Feedback: Less wolves

[hipsu555]

I love this game but the wolves are just super annoying. There are way too many in the game and they are too agressive.

Ammount of them should be reduced and maybe make then less agressive. I dont have a problem with some of them attacking me, but not all of em. 

[GothSkunk]

1. What difficulty level are you playing on?

2. Are you carrying meat on you?

[hipsu555]

4 hours ago, GothSkunk said:

1. What difficulty level are you playing on?

2. Are you carrying meat on you?

Mostly Voyageur or Stalker. I know in pilgrim wildlife is passive, but there is way too much loot. And in custom mode you cant progresss your feats. 

No, no meat. Probloem is wolves are often at narrow places where you just cant avoid them. And ieven if you kill them, they respawn way too fast

Edited July 8, 2020 by hipsu555

[ManicManiac]

I think that the wolves are very manageable once you get to know their habits and learn to keep a respectful distance from them.  My current personal challenge I went more that 200 days with out ever getting into a struggle with a wolf... and even that was just because I did a foolish thing.

I think the wolves are great as is... I don't they should be nerfed or reduced.
I think it's better for folks to learn to evade and avoid, that's what I did and wolves are no problem at all.  Nowadays I don't often come into contact with wolves unless I want to, and if I can learn how to mitigate the threat of the wolves...  I think anyone can.

[SirSharper]

A simple flare, or piece of meat to decoy, and distance keep those suckers away. It took me a play through on Stalker to figure out the best way to avoid wolves (those things are aggressive on Stalker) 

[mayimbe]

Hace 13 horas, ManicManiac dijo:

Creo que los lobos son muy manejables una vez que conocen sus hábitos y aprendes a mantener una distancia respetuosa de ellos. Mi desafío personal actual más de 200 días sin tener una pelea con un lobo ... e incluso eso fue solo porque hice una tontería.

Creo que los lobos son geniales tal como están ... No, deben ser nerfeados o reducidos.
Creo que es mejor que la gente aprenda a evadir y evitar, eso es lo que hice y los lobos no son ningún problema. Hoy en día no suelo entrar en contacto con lobos a menos que quiera, y si puedo aprender a mitigar la amenaza de los lobos ... creo que cualquiera puede hacerlo.

I’d like to know how you do for 200 days without fighting wolves. You have some advice or help because since they removed the functioning of the lures I become very complicated.

Edited July 10, 2020 by mayimbe

[ManicManiac]

@mayimbe

Certainly.

I'll do my best to compile the methods I use as soon as I can and send them to you directly.

[Sherri]

There are definitely too many wolves. They make it difficult sometime to explore. 

I feel that they are being used as a stop-gap for a lack of environmental hazzards (other than the cold).

Hear me out...

In no way do I want the game to be easier. However the wolves are so frequent that it becomes an annoying repeat 'challenge' - either go around them or engage, shoot in the face & move on. I end up chewing through ammo not hunting, but just getting wolves out of my way so I can explore. They are so frequent that even on my first sandbox run I'm pretty good at defeating them & not really scared.

Instead there needs to be more variety in environmental hazards other than wolves. For example Forlorn Muskeg is fun because of the added 'challenge' of thin ice.

I'm not entirely sure of what those could be... maybe avalanches when near rock faces? Falling tree limbs that could land on you (an actual danger in snowy Canadian winters)? Other wildlife? Deep snow drifts that slow you down & soak your clothes?

Anyway. My point is that wolves are annoyingly frequent in my Voyager sandbox & I just want to explore - not safely & easily - just more variety in environmental danger.

[dustinmico]

I agree that the wolves are annoying and make it hard for exploration sometimes and sometimes they are just always "guarding" where you need to go.. but it's their turf and not ours. We have to adapt to living amongst the wolves which I agree can be difficult sometimes... but that's the challenge.

