Can we talk about caves?

[metlman72]

Are they safe to set up as a temp base for a few days? Or even a more permanent base? Can bears shelter in any cave? Can wolves enter or follow you into a cave?

This is my temp camp in Pleasant Valley right now. I dont want to wake up to a bear at the foot of the bed roll. For reference it is located by Three Strikes Farmstead. 

[Serenity]

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Are they safe to set up as a temp base for a few days? Or even a more permanent base?

If you have decent clothing yes. If you have bad clothing you may be just too cold during the coldest part of the night. If you're unsure then sleep in two hour increments, which also teaches you how the temperature drops during the night. Just be aware that you don't get as much condition that way. But with high end clothing you can sleep through everything

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Can wolves enter or follow you into a cave?

Yes

As for bears. Only sleep in bear caves if you killed the previous owner

Edited February 15, 2021 by Serenity

[ManicManiac]

@metlman72

Most caves have a significantly warmer "indoor" area (the back portion of the cave).

The "outdoor" area (or front portion) is also good for taking advantage of outdoor fire duration bonuses (provided by the Fire Starting skill).  Meaning that if you have a good enough supply of sticks/wood/coal you can keep a very warm fire going.  Also once inside the cave, your campfire is fully protected from the wind.

I'd say that caves are great for long term encampments... as with anything in this game, the player just needs to be a little prepared.

Speaking of bears... Bear dens are marked by the presence of bone piles.  If there is no pile of bones in the front of the cave, then there is little worry about bears dropping by.  As a rule of thumb, just don't camp in a bear den.

Wolves will follow you into caves (if they are stalking you), yes.  So, just don't go to your cave if you have a wolf stalking you, or you'll likely get boxed in.

Also... with the addition of Rock Caches, we can even install some convenient storage for cave encampments. 

Edited February 15, 2021 by ManicManiac

[Stinky socks]

I saw a deer casually walk out of the cave as I was approaching, so I believe wolves may be able to walk in as well.

I camped out in a bear cave a fee times because I didn't know, but was lucky enough to walk out of it.

Making a bear bedroll keeps bears from attacking you I've read somewhere and they are also warm! Absolutely worth it!

[Dr. S.]

Caves are one of my favorite places to live. You can absolutely live for days on end in caves, in any region, except the bogus regions that don't have any caves 😪.

As noted above, wolves can come into caves and attack you, as can bears. I've been attacked by a bear in a non-bear cave before. Not sure what caused it to wander into the cave. I was cooking and might have had some scented items in my inventory.

[WillemD]

15 hours ago, Stinky socks said:

Making a bear bedroll keeps bears from attacking

I don't think that's true. From what I remember, a bearskin bedroll has a chance (not a guarantee) to make a wolf flee when they come near you. I'm pretty sure a bear will attack you when you are sleeping inside a bearskin bedroll.

That said, the bearskin bedroll is very handy when you set up base inside a cave. The extra warmth can be essential to keep you from freezing, and you also recover condition more than a normal bedroll.

One very important thing when living in a cave is to make sure you drop all smelly stuff (meat, fresh guts) ASAP when you get home. This also applies to cooking sessions. While wolves and bears don't go into caves by themselves, they will come pay you a visit when they are lured there by smell.

Cooking stuff is not a problem, just make sure you don't have any cooked or uncooked meat in you inventory. This also applies to when you are picking stuff up with right mouse button, you are stinky while you are holding the meat. So when you are moving around a lot of meat, and have a piece of meat in your hand 80% of the time, you will attract predators.

And if all fails, have your flare gun ready.

Edited February 16, 2021 by WillemD

[hozz1235]

In addition to what others I have said, EVERY time I sleep in a cave, I crouch before sleeping.  I've actually slept in a vacant bear cave before, woke up in the morning (still crouched) with a snuggly companion quite close to me sleeping in his cave.  I quietly drew my bow, nocked an arrow and got a clean head shot.

[metlman72]

On 2/16/2021 at 3:36 AM, WillemD said:

One very important thing when living in a cave is to make sure you drop all smelly stuff (meat, fresh guts) ASAP when you get home. This also applies to cooking sessions. While wolves and bears don't go into caves by themselves, they will come pay you a visit when they are lured there by smell.

I drop all smelly stuff as soon as I get back to my cave. As a rule I usually keep all meat (cooked or non cooked) right outside the cave opening on the left or right side depending.

I try to cook all raw meat when I return if possible. 

Edited March 1, 2021 by metlman72

[Stinky socks]

But raw meat in itself does not attract predators. It gets 'activated' when it is inside you or if you drop it as >decoy<

[darkscaryforest]

I was concerned about freezing to death at the back of the cave in interloper, especially due to blizzards but to quote @jeffpeng

On 10/15/2020 at 6:41 AM, jeffpeng said:

Even when a blizzard starts in your sleep, the temperature drop will not apply until you wake up. Even better: if it ends before you wake up, you effectively dodged it. Also good to know: Temperature usually doesn't drop more than 1°C per hour. The coldest time of day is 5 am. @Drifter Manhad an interesting graph about that a long time ago, but I can't find it.

I suppose a good rule of thumb for testing the weather is seeing what your feels like (adding whatever bed roll bonus) is at 5am in your cave of choice for a few days, as I'm sure the temperature varies day to day. If it is say 2-3 degrees or more, you're probably safe to sleep whenever

Edited March 1, 2021 by darkscaryforest

[peteloud]

I am puzzled about caves and cabin fever.  Do you get cabin fever when in the warm area at the back of a cave or in mines?

