How to prevent descending down steep cliffs

[Kycko]

A lot of players (me too) used to go down of steep cliffs without any ropes. That's bad I think, I even don't want myself to play this style, but I can't force myself to avoid it. 🙂

So my suggestion is to add a chace of uncontrollable sliding if player stands on a very steep cliff (>60°). The game "throws the dice" for each new step so it would be impossible to go down from very high hills.

And uncontrollable sliding should not be the only penalty... We can have sprains, HP debuff, broken ribs... depending on the hill's heigth.

Edited January 5 by Kycko
fixed spelling

[Enigmaecho]

21 hours ago, Kycko said:

A lot of players (me too) used to go down of steep cliffs without any ropes. That's bad I think, I even don't want myself to play this style, but I can't force myself to avoid it. 🙂

So my suggestion is to add a chace of uncontrollable sliding if player stands on a very steep cliff (>60°). The game "throws the dice" for each new step so it would be impossible to go down from very high hills.

And uncontrollable sliding should not be the only penalty... We can have sprains, HP debuff, broken ribs... depending on the hill's heigth.

Why would they add a feature to solve an issue of cheating yourself by choice? I have beaten this horse into a skeleton, we have nigh unlimited control over how our runs go and there’s still folks that take issues lol bruh just don’t cheat 😂

[Kranium]

Yeah, I'd prefer they make it so a 3 inch slab of ice isn't an insurmountable obstacle. 🤣

[Kycko]

3 hours ago, Enigmaecho said:

lol bruh just don’t cheat 😂

I use dev console, flying, godmode and many other cheating tools for experiments and testing in separate saves. When I'm going to just play the game I disable all the mods and I have no problem with "just don't cheat".

Also I have no problem with abusive mechanics like "place a torch behind you and aim on the wolf with a stone" (I'm just litting the torch and going with it).

The only abusive mechanic that I can't force myself to avoid is descending down steep cliffs, at least in some risky situations.

Edited January 6 by Kycko
formatting

[Enigmaecho]

8 hours ago, Kycko said:

I use dev console, flying, godmode and many other cheating tools for experiments and testing in separate saves. When I'm going to just play the game I disable all the mods and I have no problem with "just don't cheat".

Also I have no problem with abusive mechanics like "place a torch behind you and aim on the wolf with a stone" (I'm just litting the torch and going with it).

The only abusive mechanic that I can't force myself to avoid is descending down steep cliffs, at least in some risky situations.

That still is a YOU issue not a devs need to implement a mechanic against everyone because some folks lack self control, it’s comes back around and around take responsibility for your own play style if you think it’s a cheat don’t do it 

you’re considering this mechanic from the veiw of bypassing ropes by cliff diving or billy goating down but what about the thousands of other times you are on a very steep hill just doing mapping or exploring or just being a new player, folks get to a point where they know the game inside and out and then forget everyone else isn’t necessarily on that level, been playin since release never cliff dived and very rarely billy goat but I don’t begrudge those who do they got skills and a risk tolerance I don’t I sure as hell don’t think the game needs to be made worse for them or their enjoyment taken over it 

Edited January 7 by Enigmaecho

[Leeanda]

Got to agree with @Kranium on this..    

 

But in the end it's about what choices we want to make..  within the boundaries of what htl want of course.

Maybe someone could make a mod for invisiwalls ,then the op could use them til they get out the habit of goating..

 

[xanna]

Goating is a big part of the game for a certain cohort of users and adding any unpredictability to it (or anything) would have very disruptive effects on those players. It's a very well-established mechanic within the game, that players have internalised and rely on. A lot of players have a game style that relies on some predictability and consistency in the effects of their choices, so having there be a random chance of something bad would be a big change.

However, while what the OP is suggesting  is one of those things that Hinterland wouldn't dream of introducing, if it had been there from the start we almost certainly wouldn't be discussing removing it. There is no doubt in my mind that what the OP describes makes total sense. It fits in the game and has similarity with other mechanics. The fact that we describing goating as 'cheating' means we acknowledge how unrealistic it is, and that it feels outside of the game as intended. This suggestion would bring it inside the game proper. Paradoxically, it might even encourage more people to try it as it would feel like one is 'supposed' to.

Personally I would love this, but only if I could wave a wand and have it so it'd always been there. The existence of goating as it currently is means it's too late now.

Particularly, I'd like to have more broken bones afflictions in TLD. A heavy fall can reduce condition by 'major bruising' but really there's nothing affliction-wise between a sprained ankle and death. A broken leg or arm would make heaps of sense. Like a sprain except with a healing time more like broken ribs.

[Kycko]

For all: we have blockers in some places if you remember. I know at least one in the Ravine, you can't just go down the cliff without the rope. This means the devs want to block this mechanic at least for some places.

15 hours ago, Enigmaecho said:

but what about the thousands of other times you are on a very steep hill just doing mapping or exploring

1. Devs can use zero chance of sliding for the first 3-4 steps;
2. As I said they can "roll the dice" for sliding only if the ground is >60°, not "just on the edge of the rock"; the game checks this value already for calculating sprains;
3. If you are exploring and going on some little rock (2 meters high for example) you will not get any debuffs because the heigth is very small.

