Alcoholic beverages

[CSLooney]

I would figure that several inhabitants of the area would have left behind at least a little bit of alcohol. Maybe whiskey, rum, or something of that sort, and I would think that using this stuff would have some immediate positive effects while trying to survive. Of course, it would also have some pretty steep drawbacks in the near future after using of course.

 

Maybe when consumed it adds a small amount of calories, some thirst, and maybe 25% less damage to condition if attacked by wolves or bears, and you cause 25% more damage when struggling, but after the effects wear off it makes your thirst meter deplete 50% faster for a couple hours and severe headaches?

 

This may have been suggested in the past, but thought I'd throw it out there with the possible effects that kind of make sense within the context of the game.

[UpUpAway95]

Alchohol slows your reflexes and lessens your ability to divide your attention, which impedes your ability to react to sudden changes in your surroundings like a wolf leaping out and attacking you.  If anything, drinking alcohol should cause you to take more damage during an animal attack.

It also dilates blood vessels, leading to more rapid loss of body heat (even though you feel warmer than you are)... which would be a deadly consequence in this game.

Edited June 11, 2019 by UpUpAway95

[Guest kristaok]

I think we should have alcohol too, but sadly I doubt it will ever happen. 

Alcohol would be great for cleaning wounds, and diminishing the pain, along with helping have a restful good nights sleep. So yea I'm all for it!

[CSLooney]

56 minutes ago, UpUpAway95 said:

Alchohol slows your reflexes and lessens your ability to divide your attention, which impedes your ability to react to sudden changes in your surroundings like a wolf leaping out and attacking you.  If anything, drinking alcohol should cause you to take more damage during an animal attack.

It also dilates blood vessels, leading to more rapid loss of body heat (even though you feel warmer than you are)... which would be a deadly consequence in this game.

I know all this, in reality. But, in the context of a game, which makes it clear that this isn't a point for point simulation of true survival, alcohol working in the way I stated, or something similar might be a plausible effect. 

 

Let's be real. Several things you do in this game, you should NEVER EVER EVER do. I mean, take Reishi mushrooms for instance. If you pick a mushroom out in the wilderness, brew it up then drink it, there is a 50/50 chance you won't live through the night, however, in this game you pick mushrooms, you treat food poisoning. I know it's a bit different of an item, but it's the same basic concept. If you can wrap your mind around the way the game works, rather than the way it is in reality on things like that, it's not much different with such things like how alcohol might work in a game. 

[cranny]

yee. but maybe after too many this would be your character. 

 

 

[UpUpAway95]

12 minutes ago, CSLooney said:

I know all this, in reality. But, in the context of a game, which makes it clear that this isn't a point for point simulation of true survival, alcohol working in the way I stated, or something similar might be a plausible effect. 

 

Let's be real. Several things you do in this game, you should NEVER EVER EVER do. I mean, take Reishi mushrooms for instance. If you pick a mushroom out in the wilderness, brew it up then drink it, there is a 50/50 chance you won't live through the night, however, in this game you pick mushrooms, you treat food poisoning. I know it's a bit different of an item, but it's the same basic concept. If you can wrap your mind around the way the game works, rather than the way it is in reality on things like that, it's not much different with such things like how alcohol might work in a game. 

Sorry, I have to disagree.  There are several varieties of edible mushrooms in British Columbia and people who do forage for them.  The key is to know your mushrooms.  Alcohol is alcohol and its effects are well known and consistent and there is no purpose to having it be any different in game than it is in reality.  I don't object to alcohol being in the game, but don't ask them to turn what is a debuff in reality into some sort of make-believe buff.  If they introduce it and you drink, you should be slower, less coordinated, less able to fend off attacks, and more vulnerable to the cold while drunk.  You should get hungover afterwords as well.  You party, you pay.

[Guest kristaok]

Drinking doesn't always equal partying... there is added health benefits to drinking, and I had pointed out earlier that it can be used to diminish Pain, and Clean Wounds. 

