DLC Thoughts - A marketing and PR missed opportunity

[Morrick]

2 hours ago, hozz1235 said:

Prior to release, I recall asking several times, on several forums/Twitter, "What will be included with this rollout?"  Never got an answer.  I really thought the roadmap referred to would contain a clear explanation of this, but as others pointed out, it does not.

Are cougars in the game?

The first part of the Tales from the Far Territory expansion campaign (the paid content) is called 'Forsaken Airfield'. It's the one launched on 5 December.

It contains:

• The new Forsaken Airfield region and the transition zones leading to it.
• New weather phenomenon: electrostatic fog.
• New affliction brought on by exposure to such phenomenon: insomnia.
• New tool variants.

The free December update to Survival Mode contains:

• Complete overhaul of loot resources, updated loot tables.
• New spawn points.
• Scribbled notes under cars and trucks' visors.
• New wildlife: does.
• Added: ability to craft improvised crampons.

I extracted this information from the "Part One Update Video" on the Roadmap page at https://www.thelongdark.com/expansion/ - It is my understanding that everything else will come in future updates over the next 12 months, and that the order in which all the announced upcoming features and overhauls is fluid and will depend on development and community feedback.

I understand the frustration, but I'm not sure I agree that there was a failure of communication on Hinterland's part.

[hozz1235]

34 minutes ago, Morrick said:

The first part of the Tales from the Far Territory expansion campaign (the paid content) is called 'Forsaken Airfield'. It's the one launched on 5 December.

It contains:

• The new Forsaken Airfield region and the transition zones leading to it.
• New weather phenomenon: electrostatic fog.
• New affliction brought on by exposure to such phenomenon: insomnia.
• New tool variants.

The free December update to Survival Mode contains:

• Complete overhaul of loot resources, updated loot tables.
• New spawn points.
• Scribbled notes under cars and trucks' visors.
• New wildlife: does.
• Added: ability to craft improvised crampons.

I extracted this information from the "Part One Update Video" on the Roadmap page at https://www.thelongdark.com/expansion/ - It is my understanding that everything else will come in future updates over the next 12 months, and that the order in which all the announced upcoming features and overhauls is fluid and will depend on development and community feedback.

I understand the frustration, but I'm not sure I agree that there was a failure of communication on Hinterland's part.

Perhaps not a total failure of communication, but why couldn't they spell it out clearly for all to see (like you just did) instead of having to extract it from a video?  This is what I expect from a "roadmap".

Edited December 9, 2022 by hozz1235

[Morrick]

26 minutes ago, hozz1235 said:

Perhaps not a total failure of communication, but why couldn't they spell it out clearly for all to see (like you just did) instead of having to extract it from a video?  This is what I expect from a "roadmap".

Fair point. My somewhat cynical take is that on paper it may look a little bit underwhelming, especially for people who aren't Long Dark veterans. I am, and am okay with it and gladly purchased the expansion; others may not focus on 'the grand 12-month plan' and think they're getting too little for what they paid. It's just a guess, of course. 

[hozz1235]

I, of course, would have also purchased it even if "phase 1" just had the new zone.  I am still very excited about future content.  I also believe that this constructive criticism is only meant to help the company we care so deeply for.

[Serenity]

I'm fine with the initial release not containing that much. There is a lot to look forward to. All the bugs they introduced in the first version however make me worried about the rather aggressive release schedule.

[Luca Loquax]

My "Fluffy" throw-rug collection keeps getting bigger!

[Sgt Socks]

3 hours ago, Serenity said:

I'm fine with the initial release not containing that much. There is a lot to look forward to. All the bugs they introduced in the first version however make me worried about the rather aggressive release schedule.

This is perfectly put Serenity. You've succinctly expressed what I've rambled about. Thank you.

[conanjaguar]

2 minutes ago, Sgt Socks said:

This is perfectly put Serenity. You've succinctly expressed what I've rambled about. Thank you.

At least Hinterland haven’t gone the “Soviet Route” with 5-year plans and crappy end results . They might be leaning slightly towards that, but they haven’t gone there.

[Gwynren]

Just reading some of the replies here, I really don't understand how you can logically be okay with a DLC that comes in parts and not be okay with an early access DLC at the same time, if you think that the season pass system equates early access.

