Please Change Death During Sleep

[Comfy]

This is such a bad mechanic. I have over 220 hours in this game, and have recently started in on Interloper. However, I think I've just about had it with dying in my sleep for no discernible reason. It ruins my immersion to suddenly die with no warning. It rips me right out and reminds me that I'm just playing a game and that sometimes it wants to artificially punished me. This has already happened a few times, but most recently I staggered into the Lighthouse on DP with 5%, struggled up the stairs to the bed, ate 1200 calories worth of cooked rabbit, drank an herbal tea, filled the rest of the bar with water, and then climbed into my +3 C warm bed for some much needed shut eye and heal up my sprained wrist. Watched the bars slowly start to fill up and leaned back with a smile.
GAME OVER. RUN FINISHED.
Suddenly dying when you do everything right is not "part of the challenge" it is just punishing RNG that doesn't need to be there. In other game modes you at least wake up if something is going wrong, but what am I supposed to do with dying randomly in the middle of the night? Did a window break in the lighthouse for it to suddenly drop -5 C without reason? Did my character suffer a cardiac arrest of the stress of being hunted by wolves all day? Did my character roll around too much in their sleep and choke themselves to death with their bedsheets? WHO KNOWS?

This is such a bad mechanic and it is such a turnoff for this otherwise really fun mode that I WANT to enjoy. If there are some masochists who really enjoy rolling dice to see if they randomly die anytime they shut their eyes, throw that on as optional setting when setting up the game. 

[conanjaguar]

@Comfy

I’m pretty sure that this is a bug, not an intended feature. I have fallen victim to it ONCE in by now 300+ hours of play, and like you, I was in very low condition and sleeping when it happened.

Maybe it has something to do with the game not immediately detecting the bed warmth boost when you sleep in negative ambient temperature? Below is my experience with it, which would seem to lend credence to my hypothesis.

Quote

How?! Even with the torch out, it was flt of -2C inside, and the bed gave a warmth bonus of +5C! I should have been warming up, but nooo. Instead, I had to freeze to death. Ironic isn’t it, that I should survive the perils of TWM, only to die in the very shelter I sought. 

[Retro Seamstress]

Welcome to Interloper.  One of the first things I learnt on Interloper is not to sleep for long periods unless you're really sure you won't freeze. Especially in the early part of a game when you don't have much in the way of warm clothing and being indoors isn't guaranteed to be above freezing. Temperature usually drops overnight and in the early morning. You also need to be careful of sleeping with certain afflictions. Did you have hypothermia (not just hypothermia risk)? If so, that doubles the condition lost from freezing from 20% to 40% per hour. Clothing that is wet or frozen reduces its warmth bonus. Wearing frozen gear increases frostbite risk, even when the "feels like" temp is above 0%. 

It's part of the challenge of Interloper. I froze to death a LOT when I first started playing Interloper. It gets easier with practice. You can always choose to do custom settings. I think there is a setting for "wake player up when freezing". You could select Interloper as the base setting and then just change that one. 

[Enigmaecho]

2 hours ago, Retro Seamstress said:

Welcome to Interloper.  One of the first things I learnt on Interloper is not to sleep for long periods unless you're really sure you won't freeze. Especially in the early part of a game when you don't have much in the way of warm clothing and being indoors isn't guaranteed to be above freezing. Temperature usually drops overnight and in the early morning. You also need to be careful of sleeping with certain afflictions. Did you have hypothermia (not just hypothermia risk)? If so, that doubles the condition lost from freezing from 20% to 40% per hour. Clothing that is wet or frozen reduces its warmth bonus. Wearing frozen gear increases frostbite risk, even when the "feels like" temp is above 0%. 

It's part of the challenge of Interloper. I froze to death a LOT when I first started playing Interloper. It gets easier with practice. You can always choose to do custom settings. I think there is a setting for "wake player up when freezing". You could select Interloper as the base setting and then just change that one. 