[CSLooney]

2 hours ago, UpUpAway95 said:

Sorry, I have to disagree.  There are several varieties of edible mushrooms in British Columbia and people who do forage for them.  The key is to know your mushrooms.  Alcohol is alcohol and its effects are well known and consistent and there is no purpose to having it be any different in game than it is in reality.  I don't object to alcohol being in the game, but don't ask them to turn what is a debuff in reality into some sort of make-believe buff.  If they introduce it and you drink, you should be slower, less coordinated, less able to fend off attacks, and more vulnerable to the cold while drunk.  You should get hungover afterwords as well.  You party, you pay.

I think our big problem with communicating here is that you assume I am talking about introducing all the negatives associated with alcohol. Of course I know all the problems with alcohol, but if they were to make the negatives too steep, then it would be an entirely unused asset. When it comes to the "buffs" that it would entail it ONLY involves the struggle with the wolf or bear. It has nothing to do with your ability to avoid attacks or discern threats. The reason I suggest the 25% damage reduction, and 25% damage buff to your struggle is that when under the influence of alcohol, your ability to register pain is reduced(yes, in a real survival situation this can be a REAL death sentence, but this is NOT real life. 

 

IF alcohol were to be introduced it would have to have some sort of benefit, and some sort of negative. The negative would have to be able to be mitigated if you are playing the game properly, and so having all the negatives of alcohol in real life wouldn't make sense, as it likely wouldn't be able to be mitigated. 

 

And on the mushroom note, you would have to assume that the player character would have a decent knowledge of botany in order to know for sure the mushroom is safe to consume. 

[CSLooney]

1 hour ago, kristaok said:

Drinking doesn't always equal partying... there is added health benefits to drinking, and I had pointed out earlier that it can be used to diminish Pain, and Clean Wounds. 

That is true, but if that was all it was used for it would probably end up as a heavier alternative to antiseptic or painkillers. 

[AlexandraRussia]

Well, drinking alcohol is a bad idea. Especially in the cold. But if you do not use inside and outside.Well, for example to wipe the frozen skin. Because alcohol and cold don't mix.

[UpUpAway95]

5 hours ago, kristaok said:

Drinking doesn't always equal partying... there is added health benefits to drinking, and I had pointed out earlier that it can be used to diminish Pain, and Clean Wounds. 

Cleaning wounds with it isn't drinking it... and we have antiseptic for that now anyways.   We also have pain killers and rose hip teas for diminishing pain in the game already.  There is no need to add alcohol as another agent for these afflictions.

[UpUpAway95]

4 hours ago, CSLooney said:

I think our big problem with communicating here is that you assume I am talking about introducing all the negatives associated with alcohol. Of course I know all the problems with alcohol, but if they were to make the negatives too steep, then it would be an entirely unused asset. When it comes to the "buffs" that it would entail it ONLY involves the struggle with the wolf or bear. It has nothing to do with your ability to avoid attacks or discern threats. The reason I suggest the 25% damage reduction, and 25% damage buff to your struggle is that when under the influence of alcohol, your ability to register pain is reduced(yes, in a real survival situation this can be a REAL death sentence, but this is NOT real life. 

 

IF alcohol were to be introduced it would have to have some sort of benefit, and some sort of negative. The negative would have to be able to be mitigated if you are playing the game properly, and so having all the negatives of alcohol in real life wouldn't make sense, as it likely wouldn't be able to be mitigated. 

 

And on the mushroom note, you would have to assume that the player character would have a decent knowledge of botany in order to know for sure the mushroom is safe to consume. 

No... My understanding is that you want to introduce alcohol and deliberately not introduce the negatives associated with it.  Instead, you want to make believe that it has mystical positives to it (turning the PC stronger and better able to fight off wolves).  The reality is that the opposite is what should happen... the PC becomes less able to fend off attacks.  As I said, I have no problem with there being drinking of alcohol in a game; but I do have a problem in saying that it improves coordination and strength BECAUSE that is the sort of misconceived thinking that puts drunk drivers behind the wheel every single day... and that kills people IRL.  Find a different benefit because I'm a big no to making it seem like alcohol improves coordination and reflexes or strength.

I'm also not in favor of there being any implication that it would make the PC warmer, since (again) the opposite is the actual effect... and this also causes numerous trips to emergency by people who have been drinking out in the cold each year.