In my opinion there's nothing "early access" about the expansion pass... It's just the first release after they COMPLETELY restructured the game, to have zero bugs would be a miracle.

[ManicManiac]

I think to be fair... it ought to be at least acknowledged that this first increment of the expansion was also happening simultaneously with the game getting a foundational code overhaul.  This was a big task on its own and since they plan on continual updates on a six-eight week rotation (rather than six or more months); I'd stay some bugs and perhaps "lean" new content in the initial update is fine.  I'd tend to think they have a lot on their plate, and considering they are also working on episode 5 in a parallel track.... 

I think Hinterland has built/demonstrated/earned a lot of good will; I feel like they earned a little "benefit of the doubt."

We can't know all the challenges going on behind the scenes, or what they are having to do to adapt and overcome just to bring us what they have so far.
I feel like our patience has always paid off in the past.  

Edited December 11, 2022 by ManicManiac

[Luca Loquax]

Also to be fair...  to be faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaair... this stuff is awesome ferda ! 

[piddy3825]

@Revelation_jeff,

right on mark with my sentiments as well. 

Besides that, I wanted to give you a heads up that you can rest assured the admin team is aware of your feelings and has read thru this thread 'cause earlier when I logged in, I was checking the user stats and it indicated admin was logged in as well and just so happened to be reviewing these posts!  So that's a good thing, right?

 

[Sgt Socks]

7 hours ago, piddy3825 said:

it indicated admin was logged in as well and just so happened to be reviewing these posts!  So that's a good thing, right?

 

If they listen and don't just read what they *want* to hear then yes Piddy. (Of course not all positive comments are wrong, just as not all negative comments are, I just mean those that come from people who refuse to acknowledge even the slightest negatives with HTL/TLD.  That is just as unbalanced and unhelpful as unwavering negativity).

I am desperately unhappy with the state of what is a truly treasured game, this game saves (sorry, now past tense saved) me in a hugely isolated life living with PTSD.  I had such high regard for HTL and their commitment to quality control.  However all the issues with this expansion, the terrible lack of effective communication being one of the biggest, have stopped me playing completely.  Unheard of since I started in 2016.

My sticking point is that the lack of clear communication simply did not tell us that "DLC Expansion Pass" meant being a beta tester.  I did not sign up for being a beta tester.  Nowhere in the over hyped and unclear videos were we clearly told this is what was expected of us.  I would *not* have bought the expansion had I known this. If they wanted beta testing then it should have been given to a number of trustworthy veteran players to give their opinions on or it made explicitly clear in the marketing of the product that anyone who bought it would in fact be buying it as a beta tester.

I do understand that splitting the game is a massive thing and of course there will be bugs and difficulties.  However, those things were previously kept to a minimum by HTL who always released content which was pretty good in terms of bugs. It was one of the things I loved them for.  I thought that we were getting a split game which *had* been tested properly, that would have been checked to make sure it didn't break too many things that had already worked for a long time.

That isn't the case here.  If it were a few bugs here and there, like we have come to expect from HTL, then that wouldn't be a problem.  If it were a few more bugs than usual then still fine because as has been correctly pointed out, it is a newly split game.  But the state it is now? Along with the awful communication (see taking out caches, a constant since the very early days of the game, without telling anyone) what we have just isn't what was sold to us.  The expansion/DLC should never have been released alongside the brand new split of the game in the first place if it hadn't been properly tested.

Another major concern is - if this is what happens on first launch, does it mean that every single content update is going to be such a mess (both game and communication)?  If that's the case then I can see it being a year (or however long it takes them to finish the expansion) before I play again.  

Edited December 12, 2022 by Sgt Socks

[Kranium]

I'm totally fine with what they released. All good. Only problem is communicating what's actually in the release. Readable release notes next time, please. If not a week or few days prior, then at least along with the release.

 

Great job, otherwise.

[JoeBar]

I have no problem with the communication around TFTFT. In fact, I found they should have done even less.

The Long Dark is all about discovery, that's the core of the game. I highly prefer to discover if cougars are in the game by myself, rather than knowing it before even purchasing the DLC. The whole point is that we will discover a whole new region. It is not really "new" if we know all of it before...

[Leeanda]

35 minutes ago, JoeBar said:

I have no problem with the communication around TFTFT. In fact, I found they should have done even less.