This isn’t even an interloper threat, it can happen on any difficulty, my first death of my first successful run voyager I froze to death in the tail section with a fire going on day 180 because a blizzard set in and it overcame the fire temp or guess wind shifted and blew it out but I heard cackling flames at death, on pilgrim and voyager you do get a “wake if I’m freezing” but it only applies sleeping next to active fires, to the OP it’s demoralizing but a reminder not to take anything for granted in the game, coal is your best friend, and it’s better to sleep for 2 hrs at a time and heal less than risk not waking up, better luck next run 👍 

[Comfy]

10 hours ago, conanjaguar said:

@Comfy

I’m pretty sure that this is a bug, not an intended feature. I have fallen victim to it ONCE in by now 300+ hours of play, and like you, I was in very low condition and sleeping when it happened.

Maybe it has something to do with the game not immediately detecting the bed warmth boost when you sleep in negative ambient temperature? Below is my experience with it, which would seem to lend credence to my hypothesis.

If this is the case, then I would be really happy if it was addressed. I feel like I keep running into it, but maybe it's just because the amount of times I drop into the red and stumble into a bed is high. That being said, sleep is the only way to begin recovery, so it is such a key component of the game it needs to function in a clear manner.

9 hours ago, Retro Seamstress said:

Welcome to Interloper.  One of the first things I learnt on Interloper is not to sleep for long periods unless you're really sure you won't freeze. Especially in the early part of a game when you don't have much in the way of warm clothing and being indoors isn't guaranteed to be above freezing. Temperature usually drops overnight and in the early morning. You also need to be careful of sleeping with certain afflictions. Did you have hypothermia (not just hypothermia risk)? If so, that doubles the condition lost from freezing from 20% to 40% per hour. Clothing that is wet or frozen reduces its warmth bonus. Wearing frozen gear increases frostbite risk, even when the "feels like" temp is above 0%. 

It's part of the challenge of Interloper. I froze to death a LOT when I first started playing Interloper. It gets easier with practice. You can always choose to do custom settings. I think there is a setting for "wake player up when freezing". You could select Interloper as the base setting and then just change that one. 

I would like to say thank you for joining the topic, I see that you are looking to help and I am grateful that you said something when you could have just skipped on by. My only condition at the time was a sprained wrist, and no I didn't have much in the way of warm clothing, I was relying on the screen that told me going to sleep would keep me at a +3 C bonus. It is good to know that sleeping for very short intervals is a potential solution to this, but is that good for the overall atmosphere of the game? Is it more enjoyable to go through three different black screens just to get through a night? This just sounds so needlessly tedious to me. Do you enjoy that aspect of the game or do you just deal with it? It doesn't feel like I made a mistake, it feels like the game lied to me and punished me for trusting it.
I don't play on Custom settings because you get 0% feat progression, and I do want to get those feats. At this point, I would even be happy for a feat that you could swap on like "Light Sleeper" gained for peacefully sleeping 500 hours, you now wake up if a bar runs empty during sleep.

7 hours ago, Enigmaecho said:

This isn’t even an interloper threat, it can happen on any difficulty, my first death of my first successful run voyager I froze to death in the tail section with a fire going on day 180 because a blizzard set in and it overcame the fire temp or guess wind shifted and blew it out but I heard cackling flames at death, on pilgrim and voyager you do get a “wake if I’m freezing” but it only applies sleeping next to active fires, to the OP it’s demoralizing but a reminder not to take anything for granted in the game, coal is your best friend, and it’s better to sleep for 2 hrs at a time and heal less than risk not waking up, better luck next run 👍 

Outdoors anything can happen and you are taking your life into your own hands. I can get that. But INDOORS there should not be such massive fluctuations of temperature. And I appreciate the advice but this still sounds like coping to me when we could be petitioning for something better - is it fun for you having to go through 4 different black screens settling in for 2 hours at a time? Do you feel that adds more to the experience and immersion? Do you not lose the bonus of your herbal tea having to go through wonky mechanics like that also?

I understand that not everything in this game can be completely realistic, but having to go through 5 different power nap sessions, perfectly waking up in 2 hour intervals instead of just being able to sleep like a normal human being without an internal alarm clock feels... like I'm gaming a mechanic and it pulls me out of my immersion. No other game captures my complete immersion like the Long Dark, I actually shiver when I hear that wind whipping in the blizzard. But this solution just feels so silly to me when it doesn't have to be that way.