[odizzido]

I would love it if wolves were more dangerous but less frequent. I've found in my games I often sit there wondering how there can be so many freakin wolves just everywhere. They're not hard, they're annoying pests to swat away like mosquitoes swarming in endlessly. I would disable them entirely but then the only thing left is getting lost or freezing to death and that is not much of a challenge. I am looking forward to modding coming out...

[ajb1978]

Just now, odizzido said:

I would love it if wolves were more dangerous but less frequent.

That's what I did in my custom game.  There might be 4 wolves on the entire Mountain Town map, but if one sees you, you're in serious trouble.  They can do more damage than a bear mauling.

[Screenshot Pilgrim]

The lack of feat progression in custom games comes up a lot.  My 2 cents:  You don't need em.*  They make the game easier, anyway.   Or: Have 2 survivors going.  One after those cool looking feat badges, and another in custom settings, searching out that 'just right for you' wolf balance.  😀🐺🐺🐺  

*ok, the fire master feat is nice to have.  Starting at skill 1 each time really blows. 

[piddy3825]

9 hours ago, ManicManiac said:

I'll do my best to compile the methods I use as soon as I can and send them to you directly.

Frankly, I'd be interested in hearing about your techniques as well.  I've gone some time without a furry entanglement but not even close to that long! 

[hipsu555]

On 7/10/2020 at 11:42 PM, Screenshot Pilgrim said:

The lack of feat progression in custom games comes up a lot.  My 2 cents:  You don't need em.*  They make the game easier, anyway.   Or: Have 2 survivors going.  One after those cool looking feat badges, and another in custom settings, searching out that 'just right for you' wolf balance.  😀🐺🐺🐺  

*ok, the fire master feat is nice to have.  Starting at skill 1 each time really blows. 

I think most people do them because it gives them a goal in the sandbox, not because it makes their game easier.

Sandbox ist great, but at some point its just rinse and repeat and gets kinda boring for most of the players. In my opinion sandbox needs a possible goal, like being rescued or something.

I personally would like it if you can find a handcar and reactivate the train tracks in a big effort. Just a long-lasting term which takes you hundreds of days. It would enrich the sandbox gameplay alot. Or reactivating the Signal Hill in PV. You would have to find spare parts hidden all over the world and bring them there, repair the radio station and wait for an extra strong aurora in order to send your call for help. Just something to do exept surviving. 

Edited July 12, 2020 by hipsu555

[sonics01]

I think you are in the learning curve process, don't worry. Eventually, wolves will become easier and easier as you build more experiences.

If you play loper early stage, if there's nothing to fight with, then it can be a problem. But once you get bow and arrow, things dramatically change to opposite direction. Then, wolves become food supply at later stage once cooking level reached 5. If you play any lower difficulty, then check famous rifle/revolver places to loot them. 

Trust me, I don't have archery skill like TLD veterans like Kimiota neither anyone like Robin Hood. But if you have enough bow and arrow experience, close range head shot will become very easy. Their pattern is predictable, the current wolf AI is designed to react to your aim command. You can attempt "fake aim" by just posing the aim motion (without being in full aim, this can be achieved by just short click the aim mouse button) and let them run to you, then you can select the better position for your favor. I'm practicing mid-range archery these days, which is not easy. But I guess I will eventually get some sense of arrow drop with respect to distance. I think TLD does not consider wind to arrow trajectory. 

Typically, as far as I know and based on what I saw here, it takes a week or 10 days to respawn if you didn't harvest carcass. If you harvested anything, then it can be reduced 3 to 5 days.

But in loper game, wildlife population reduction setting is high. Once this option kicks in (probably from 30~50 days I guess?), respawn chance of wolf or any animal will be reduced. My loper character survived around 125 days and I'm in Coastal Highway, I can feel this. I killed them enough, and now there are not much of them when compared to early stage of the game. 

7 hours ago, hipsu555 said:

I personally would like it if you can find a handcar and reactivate the train tracks in a big effort. Just a long-lasting term which takes you hundreds of days. It would enrich the sandbox gameplay alot. Or reactivating the Signal Hill in PV. You would have to find spare parts hidden all over the world and bring them there, repair the radio station and wait for an extra strong aurora in order to send your call for help. Just something to do exept surviving. 