The Long Dark is all about discovery, that's the core of the game. I highly prefer to discover if cougars are in the game by myself, rather than knowing it before even purchasing the DLC. The whole point is that we will discover a whole new region. It is not really "new" if we know all of it before...

People should be told what they're paying for.  

[RossBondReturns]

2 hours ago, Leeanda said:

People should be told what they're paying for.  

If you watch the update video they had a section which clearly laid out what the Paid DLC branch were getting in the update...and what the free branch was getting.

It was clear and well done.

Can't wait for the next update...loving the DLC so far.

[Leeanda]

9 minutes ago, RossBondReturns said:

If you watch the update video they had a section which clearly laid out what the Paid DLC branch were getting in the update...and what the free branch was getting.

It was clear and well done.

Can't wait for the next update...loving the DLC so far.

I wasn't saying they didn't ,I'm just replying to the comment about wanting less info on it.   It's all well and good wanting to discover by yourself but who will buy something if they don't know anything about it. 

that's all I meant really. No malice or anything of that nature. 🙂

[RossBondReturns]

12 minutes ago, Leeanda said:

I wasn't saying they didn't ,I'm just replying to the comment about wanting less info on it.   It's all well and good wanting to discover by yourself but who will buy something if they don't know anything about it. 

that's all I meant really. No malice or anything of that nature. 🙂

Yeah, I understand.

I just think that the main impetus of the thread is that they didn't clearly tell us...and yet...they actually did.

Each section of the video even had titles.

I'm not sure how they could've made it clearer.

I will say though that I have heard sounds that are new that could be equated to a stalking Cougar.

The game has added such sounds before...but they were used for other things...like settling rubble in caverns.

I honestly wouldn't mind if they added the Cougar silently since it is a silent stalker.

For instnace in the video they could touch on many of the things in the, say, upcoming update/next DLC drop...and then say find out more in the Release Notes. And in the release notes it says...We also added the Cougar...Shhhhh.

And they could have more listed in the release notes...but have those be optional...so those who want to can be surprised.

Edited December 12, 2022 by RossBondReturns
Clarity

[Leeanda]

I saw more info on here from players before I was even aware there was a list on steam etc..🙂.  Seems to be the quickest way to get info.

[Kranium]

Having to watch a video is bollocks. Release notes is the standard, always has been. And that's not to say they can't do both! I can read way faster than it takes to sleep thru a video.

Edited December 12, 2022 by Kranium

[hozz1235]

4 hours ago, JoeBar said:

I have no problem with the communication around TFTFT. In fact, I found they should have done even less.

The Long Dark is all about discovery, that's the core of the game. I highly prefer to discover if cougars are in the game by myself, rather than knowing it before even purchasing the DLC. The whole point is that we will discover a whole new region. It is not really "new" if we know all of it before...

So, you'd be okay if they removed hatchets from the game and didn't tell you?

Also, if you didn't know what was added, how would you ever know if you found that mystery item?

[hozz1235]

1 hour ago, RossBondReturns said:

I'm not sure how they could've made it clearer.

I love watching the videos, but I tend to watch somewhat passively, not have a notepad jotting down things as I watch.

When I envisioned a "roadmap", I see:  

Part 1
Release date:  
Content Included:

Part 2 etc.

...at a minimum.  This makes it so people can easily go back and quickly review what came out when. 

Remember, if you don't want to know what is coming out, don't read it!
 

[Mistral]

Here's an example on how detailed the patch notes used to be... why are they gone now... and/or delayed to time X, every single patch should have these sort of details upon LAUNCH

RUGGED SENTINEL Release Notes

Version 1.16 [33814]
 

NOTE:

 We are still investigating some issues with the Faithful Cartographer achievement; we hope to have it fixed soon and will update shortly.
 

NEW!

* Added the Moose to all Survival Mode regions.
* Added the Broken Ribs Affliction.
* Added the Moose-Hide Cloak gear item.
* Added the Moose-Hide Satchel gear item.
* Milton is now playable in Survival Mode, as "Mountain Town", including a full Loot and Wildlife pass.
* New Save System for WINTERMUTE.
* New Experience Modes for WINTERMUTE: Green Survivor, Capable Survivor, Hardened Survivor
* New Custom Experience Toolbox for Survival Mode.
* New Worn Clothing Weight Modifier.
* Added Aurorified Lighting to all regions; these appear when the Aurora is active at night.
 