[James Hickok]

11 hours ago, Comfy said:

This is such a bad mechanic. I have over 220 hours in this game, and have recently started in on Interloper. However, I think I've just about had it with dying in my sleep for no discernible reason. It ruins my immersion to suddenly die with no warning. It rips me right out and reminds me that I'm just playing a game and that sometimes it wants to artificially punished me. This has already happened a few times, but most recently I staggered into the Lighthouse on DP with 5%, struggled up the stairs to the bed, ate 1200 calories worth of cooked rabbit, drank an herbal tea, filled the rest of the bar with water, and then climbed into my +3 C warm bed for some much needed shut eye and heal up my sprained wrist. Watched the bars slowly start to fill up and leaned back with a smile.
GAME OVER. RUN FINISHED.
Suddenly dying when you do everything right is not "part of the challenge" it is just punishing RNG that doesn't need to be there. In other game modes you at least wake up if something is going wrong, but what am I supposed to do with dying randomly in the middle of the night? Did a window break in the lighthouse for it to suddenly drop -5 C without reason? Did my character suffer a cardiac arrest of the stress of being hunted by wolves all day? Did my character roll around too much in their sleep and choke themselves to death with their bedsheets? WHO KNOWS?

This is such a bad mechanic and it is such a turnoff for this otherwise really fun mode that I WANT to enjoy. If there are some masochists who really enjoy rolling dice to see if they randomly die anytime they shut their eyes, throw that on as optional setting when setting up the game. 

Yeah welcome to interloper like @Retro Seamstress said. 

From what i read from Your post it seems like you just froze to death during sleep. Max sleep time on Interloper is 10 hours bcoz you get thirsty after 10 hours an need drink. You absolutely shouldnt sleep in 10 hour incriments if outside or in a cave or even an interior if You dont have good warmth bonus yet. Im talking about at least 23+ degrees to be safe and even with 28 degrees you can get cold for a bit especially in the morning.  You went to sleep and it was +3 degrees BUT during that sleep the temperature dropped (like i said especially in the last part of the night and morning) and you froze to death. Why You didnt wake up - i think that the mechanic is accurate to the bone - when people freeze to death IRL they get sleepy and just fall asleep and die. Same thing if you are sleeping and the temp drops while you sleep - you dont feel nothing or wake up, you just never wake up. 

So dont be mad, interloper is diffrent than other modes and requires a diffrent playstyle - you will learn it and love it. As much as i respect players that choose lower difficulty when i learned to play interloper (played voyager before) i never got back to lower modes - its just not that fun for me anymore. 

 

Edited August 9, 2023 by James Hickok

[James Hickok]

16 minutes ago, Comfy said:

I understand that not everything in this game can be completely realistic, but having to go through 5 different power nap sessions, perfectly waking up in 2 hour intervals instead of just being able to sleep like a normal human being without an internal alarm clock feels... like I'm gaming a mechanic and it pulls me out of my immersion. No other game captures my complete immersion like the Long Dark, I actually shiver when I hear that wind whipping in the blizzard. But this solution just feels so silly to me when it doesn't have to be that way.

This only happens on the start of the game. When you craft Your bow, start hunting and craft clothes like improved bedroll, insulation, bear coats, deer pants, rabbit gloves and hat you will be able to sleep 10 hours no problem in caves and interiors. The first 30 days you have to keep mind about how or where you  sleep, After that if its not open sky you can sleep 10 hours noo problem. I have 30 degrees (if everything on 100% i think its even 31 after they introduced insulation) warmth bonus on my Interloper Astrid (2x pilot hat, rabbit gloves, 2x hockey shirt, 2x bear coat, 2x deer pants, deer boots, 2x thermal underwear, 2x wool socks, 1x insulation). I can walk during the evening in PV or Blackrock without getting cold what so ever holding 1,2,3 or even 6 degrees warmth without a fire or torch. 

Edited August 9, 2023 by James Hickok

[ManicManiac]

It seems there might have been something you may not have taken into account... or as another suggested perhaps you're getting hit by a glitch.  I've been playing for about 9 years, and I've never had anything like what you describe happen to me.

