting or sowing and maybe even refuse to get out of bed. what to ya'all think?

[Ice Hole]

On 5/26/2019 at 1:43 PM, vta4ever said:

such as one that makes you sad when you kill rabbits o

The idea of a mental well being system was discussed long ago on the roadmap.  It could still be upcoming.  The reason I think it might show up eventually is because we have the ability to release rabbits but before releasing the rabbit our character pets it on the head. 

Something the HL team could consider to relieve stress is by witnessing something that we as players would consider a natural beauty.  Maybe a scenic vista during an aurora.  or simple things like a rainbow over the waterfalls or a sunrise/sunsets from a certain location. 

Certain rewarding actions like catching a big fish or finding a cache or sewing ten garments in a row without fail could also relieve stress.  

Mental well being is a great topic.

Edited May 30, 2019 by Ice Hole

[UpUpAway95]

Only if they include "sprain-related pain killer addiction" in the array of pre-existing conditions. 🤐

[Guest kristaok]

I actually don't think this would be a good idea... the point of RPing is to put your own emotions and feelings into whom you are playing as. I mean yes personally I hate killing Rabbits, but in this situation I would do what I gotta do. So adding these emotions to me is silly especially in a Survival Scenario, so I am sorry but it's a NO from me. 

[ThePancakeLady]

I would love to see Hinterland expand upon the Mental Health and Wellbeing system but have reservations. I think the Well-Fed buff may be another step toward building that system. But I can also understand why it may be very difficult to balance it, and make it work well, without potentially alienating players who do have differing opinions on what good Mental Health is, how it is defined and how it works in the game (and in IRL). If doing something they enjoy in game is determined to be "bad" for MH & W, but doing something they do not enjoy is defined as being something they should be doing to stay "sane"... what impact will that have on their enjoyment of the game? I love Don;t Starve, but don;t play it well, because the MH system in it confounds me, constantly, and makes me often quit in frustration. My daughter with her Aspergers may define good MH one way, my Godson with his Downs may define it another way, I may define it a totally different way when i am struggling with Depression or stress, while a friend with Bi-Polar Disorder may be completely confused by it, depending on what phase they are in, on any given day. 

 

It feels like they have explored it more in Wintermute, the choices you must make, especially with Hobbs, for example. And perhaps that is the best place for them to "test" a MH system, and see how players in Wintermute react to it.

 

A good MH & W system is one of the trickiest things in a video game, I think. So, I can see why they have not gone full throttle into just adding these things in, and trying to make the game as enjoyable for as many different people, with many different personalities, as possible.

[Guest Kane Parry]

9 minutes ago, ThePancakeLady said:

I would love to see Hinterland expand upon the Mental Health and Wellbeing system but have reservations. I think the Well-Fed buff may be another step toward building that system. But I can also understand why it may be very difficult to balance it, and make it work well, without potentially alienating players who do have differing opinions on what good Mental Health is, how it is defined and how it works in the game (and in IRL). If doing something they enjoy in game is determined to be "bad" for MH & W, but doing something they do not enjoy is defined as being something they should be doing to stay "sane"... what impact will that have on their enjoyment of the game? I love Don;t Starve, but don;t play it well, because the MH system in it confounds me, constantly, and makes me often quit in frustration. My daughter with her Aspergers may define good MH one way, my Godson with his Downs may define it another way, I may define it a totally different way when i am struggling with Depression or stress, while a friend with Bi-Polar Disorder may be completely confused by it, depending on what phase they are in, on any given day. 

 

It feels like they have explored it more in Wintermute, the choices you must make, especially with Hobbs, for example. And perhaps that is the best place for them to "test" a MH system, and see how players in Wintermute react to it.

 

A good MH & W system is one of the trickiest things in a video game, I think. So, I can see why they have not gone full throttle into just adding these things in, and trying to make the game as enjoyable for as many different people, with many different personalities, as possible.

Or it could be a optional extra in a game

[Ice Hole]

1 hour ago, ThePancakeLady said:

If doing something they enjoy in game is determined to be "bad" for MH & W, but doing something they do not enjoy is defined as being something they should be doing to stay "sane"

Totally agree with this point.  The MHW system should never punish or reward a player for their actions.  Nature does not care about our state of mind. 

The scale cannot be linear with neutral in the middle and values going positive or negative.  The scale for MHW needs to have the neutral area in the centre of a circle.  Actions push out towards the perimeter which then causes a change in mental health.  The change in MHW then affects all players in the same fashion.

What theses actions are and the changes to MHW are still unknown to me.  Further discussion on this topic can reveal what actions cause the type of changes to mental health.

Edited May 31, 2019 by Ice Hole

[ThePancakeLady]

4 hours ago, Kane Parry said:

Or it could be a optional extra in a game

Well, Cabin Fever is already able to be turned off in Custom Settings , Well Fed is not. To be fair, both negative and positives would need to be turned off at the same time to make this effective. Or why bother, if a good number of players would always turn off any negative events that affect MH & W. Kind of makes fleshing out a larger system pointless, from the POV of the time and effort it would cost the devs.