ART

* General texture clean-up.
* General art optimizations to improve performance.
* Reduced opacity of nighttime breath effect.
* Additional beautification around Coastal Highway Quonset
* Additional beautification around Pleasant Valley townsite.
* [Wintermute] Added missing texture to chair in cinematic.
* Fixed floating bones in Forlorn Muskeg Bear Den.
* Fixed floating Wood object in Mountain Town.
* Fixed the sun position in all regions to ensure it rises in the East and sets in the West.
* General clean up on "out of bounds" areas.
 

GAMEPLAY

* [Survival] Fixed inaccessible loot in Turbine Room of Carter Hydro Dam.
* [Survival] Fixed inaccessible loot under bed in the Coastal Highway Quonset.
* [Survival] Fixed inaccessible loot in Cave in Mountain Town.
* [Survival] General loot tuning for Broken Railroad region.
* [Survival] Fixed inactive container item in Hunting Lodge basement.
* [Survival] Fixed missing corpses and containers in Broken Railroad region.
* [Wintermute] Fixed progression blocker related to Wood Bin and Flashlight in the Hunting Lodge.
* [Survival] Milton is now accessible from both Forlorn Muskeg and Mystery Lake regions.
* [Wintermute] Fixed missing translated strings for "Lake Gunshots" side mission.
* [Wintermute] Current episode progress (% Completed) is now displayed as part of Save Game information.
* [Survival] Fixed issue where player could get into a half-buried car on Coastal Highway.
* [Survival] UI updates to clarify Encumbered and "buffed" carrying capacity states.
* [Survival] Loot updates to Pleasant Valley to reflect additional beautifications.
* [Both] Added numbering to Afflictions in the First Aid UI to make it easier to treat when there are multiple instances.
* [Both] Fixed some inconsistencies in UIs that presented "cancel" options where that functionality did not exist.
* [Wintermute] Added some failsafe logic to ensure the Old Bear doesn't get stuck and prevent completion of the Bear Hunt mission.
* [Both] Reduced Deer carcass quartering time to 60 minutes, to improve balance against Bear and Moose quartering times.
* [Wintermute] Modified aurora appearance timings after the player completes the Bear Hunt mission in Episode Two. Aurorae should appear more frequently now.
* [Both] Controller bumpers can now be used to toggle between Harvesting and Quartering interfaces.
* [Both] Fixed issue where lit Lantern would be dropped during a Struggle, and end up back in the player's Backpack without being extinguished, thereby using up all the fuel. Lit Lanterns will now be dropped in a Struggle.
* [Wintermute] Fixed issues where items returned from a Trust interaction might not appear correctly in the player's Backpack.
* [Both] Fixed issue where player camera would be inside the Bear mesh during carcass harvesting.
* [Wintermute] Fixed issue where player would take no damage when standing inside Grey Mother's fire.
* [Survival] Fixed an issue where a few tunables in Interloper were defaulting to Stalker settings. Interloper should be more challenging now, as a result.
* [Both] Fixed some bugs with the Struggle system which could sometimes result in the player losing control.
 

AUDIO

* Several UI audio elements fixed.
* [Wintermute] Fixed bug where lit Flare audio could carry into cinematics.
* Moved triggers for "night is coming" gameplay VO to ensure they happen before it gets dark at dusk.
* Modified frequency of exploration music in Timberwolf Mountain region.
* General audio fixes for Grey Mother's House (Milton). Post Office (Milton), and the Hunting Lodge (Broken Railroad Region)
 

GENERAL FIXES

* [Both] General navmesh updates.
* [Both] The game will now automatically detect Polish and Italian text based on system language settings.
* [Survival] Added more backer info to Cairns.
 

NOTE FOR LINUX USERS:

 Some Linux users may need to manually install SDL2. This can be done by running 'sudo apt-get install libsdl2-2.0-0' in your terminal
 

### End of Release Notes ###

Edited December 12, 2022 by Mistral

[ChillPlayer]

11 minutes ago, Mistral said:

Here's an example on how detailed the patch notes used to be... why are they gone now...

Yeah I don't understand this either. If it's about keeping up the mistery then people who like to play unspoilered simply wouldn't read them. It's not that because they are out there you have to read them.

Can we have at least a word @Admin if and when the patchnotes will be released?