If you add a benefit from drinking alcohol, have it slow down the rest meter so that the PC can sleep longer at a stretch (i.e. throughout the entire night until dawn regardless of anything else) instead of being woken up part-way through the night to assess the environment.  This would allow for a longer period to recover health while sleeping, but come with the risk of not waking up to notice that one's fire has gone out or that the weather has changed.  Benefit and negative at the same time.  An added benefit is that it could override cabin fever for a single night, allowing the player to sleep a full night indoors even when they have cabin fever.  Really, it would mean drinking responsibly... only when you're warm enough and indoors where you're less susceptible to variations in the weather overnight.

At least on the mushroom note, I can assume the PC has some knowledge since he/she is only picking one variety of mushrooms and those mushrooms are indeed similar to an edible variety of mushrooms found in BC.  We also have to assume the PC has some bush knowledge about other plants in the game, like cat tails and now birch bark.

Edited June 11, 2019 by UpUpAway95
typos & added another idea

[Guest kristaok]

6 hours ago, UpUpAway95 said:

Cleaning wounds with it isn't drinking it... and we have antiseptic for that now anyways.   We also have pain killers and rose hip teas for diminishing pain in the game already.  There is no need to add alcohol as another agent for these afflictions.

Tell that to the people back in the day that used Alcohol to tend to their wounds... 

its not realistic to never find a whiskey flask or a beer / wine bottle anywhere on Great Bear. 

[Moll]

TLD wont include any drug or alcohol abuse due to age limit for game.

[UpUpAway95]

55 minutes ago, kristaok said:

Tell that to the people back in the day that used Alcohol to tend to their wounds... 

its not realistic to never find a whiskey flask or a beer / wine bottle anywhere on Great Bear. 

It may not be realistic to never find any alcohol on GB, but it is even more unrealistic to say that consuming alcohol causes the PC to be able to fend of wolf attacks better or to deal more damage to wolves.

As i said, I have no difficulty with alcohol being in a game.  What I have difficulty with is it being "promoted" as a performance enhancer. 

Also, you may want to do some reading on Aborginal "dry (i.e. alcohol free) communities" in Canada.  It's controversial, but they do (or at least did) exist.

Edited June 11, 2019 by UpUpAway95

[Tohono O'odham Man]

It sounds good to add alcohol and tobacco. Hinterland should sell an add on to introduce it to the game. 

[UpUpAway95]

16 minutes ago, FrozenCorpse said:

At the risk of seeming like I'm really pushing for the ability to crack a cold one fireside - and I really could take it or leave it - I will add that TLD has the same ESRB rating as World of Warcraft (T=Teen, ages 13+) which has "use of alcohol" in their description and game.  In fact, there are no less than 21 different types of alcoholic beverages in that game (each having a vision and motor control affect following consumption).

I agree.  The ESRB Teen Rating does allow for alcohol use in a game.

ETA:  There is already references to alcohol in this game.  At the start of Wintermute, there is a bottle of whiskey on Will's desk and Astrid basically tells him (and us) that Will has a drinking problem (which he defensively claims is "under control.")

Edited June 11, 2019 by UpUpAway95
typo

[ManicManiac]

On ‎6‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 7:34 AM, UpUpAway95 said:

Alchohol slows your reflexes and lessens your ability to divide your attention, which impedes your ability to react to sudden changes in your surroundings

@UpUpAway95 is very correct:

On ‎6‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 3:09 PM, UpUpAway95 said:

I'm also not in favor of there being any implication that it would make the PC warmer, since (again) the opposite is the actual effect... and this also causes numerous trips to emergency by people who have been drinking out in the cold each year.

It also dehydrates, and can very easily help a person freeze to death.
The idea that alcohol "warms you up" is a rather dangerous myth... to quote a couple of articles:

"Drinking boozy beverages may make you "feel" warmer, but it doesn't actually keep you warm or prevent hypothermia. Instead, drinking alcohol lowers the core temperature of your body...

...This is because alcohol dilates blood vessels, increasing the blood flow to the limbs and [the body’s periphery].  In reality, the greater blood flow to the limbs, which causes a sensation of warmth, leads to heat loss, resulting in lower core body temperature...