2 hours ago, Ice Hole said:

Totally agree with this point.  The MHW system should never punish or reward a player for their actions.  Nature does not care about our state of mind. 

The scale cannot be linear with neutral in the middle and values going positive or negative.  The scale for MHW needs to have the neutral area in the centre of a circle.  Actions push out towards the perimeter which then causes a change in mental health.  The change in MHW then affects all players in the same fashion.

 

Agreed, and I like the idea of the circular progression, rather than a hard linear one. But, how to achieve such a complex system without "turning off" a potentially large number of players who like the game as it is now, without a larger MH & W system? What are some things that are *almost* certain to be universally seen as benefiting your MH & W, or harming it? That, I think, is the toughest part. The Don;t Starve system is a bit ridiculous, but that game is a bit ridiculous in nature (not in a bad way... the weirdness is part of its charm for me...). But trying to figure out how to stay "sane" in it, without spending hours looking at the Wiki to see what helps and what hurts... the system in that game is one of the reasons I do not play it more. I love the humor, but trying to keep sanity balanced while doing what needs to be done to survive... makes me a bit crazy at times, lol.

[MrsValkyrieCat]

Oki as a woman and as a nester (find a place and just stay there making my nest sort of speaking) If we had some sort of system to help us get cheerful and positive, like trinkets, pictures, making our nest cheerful and homey, sure.. in some ways.. but right now this game has so much moooore negatives then positives. your alone, you don't have any entertainment ( only your deck of card. ) yeah you can eat and get wellfeed and warm but thats more like covering basic needs then making you happy. I mean in RL you end up like the man in castaway having a ball as your bestie.  Your only goal is to stay alive.. and in RL well we don't just stay alive we Live..  But this is a lovely game.. its not always logical, theres always something we wish were different like in every other game.. anyways.. have a good day  

[ManicManiac]

I'm not sure how well this kind of thing would fit into this game.  I mean for a Lovecraftian / cosmic horror type game, a sanity meter works fine as a core gameplay mechanic... but I'm not sure how well I would like something like that in this game.

I know for a while there was an idea about having something like a photograph or some kind of personal belonging that was meant to give kind of a "will to live" buff or something to that effect.  That the more you used it the quicker it would get worn out... but I think that idea went to the wayside a few years ago.

We do have the cabin fever affliction, but that is an arbitrary condition dependent solely on time spend inside vs. outside (the specifics are not important so I'm skipping them here).  Even with that, there are no mitigating factors at all... it's a firm metric.  Something like a "mental health" or "morale" mechanic would take a lot of nuance to keep it from feeling like a negative consequence instead of just part of the human condition that it truly is...

 

Edited May 31, 2019 by ManicManiac

[Guest kristaok]

I struggle with Mental Health issues daily, so I play Games like The Long Dark to actually get away from my struggles. So with that being said, why would I want to be faced with them every time I boot a Game up? - I have played a Game before that had a silly Sanity Meter, it REALLY bothered me! in the Game I believe you would hear voices and hallucinate, I hated it! - Trust me, for people like me we don't find these little additions "fun". If this were to ever be even on the radar for being added, it should only be added as an option through Paid DLC, or through a Mod. 

[Mroz4k]

Dont re,ally spend much time here anymore, but this is something that caught my attention.

I have nothing against this discussion, but beside the general term "sanity and what it might be in TLD" - I dont see much of a "suggestion" in here. No specifics. Kinda hard to put my opinion on the actual idea.

As for the concept - as it was already said here, this could be very, very controversial to people. First place to start with making this idea better would be a change of name. We still live (sadly) in a society where mental health is ultimately perceived negatively, calling it that way would contribute to negative feelings for this mechanic, and also for the game. Another term "sanity" is not much better.

I made a concept like this in the past (well, I explained it very broadly, I never spent much time trying to balance it out, so if you do read it, keep that in mind, I dont actually suggest the "numbers" I wrote in there, that part needs to be carefuly considered), and I called it Morale. This is the best, neutral term we can use for this type of mechanic.

I am not a huge fan of the Sanity meter in Dont Starve, I will admit I enjoyed the game more before that need was added. That said, it fits into that game due to it horrorish nature. It does not fit The Long Dark. The last thing I would like to see is some mechanic where you would lose your mind and start seeing hallucinations or some such. For me, the idea for "sanity/morale" concept is that it should be very subtle, but ultimately very important, and if neglected, very deadly. 

This was a general concept I made for a new need called "morale" which was an idea on how to combat the Hibernation tactic in TLD. This was before Well Fed bonus, which is a nice extra boost, but does not ultimately deter people from hibernation, just rewards them for not using it. It would need some balancing, but I think it could make the game better, push the players to keep their needs up, take their injuries and illnesses more seriously, and most notably, have a very realistic Cabin Fever affliction which would not drive miserable survivors out of their shelter outside, nor push out players who are actively crafting or reading or doing other tasks indoors that would realistically prevent cabin fever from kicking in.