I suggested similar thing, the end game option in survival mode. I also think this would be interesting. 

Edited July 12, 2020 by sonics01

[Screenshot Pilgrim]

I've found another 2 cents.  Might as well spend it:

5 hours ago, hipsu555 said:

I think most people do them because it gives them a goal in the sandbox, not because it makes their game easier.

I suggested ignoring feat progression because you gave it as the reason not to try custom settings for your wolf issue.  If you want to change the wolf situation, custom settings is the way.  🤷‍♂️

5 hours ago, hipsu555 said:

Sandbox ist great, but at some point its just rinse and repeat and gets kinda boring for most of the players. In my opinion sandbox needs a possible goal, like being rescued or something

I tend not to bother speculating on what gets boring for most players, because how would I know?   I do know that I've not been bored.   In fact, the lack of goals (outside of survival) is one of the characteristics of The Long Dark that make it so great.  It's a refreshingly harsh virtual element.  You're either going to fail to survive, or if you do manage to keep yourself going, Virtual Mother Nature doesn't care at all that you're bored.    Bwahahahahahaaa!!   😄   🌬️🥶  🦌 

Your ideas for endgame scenarios are good tho.  I've often wished I could fix up a boat and sail the seas.   Perhaps the game's indifference stimulates our human tendency to come up with stuff like that.  

[sonics01]

33 minutes ago, Screenshot Pilgrim said:

Your ideas for endgame scenarios are good tho.  I've often wished I could fix up a boat and sail the seas.   Perhaps the game's indifference stimulates our human tendency to come up with stuff like that.  

Not the high seas, but if you see the horizon from DP, you can see another island over there. I think there might be a chance of new region in far future? I guess the possible next map would be Blackrock prison or Perseverance Mills or both, but who knows the future after those? Nobody expected Bleak Inlet when the new map comes out. It might be interesting to introduce a new island, only approachable by boat or natural bridges tides or iceberg or frozen sea, only possible to cross the sea at specific, limited amount of time. 

Regarding the end game, I think this is just difference of point of view. My characters are ~120 days but I think eventually this character will follow the infinite loop of beach combing rotation and coal farming, like every 10~15 days cycle. It would be still fun to challenge how far I can reach, (I know some dude survived 10 year in loper game) but I know I will get bored before reach that point and will give up. Plus, I think my character deserve better ending than that... 

One thing I'm thinking is, "late game contents" and "end game contents" should be distinguished. Me and many other wish to see more maps and more things to enjoy, which includes "late game contents" like basic item crafting, item decoration, or search for rare item, more animals and rare/strong "named" animals, and etc. I think "end game contents" can be a good "late game contents" as well. The motivation of "end game contents" in my wish list post was "late game contents" + better ending for character, purely as optional contents.

At the same time, I also wish to see other "late game contents", which are not necessarily ends the game. So many people wants basic level of crafting, more animals, as well as more maps...  If the manpower and budget of Hinterland is limited, then I would choose "late game contents". 

Edited July 12, 2020 by sonics01

[hipsu555]

38 minutes ago, Screenshot Pilgrim said:

I tend not to bother speculating on what gets boring for most players, because how would I know?

Sure noone exactly knows, but sometimes you can assume the problem. People here on the forums probably gonna like the game, but that dosnt show the overall playerbase.

Just some stats from steam. For survival mode: 
50,8% of playerbase survived 1 day
20,0% survived 10 days
6,3% survived 50 days
only 2,9% survived 100 days

For story mode: 
19,3% finished EP 1
7,6% finished EP 2
3,5% finished EP 3

A big part of buyers didnt even touched the game and onother big part dropped is real fast, regardless of what mode they played. Devs should ask themself why they loose so much players so early in the game. 

[Jolan]

15 minutes ago, hipsu555 said:

Devs should ask themself why they loose so much players so early in the game. 