 

[Dr. S.]

You definitely don’t get cabin fever from spending time in the back of a regular cave. That counts as outside for that purpose. 

I believe that you do in mines (and “inside” caves with loading screens).

TLD has several different ways that an area can be inside or outside. For example you can start campfires in caves with loading screens but not mines, which otherwise seem pretty much identical. OTOH you can also start campfires in some places that seem like they should be considered indoors, like the break room in the cannery in BI. 

[Guest jeffpeng]

It's a bit fuzzy what is inside and what's outside - and how much of it. For example: the Hut on TWM has no loading screen. Still it will give you cabin fever. However: it is calculated like the back of a cave - which it apparently still isn't. But: you can read at night as you would be able to in a cave that doesn't have a loading screen.

I think the underlying logic of all of this is no logic at all, actually. There simply are locations that are marked as posing the risk of cabin fever - and some do not. Some allow fires, some don't, and some only in some places (like some mines allow it at their mouths, but not anywhere else). Some allow reading, some don't. It's basically a flag for a region of coordinates that is either set or not.

Pseudo-Indoor places without a loading screen are affected by outside temperature, to which they have a bonus, but they do not suffer from "The world getting colder" as the outside does. So, to stick with the TWM hut, it will be barely warmer than the outside on day one, but considerably warmer than the outside on day 50 - since it doesn't get colder over time... but is still affected by the time of day.

As to

On 3/1/2021 at 10:13 PM, darkscaryforest said:

If it is say 2-3 degrees or more, you're probably safe to sleep whenever

If you want to sleep 6 hours, and it's before 5 am, you should have at least 6°C (already including your bedroll) on the meter to be totally safe. So, if your bedroll is at 80% and it's 2°C in the cave, sleeping for 6 hours will make you wake up with a full warmth bar. Sometimes it can be beneficial to stretch the margin a bit. With the same example: if you actually wanted so sleep 8 hours you'd still wake up fine, and without losing condition due to being cold. 1 hour at -1°C (-5+4) and 1 hour at -2°C (-6+4) will leave you at approximately 40% of warmth remaining when you wake up since you lose about 20% of warmth for each degrees below 0 of effective temperature per hour... I think. Correct me when I remember this wrong, but I'm pretty sure that's how it worked. I think this is affected by your difficulty, so it's probably even more forgiving on Stalker and Voyageur.

Contrarily: if it's before 5 pm the temperature will rise. So if your warmth is at 100%, but looking at the sleep window it says -2°C after factoring in you sleeping bag, you are still good to put in 4 hours of sleep, since you won't start to freeze until you the temperature actually goes above freezing.

This stuff you can combine to all sorts of scenarios. Like you want to sleep 8 hours, it's 1 am, your bag has 60% and it's -1°C. That means it's now effectively 2°C, 1°C at 2am and still 0°C at 3 am. But the next hours will be -1, -2, and -1 again. But since we know we lose about 20% per degree below zero per hour you will stop losing warmth at 7 am, and from then on even again gain warmth, gaining 20% at 8 and another 40% until you wake up at 9 am. So, you will wake up not fully warm (more like 80% ish), but without freezing damage.

But, keep in mind: temperature doesn't show decimals. If it says 2°C it might as well be 2.4°C or 1.5°C. So an additional degree of safety is advised. Also if recovery isn't paramount to you it might be better to sleep in short increments rather than in a big chunk. There is no "sleep" recovery penalty for sleeping 8 times 1 hour opposed to sleeping 8 hours in a row. But your condition recovery will be seriously hampered this way, so it depends on your actual needs.

And finally: only resort to these shenanigans if you really have to. Living a long and successful life on Great Bear usually is testament to avoiding unnecessary risks rather than playing the margins to the absolute maximum - because, chances are, at some point your calculations fail you, and then the situation you find yourself in usually is magnitudes worse than the one you tried to avoid in the first place by being smart with numbers. Trust me, I've been there. 😄

[Istvan82]

I spent like a week in the cave at TWM summit sorting loot, repairing gear and reading books, never got cabin fever. I took a bearskin bedroll just in case it could be too cold but I think a regular bedroll works just fine if you got decent clothing.

[Glflegolas]

Caves! Yes, they are indeed one of my favourite places to use as bases. My all time favourite cave to use as a base is, in fact, the southernmost entrance of the Ice Cave in Hushed River Valley. You literally never need a light source there because of the luminescent moss keeping the place well lit. Some of my other favourites include: Valley Cave and Lake Cave in Hushed River Valley (convenient locations), Island Cave in Bleak Inlet (good place from which to shoot timberwolves), Waterfall Cave in Timberwolf Mountain (excellent place to rest before climbing the summit), and Misty Falls Cave in Pleasant Valley (has lots of great loot and a secret room, and is warm).

One tip I have for you is: stay in caves that provide a warmth bonus if you can at all. Shallow caves block the wind, but you'll likely have to keep a fire burning all night if you don't want to freeze. You can tell if a cave counts as interior or not by your walk speed. If your character slows down for no apparent reason, it's because that cave has an interior.

I've personally never slept in a bear cave, I'd prefer not to be mauled in the middle of the night

I also don't generally stay in one spot for more than a few days, regardless of difficulty. I'm quite a nomad and like to explore. Spending three nights in the same location is a long time for me.

[Stinky socks]

33 minutes ago, Glflegolas said:

I've personally never slept in a bear cave, I'd prefer not to be mauled in the middle of the night

You get nice warmth bonus when he returns:)