But I am hardly against any kind of concept that would mimic mental health issues, as for people who have these conditions, seeing it in the game could be perceived as mockery. 

 

 

 

1

On 5/31/2019 at 12:41 AM, Ice Hole said:

The idea of a mental well being system was discussed long ago on the roadmap.  It could still be upcoming.  The reason I think it might show up eventually is because we have the ability to release rabbits but before releasing the rabbit our character pets it on the head.

Quote from the Roadmaps:

Quote

• Wellbeing system (i.e. mental/emotional cost of survival; “willpower locket” fits in here)

I doubt this is what we will ever see in TLD. The lockets were a backer-only item, if they served an actual boost for the game, I have a feeling a lot of players would be very unhappy with it, saying that the game uplifts the backers compared to regular players. The release of a rabbit already serves a purpose in the game, so you have a choice between killing a rabbit and sparing it, I would not look any harder into it. I think it would be a nice touch if releasing the rabbits did boost a morale a little bit, but I would not consider that to be an indication of some future sanity mechanic, it already serves a purpose in the game, it gives people a choice.

For the roadmaps in general: Keep in mind that tons of the suggested stuff in there are most likely never going to ever be added - things like gunsmithing, spring-to-winter weather changes, horse and cannoe traveling, fast travel mechanic etc. And these short term goals that were eventually added have been added over the course of last 3 years. There is a reason Hinterland removed Roadmaps, people were relying on them way too much.
 

 

On 5/31/2019 at 2:41 PM, Kane Parry said:

Or it could be a optional extra in a game

No, please no. For a game like TLD, which has very sparse updates over a long period of time, this is not a good idea. Anything that they could add into the game which would be for "everyone" is instantly much better development project choice than any kind of an idea that would be only for a part of the community. Either it is for everyone, or it should be put aside and then let go off as a "mod" project for someone once the modding support is added.

[Fuarian]

I don't know why. But I would actually enjoy this

[ajb1978]

In my opinion the best way to implement well being would be to take into account how frequently you suffer afflictions or suffer condition loss.  A combination of cabin fever, and well fed.  Similar to CF, if over the past 6 days, you've spent most of the time with condition loss or an affliction, your character's attitude becomes negative, and condition recovers 50% slower.  If you make it 3 days without suffering condition loss or a negative affliction, your character's attitude becomes positive, and condition recovers 50% faster.  Suffering an affliction or condition loss ends your positive attitude, but doesn't immediately make it negative. You just return to baseline.

So there becomes an incentive to take care of your survivor, but the game is still playable if you choose to ignore it.

[UpUpAway95]

1 hour ago, ajb1978 said:

In my opinion the best way to implement well being would be to take into account how frequently you suffer afflictions or suffer condition loss.  A combination of cabin fever, and well fed.  Similar to CF, if over the past 6 days, you've spent most of the time with condition loss or an affliction, your character's attitude becomes negative, and condition recovers 50% slower.  If you make it 3 days without suffering condition loss or a negative affliction, your character's attitude becomes positive, and condition recovers 50% faster.  Suffering an affliction or condition loss ends your positive attitude, but doesn't immediately make it negative. You just return to baseline.

So there becomes an incentive to take care of your survivor, but the game is still playable if you choose to ignore it.

I'd be more in favor of something like this for sure.

[Ghosty 1944]

I have been living in lonely light house for 45+ days and im not sure if it's the wind or not but I heard moans in the night.... Maybe it is the ghost of Sean... Or maybe im crazy... Ether way mental health would be cool.

 

[Guest kristaok]

@Ghosty 1944 The ghost of sean? who is that?

[stratvox]

If you read the note in the lighthouse, you'll see that Sean didn't wake up one morning.

 

[cranny]

𝐘𝐄𝐄𝐄
 

[ThePancakeLady]

6 minutes ago, cranny said:

𝐘𝐄𝐄𝐄
 

Lol! My kids have tried to explain what "Yee" means to me, I still have no clue what is being said. 

[cranny]

 

[cranny]

6 minutes ago, cranny said:

 

 

8 minutes ago, ThePancakeLady said:

Lol! My kids have tried to explain what "Yee" means to me, I still have no clue what is being said. 

 

[ThePancakeLady]

Knew of the source of the meme, but still don't get it, but it is perhaps fitting that it is here, in a discussion about a metal health meter? Perhaps I am just too old to get these crazy things you kids say?

[Ghosty 1944]

13 hours ago, cranny said:

 

... I am a young adult... And I still don't understand this.

[Ghosty 1944]

I mean what happened to the times when everyone would take Walkmans every where and listen to rolling stones or ELO or hell even earth wind and fire? But now in 2019 "YEE"?(I was not born in the 70s-80s but I still enjoy the music)