Any time I've died in my sleep (admittedly it's been a long while I have) it was due to me either not accounting for temperature drops... or forgetting to dress a wound... or forgetting to take antibiotics after getting food poisoning.  Point is, all those deaths were absolutely deserved.  So, unless you're getting hit by a bug... there's likely something going on that wasn't accounted for.

Edited August 9, 2023 by ManicManiac

[Enigmaecho]

2 hours ago, Comfy said:

If this is the case, then I would be really happy if it was addressed. I feel like I keep running into it, but maybe it's just because the amount of times I drop into the red and stumble into a bed is high. That being said, sleep is the only way to begin recovery, so it is such a key component of the game it needs to function in a clear manner.

I would like to say thank you for joining the topic, I see that you are looking to help and I am grateful that you said something when you could have just skipped on by. My only condition at the time was a sprained wrist, and no I didn't have much in the way of warm clothing, I was relying on the screen that told me going to sleep would keep me at a +3 C bonus. It is good to know that sleeping for very short intervals is a potential solution to this, but is that good for the overall atmosphere of the game? Is it more enjoyable to go through three different black screens just to get through a night? This just sounds so needlessly tedious to me. Do you enjoy that aspect of the game or do you just deal with it? It doesn't feel like I made a mistake, it feels like the game lied to me and punished me for trusting it.
I don't play on Custom settings because you get 0% feat progression, and I do want to get those feats. At this point, I would even be happy for a feat that you could swap on like "Light Sleeper" gained for peacefully sleeping 500 hours, you now wake up if a bar runs empty during sleep.

Outdoors anything can happen and you are taking your life into your own hands. I can get that. But INDOORS there should not be such massive fluctuations of temperature. And I appreciate the advice but this still sounds like coping to me when we could be petitioning for something better - is it fun for you having to go through 4 different black screens settling in for 2 hours at a time? Do you feel that adds more to the experience and immersion? Do you not lose the bonus of your herbal tea having to go through wonky mechanics like that also?

I understand that not everything in this game can be completely realistic, but having to go through 5 different power nap sessions, perfectly waking up in 2 hour intervals instead of just being able to sleep like a normal human being without an internal alarm clock feels... like I'm gaming a mechanic and it pulls me out of my immersion. No other game captures my complete immersion like the Long Dark, I actually shiver when I hear that wind whipping in the blizzard. But this solution just feels so silly to me when it doesn't have to be that way.

The temperature shift indoors isn’t unrealistic if you’ve ever lived somewhere with bad winters you’d be well aware how sharply indoor temps can drop even with heat. We aren’t petitioning for change because it’s not an immersion breaking mechanic, if you want easy make a custom and turn the weather to low cold over time to low wine variability to low and fire prevents freezing I say the same thing to interlopers that feel the game is too easy because resources are too much we have so much agency over how our particular run goes there’s no need to bother the studio to ask for them to cater to a specific players wants like less resources or this suggestion of eliminating a core mechanic 

[xanna]

No idea if this applies to you or if it was a bug for you as it has been for others, but there was an interesting discussion of safe sleeping intervals here:
 

To be clear, the purpose of setting a low sleep time is not to wake up and immediately sleep again to get through the night, it's to wake up and check the temperatures are still safe because they can vary so much, and then light a fire if necessary and then go back to sleep.

[Looper]

15 hours ago, Comfy said:

This is such a bad mechanic. I have over 220 hours in this game, and have recently started in on Interloper. However, I think I've just about had it with dying in my sleep for no discernible reason. It ruins my immersion to suddenly die with no warning. It rips me right out and reminds me that I'm just playing a game and that sometimes it wants to artificially punished me. This has already happened a few times, but most recently I staggered into the Lighthouse on DP with 5%, struggled up the stairs to the bed, ate 1200 calories worth of cooked rabbit, drank an herbal tea, filled the rest of the bar with water, and then climbed into my +3 C warm bed for some much needed shut eye and heal up my sprained wrist. Watched the bars slowly start to fill up and leaned back with a smile.
GAME OVER. RUN FINISHED.
Suddenly dying when you do everything right is not "part of the challenge" it is just punishing RNG that doesn't need to be there. In other game modes you at least wake up if something is going wrong, but what am I supposed to do with dying randomly in the middle of the night? Did a window break in the lighthouse for it to suddenly drop -5 C without reason? Did my character suffer a cardiac arrest of the stress of being hunted by wolves all day? Did my character roll around too much in their sleep and choke themselves to death with their bedsheets? WHO KNOWS?