...Drinking alcohol is often associated with cases of hypothermia.  The false sense of warmth that occurs when drinking in frigid conditions might cause them to underestimate the extra strain that cold weather places on the body...

...Drinking alcohol also impacts the body’s ability to shiver, thus removing one of the ways the body combats exposure to cold weather..."

 

Mixing alcohol and cold is just generally a bad idea...

Edited June 14, 2019 by ManicManiac

[frickoffanddie]

Alcohol is currently presented (the opening Episode 1 scenes) in the game as to future-proof it in regards to ratings, but I believe it'd be difficult to implement it in Survival Mode in a way that doesn't glorify its consumption.

Alcohol has a lot of uses, like cleaning wounds (infection risk), as a sleep aid (cabin fever), as a painkiller (pain affliction) and even as stress reliever (steadying your aiming when cold). No doubt, it'd be a useful addition.

But otherwise, it's offensive to not only glorify the consumption of alcohol as something positive (and construe its effects in a beneficial fashion, even when tempered with negative effects, like everything that comes with being drunk), but also to allow it to exist in an isolated northern setting. That's a fulfillment of the stereotype that people who live in isolation drink a lot, and that probably won't sit well with some folks. Like.. just think about it; you have to binge-drink to stave off being riddled with Cabin Fever just for a night's rest, always looking for a bottle whenever you're scavenging because it's so useful. The Long Dark can be occasionally dark, but that's borderline traumatic.

Yeah, I'm probably overreacting, but to be fair, anything alcohol can do can already be done by items of a similar (or lower) weight that exist in the game. If you need to sleep through cabin fever in a pinch, just eat a hunk of raw meat. Boom, 10 hours easy sleep. Plus, you'll save the match that you'd normally use to cook it. It's a win-win.

Edited June 18, 2019 by frickoffanddie

[Enigma]

This would be good if you are out of antiseptic or and fuel, but you would need stronger drinks for that. Less alcoholic drinks (such as bear)  aren't that effective. The only other thing I could think of was that large amounts alcohol makes you were relaxed and there for you don't freak out and tense up your body making you a squishy ball instead of a brick with arms, that means less fall damage but the effect decreases exponentially  because your body is not made of a singular mass and different parts of your body react differently to high G forces. 

 

[turtle777]

On 6/11/2019 at 12:13 PM, Moll said:

TLD wont include any drug or alcohol abuse due to age limit for game.

Not sure the age limit is the reason.

After all, we have guns.

-t

[Yavind]

Alcohol for rinsing wounds, thats it. Can take a small taste from the whiskey but will take a little bit HP off. But it will give + boost on awareness, thirst and warmth. After the buff is gone, you will get a hangover and be more tierd than before you drank that whiskey. So alcohol gives you a + boost, but a hangover after and it clean wounds. So maybe a taste if you run out of buffs just to run inside a house and lay down in a bed to recover.

Edited October 15, 2019 by Yavind

[Jimmy]

I don't really understand what role alcohol would serve in the game as it stands.

Rinsing wounds? We already have big heavy bottles of antiseptic that do this.

Treating cold? Plenty of people have already commented that this is factually incorrect.

Giving buffs? Seems like it'd be more likely to add debuffs from the true effects on a human body.

In reality, alcohol is a poison that interferes with the healthy functioning of the human nervous system.  It also has the side effect of being a pleasant and moderately addictive substance when consumed in small doses. Traditionally, alcohol has been used for millennia to avoid spoilage of foodstuffs and as a recreational substance. In the current game, however, simply lacking presence of alcohol on Great Bear Island isn't cause for adding it unless there's some legitimate role it fills in game which adds to the survival experience. The argument that it's unrealistic not to be present is about as relevant as the lack of basic food staples such as rice or flour (or pancakes).

[Eylhardt]

3 hours ago, Jimmy said:

I don't really understand what role alcohol would serve in the game as it stands.

Prevent cabin fever?

Cheers!🍺

[peepercreeper]

maybe it could be a replacement for painkillers? (when you dont have any of course)