15 hours ago, Enigmaecho said:

or just being a new player

All the new players learn how to play the game, and they just wouldn't do this after it happens once. Just like with all the other risky mechanics.

9 hours ago, xanna said:

so having there be a random chance of something bad would be a big change

My suggestion is not about randomising, it's a way to force players to avoid such cheating. 🙂 If you know that you will slide and get problems, you just will not use this mechanic.

[xanna]

13 minutes ago, Kycko said:

My suggestion is not about randomising, it's a way to force players to avoid such cheating. 🙂 If you know that you will slide and get problems, you just will not use this mechanic.

I understand what gameplay change you are trying to achieve through this, but you said it "throws the dice", that's the random chance I was referring to.

I know that if I go out in a blizzard or eat predator meat I will be get problems, but I still do it.

[ManicManiac]

Personally, I'm all for the power of Player Choice.

For those folks who like being able to goat around, then I'm glad they have that option.
For those folks who don't like the idea of being able to goat around... then I think it's fair to say that they can simply choose not to do that.
 

For me, it's nothing really egregious (at least, I don't think so)... most often I will just occasionally do a little goating for the sake of exploration.  Being able to creatively use the terrain to overcome some of the limitations we have for movement, I've been able to "climb" my way up to some neat little out-of-the-way places.  This doesn't give me any real benefit (as there is never really anything in those hard-to-reach places)... for the most part I just like it as an exploring tool.

Edited January 8 by ManicManiac

[Enigmaecho]

1 hour ago, ManicManiac said:

Personally, I'm all for the power of Player Choice.

For those folks who like being able to goat around, then I'm glad they have that option.
For those folks who don't like the idea of being able to goat around... then I think it's fair to say that they can simply choose not to do that.
 

 

Exactly my point buddy so many things on the wishlist amount to “change the game because I can’t not do xyz” stripped down to its base layers that’s how we got loper and custom in the first place and it’s never enough 🤷🏻‍♂️ 

Tales is like a case in point, 

no tales on loper that’s bs

::add tales:: crappy loot this bs…

add cooking… there’s too much food i want survive not the sims

make the ingredients scarce 

ugh there too few of the new ingredients to make it worth it on loper 

We want a challenge

big new challenging regions 

“why would you make these”

some folks are just never happy 

1 hour ago, Kycko said:

For all: we have blockers in some places if you remember. I know at least one in the Ravine, you can't just go down the cliff without the rope. This means the devs want to block this mechanic at least for some places.

1. Devs can use zero chance of sliding for the first 3-4 steps;
2. As I said they can "roll the dice" for sliding only if the ground is >60°, not "just on the edge of the rock"; the game checks this value already for calculating sprains;
3. If you are exploring and going on some little rock (2 meters high for example) you will not get any debuffs because the heigth is very small.

All the new players learn how to play the game, and they just wouldn't do this after it happens once. Just like with all the other risky mechanics.

My suggestion is not about randomising, it's a way to force players to avoid such cheating. 🙂 If you know that you will slide and get problems, you just will not use this mechanic.

Nitpicking specific points and ignoring the context doesn’t help your argument, folks still learning the game or even mid term players shouldn’t have to worry they’re struggle to find cairns or cartographer is going to be 10x harder because some loper player who uses god mode and out of bounds glitches doesn’t have the self control to not billy goat off a sheer cliff to preserve their own immersion 

Edited January 8 by Enigmaecho

[Kycko]

1 hour ago, Enigmaecho said:

Nitpicking specific points and ignoring the context doesn’t help your argument, folks still learning the game or even mid term players shouldn’t have to worry they’re struggle to find cairns or cartographer is going to be 10x harder because some loper player who uses god mode and out of bounds glitches doesn’t have the self control to not billy goat off a sheer cliff to preserve their own immersion

Ignoring the context? Where? 💩

And how my suggestion makes finding cairns & drawing the map harder? Have you at least one example place?

[hozz1235]

Players will always find ways to "abuse" mechanics in games.  The creators know they're doing it.  It's up to them if they believe it encroaches "enough" on their vision of the game to do something about it.

[Kranium]

On 1/7/2024 at 6:09 AM, xanna said:

Particularly, I'd like to have more broken bones afflictions in TLD. A heavy fall can reduce condition by 'major bruising' but really there's nothing affliction-wise between a sprained ankle and death. A broken leg or arm would make heaps of sense. Like a sprain except with a healing time more like broken ribs.

That would be awesome & sensible. Probably too late to make a change that big, though, but I, for one, would love it. Sensible realism.

[Pyroxene]

No please don't remove shimmying/goating! It's a great way for new and bad players to experience the game.

[odizzido]

This is just the opposite end of not being able to step over a twig. I think the goating is 100% legit since it seems our character rolls around on a wheel.

[Dr. S.]

It’s also possible, when you’re exploring near the top of a cliff, to accidentally go too far and find that it’s impossible to go back up, so the only way to proceed is down. I’ve done this a few times.