This is such a bad mechanic and it is such a turnoff for this otherwise really fun mode that I WANT to enjoy. If there are some masochists who really enjoy rolling dice to see if they randomly die anytime they shut their eyes, throw that on as optional setting when setting up the game. 

What did the game say you died from?

You can't die unless you messed something up. Thirst, food or temp. +3 c means it ADD 3 C to your temp. but if you are minus 5 c then your stille -2. 

No need to change anything. 

[hozz1235]

If you don't want to do Custom due to feat progression, I would recommend a lower difficulty.  There is no shame in this.  The game should be enjoyable!  Make whatever modifications you need to to make it so.

[Retro Seamstress]

13 hours ago, Comfy said:

I was relying on the screen that told me going to sleep would keep me at a +3 C bonus. It is good to know that sleeping for very short intervals is a potential solution to this, but is that good for the overall atmosphere of the game? Is it more enjoyable to go through three different black screens just to get through a night? This just sounds so needlessly tedious to me. Do you enjoy that aspect of the game or do you just deal with it? It doesn't feel like I made a mistake, it feels like the game lied to me and punished me for trusting it.

I like that the game keeps me on my toes. To answer your question, I don't feel it breaks my immersion. It's forcing me to think strategically about how to survive and take into consideration things like the temperature drop at night, even indoors. The game didn't lie to you, you assumed the indoor temperature would remain the same. Whenever you go to sleep, it shows you what the temperature feels like right now, and any bonus that may apply. It doesn't mean that the temperature will stay like that over however many hours you sleep. It's only an issue if your "feels like" temperature is already very low. And as others have said, mainly an issue in the early part of a game. Once you're able to make warmer gear you don't need to worry about it so much. 

My first attempts at Interloper ended with a lot of frustration. It took me a lot of attempts to just get the "survived 1 day on Interloper" achievement. After all those bad starts, I took a step back and reassessed my approach. My problem was that I was still playing like I had on Stalker, where you don't have to think about a fire starting source or bed roll when you start. Resources are more abundant, higher tier clothing, tools, weapons, are available. And the weather isn't as cold (thought there are more wolves). I also had only explored half the maps, so often my Interloper starts were spent running around completely lost. I decided to do the Faithful Cartographer challenge on Stalker to familiarise myself with maps. I achieved several of the feats, like Cold Fusion, Efficient Machine, and Snow Walker, which are very helpful for an Interloper run. I also watched videos of experienced Interloper players and took note of their key tips (using torches to light fires to conserve matches, using teas to warm up, learning you can use a snow shelter as a bed if you don't have a bedroll).  When I decided to try Interloper again, I was more strategic. I would figure out where I'd spawned and pause to think about where I wanted to go. Where might there be a match spawn? Where is the nearest sheltered location? Where is the nearest bed? Is there a cabin/trailer near with curtains that I can rip into cloth so I can make a snow shelter and hand/head coverings if I find a sewing kit/fishing tackle?

Like anything, it gets easier with practice. 

[Mistral]

TBH all interiors should have changeable temperatures like in real life, and they should be much, much colder. You shouldn't be able to take current luxury beauty sleeps anyway. Our own cottage, in the North in winter, is often way colder inside than it is in the outdoors.

[Serenity]

The interior temps in indoor locations is generally constant. The exception is some open areas like the front of the Maintenance Yard in BR. Otherwise what happens outside really doesn't matter. I've always slept through in the early game and never died. Short of a bug that should only happen if some buff like warming up or extra condition wears off.

The sleeping in intervals thing is only something you need to do outdoors, and even then many people overdo it. At least in warmer regions with the best clothing.

Edited August 10, 2023 by Serenity

[Enigmaecho]

6 hours ago, Mistral said:

TBH all interiors should have changeable temperatures like in real life, and they should be much, much colder. You shouldn't be able to take current luxury beauty sleeps anyway. Our own cottage, in the North in winter, is often way colder inside than it is in the outdoors.

My thoughts as well, outside -16 feels like, enter a house abandoned for months  56° feels like 😂 not that I’m complaining I also live in an old stone house that turns into an ice chest in winter. Caves are probably the most egregious perpetrators, 20ft into a cave the temperature goes up 40 degrees 

Edited August 10, 2023 by Enigmaecho
Context

[hozz1235]

7 hours ago, Mistral said:

 Our own cottage, in the North in winter, is often way colder inside than it is in the outdoors.

For the most part, inside locations will be warmer that outside.

Edited August 10, 2023 by hozz1235

[Mistral]

16 hours ago, hozz1235 said:

For the most part, inside locations will be warmer that outside.

That might be true for larger, better insulated and more modern buildings, but for smaller simple cottages (majority of indoor locations in TLD) or buildings made out of stone etc it will be colder. Our place in the winter was usually -15 to -20 celcius inside, even if it was only -10 outside, and it took hours and hours to heat up properly with fire on.

Also, no building in the world will have constant static temperature on it's own without heating (or cooling), as in TLD, it will change with the outside.

Edited August 11, 2023 by Mistral

[Cattleman]

I would say a temperature drop while you were aleeping is what got you... And perfectly realistic.

 

IRL I heat my home with a wood burning stove, very similar to the one in Trappers Homestead. I keep the main room with the stove in my house around 75° to 85° F during the winter. I have forgotten to stoke the fire a few times before going to bed in the past... And woke up the next morning to inside temperatures in the 10° to 25° F range and completely frozen pipes... Thats in a modern very well insulated house.

 

If one was to go to sleep with temperatures just above freezing it wouldnt be very difficult for temos to drop WELL below 0° F through the night... Especially in a cave, old cabin, or summer camping shack.

Edited August 12, 2023 by Cattleman
Typo

[hozz1235]

On 8/10/2023 at 10:46 PM, Mistral said:

That might be true for larger, better insulated and more modern buildings, but for smaller simple cottages (majority of indoor locations in TLD) or buildings made out of stone etc it will be colder. Our place in the winter was usually -15 to -20 celcius inside, even if it was only -10 outside, and it took hours and hours to heat up properly with fire on.

Also, no building in the world will have constant static temperature on it's own without heating (or cooling), as in TLD, it will change with the outside.

Put simply, a building's temperature will rise and fall with the outside temperature.  More insulation just means it will take longer to adjust to the current outside temp.

[Mistral]

10 hours ago, hozz1235 said:

Put simply, a building's temperature will rise and fall with the outside temperature.  More insulation just means it will take longer to adjust to the current outside temp.

Yes

[stratvox]

I have long thought that a mode where the temps in inside locations vary with the outside temps would be a great addition to the game. Make the indoor locations like caves in that they're +x to ambient temp, and run the weather simulator to determine temperature while the player is indoors, but I don't think that's a massive weight on computation for this game. Would make houses that have stoves/fireplaces/barrels much more valuable compared to those without. 

This would mean that (for example) fan faves like Jackrabbit Island and Misanthrope's would get seriously nerfed, but then again a late game player would still be able to use them successfully as shelter during a blizzard.

While at it... most if not all of the buildings in the game have "burned out" versions of themselves; allow for the possibility that a building can burn because of a player running the fireplace. I've also thought that maintaining the stove/fireplace etc to prevent a chimney fire from taking out the building would be a possibly good mechanic for this.

[Stone]

Sorry about the untimely death. Does sound like the temperature dropped while sleeping. Gotta be real careful about that. Keep in mind that sleeping in short bursts is just as good for the 'awake' bar as long sleeps - you only improve your condition at a higher rate the longer you sleep. Just be careful with colder locations. That lighthouse is freezing!

Edited August 21, 2023 by Stone
Typo

[mfuegemann]

Nice places to freeze are Mountaineers Hut in TWM and the caves in the Ravine. If a blizzard hits with -40C, You need a coal fire.