They probably do... but in all honesty, my games list is a lot like my reading list. And I'm not alone in that. I have a large number of games that I've either never started or have only played for a few hours.  There's nothing wrong with them and I will probably go back and finish them, I just wasn't in the mood at the time.  Then there's the games you pick up because they're on sale really cheap, or a friend gave it to you as a gift, etc.

 

[Jolan]

My two cents on the wolves question is there are some maps where the wolves are workable and others where I end up slaughtering them in job lots just so I can get something done.  When I get bow up to level 5 I don't even bother avoiding them any more.  One of the things that slows down respawn is leaving a little bit behind. So don't harvest 100 percent of the meat.  I've also found that you can still use decoys, its just that the wolf needs to be farther away.  Keep in mind running is a perfectly valid survival tactic.  So long as you aren't carrying so much stuff you waddle like a pregnant yak.

[Screenshot Pilgrim]

Okay.  I guess I should have said, "I don't bother speculating on what gets boring for most players because why should I care?"   If you get bored, do something else.   Which many people did apparently.   Good for them.  🙂  

 

[Vince 49]

On 7/10/2020 at 10:48 AM, ManicManiac said:

@mayimbe

Certainly.

I'll do my best to compile the methods I use as soon as I can and send them to you directly.

Now that the decoy system has, in practice, been eliminated as a useful adjunct to fighting wolves with ranged weapons, I for one would like to hear about your methods.  I normally play Stalker without a rifle.  While there was a working decoy system, I could clean out the wolves from an area with my bow when needed.  Without the decoy, that has become much harder and I often end up in struggles.  For example, there have been several occasions where I wanted to explore the ice fishing shacks on Mystery lake, but first had to get rid of three to four prowling wolves.  With the decoy system, I could lure them away from the pack one at a time and eliminate them.  Now, the only technique I've discovered so far is to sneak into the middle of the pack while crouching, then start a file.  With a little luck, I can then pick them off as they approach the fire, just as they turn to run away.

So please share you compilation of methods with all of us.

[ManicManiac]

@Vince 49

Okay, fair enough... since I've gotten at least a few folks who want it, I'll go a head and post it right here just as soon as I get it done (I've been a little busy so, drafting it all up is taking longer than I would have liked). 

[ManicManiac]

@Vince 49, @piddy3825, @mayimbe, and anyone else who's interested.

Learning to live with wolves...

Here is a collection of things I've worked out to help me mitigate the wolf threat (this is just for the standard wolves mind you, I've not spent enough time in Bleak Inlet to really get to know the Timber Wolves yet).

First I will just touch on some basics...
Meat & Gut: Any amount of meat (cooked or raw) will affect your "detectable range" (whether you have enough to register on the "scent indicator" or not).  Raw gut is the same way.  Anything like this you are carrying will make you detectable at a greater range.

Wind: The wind will also distort your detectable range in the direction the wind is blowing.  This is important to keep in mind when we know there are furry woodland friends near by.  This can work to your advantage if your are downwind... (the wind will be carrying your "scent" further away and reducing your detectable range in front of you when walking into a head wind and the wildlife is like wise a head of you).  Of course that works the opposite if you are upwind.

Rocks: Rocks are good for distracting wolves, and with a little practice they are also great for getting a stalking wolf to flee.  However this means that we have to get proficient at pitching stones without "aiming in," because as soon as we aim in at a stalking wolf... of course it will charge.

Avoid blind hills and corners when possible (or approach with caution):  Try to scout around the immediate area before just traipsing though an area.  Try to use the terrain to the player's advantage.  So far I've only noticed one area where there is only one avenue of approach.  In just about every region I've mapped, I find there is always an alternate route we can take to get where we want to go.  If one of those paths is swarming with wolves... just take an alternate path around that trouble spot.  When there is no choice and you just have to try and crest a blind hill, get low before getting too close to the top.  This not only reduces your detectable range, but it also affords you the opportunity to stop and listen.  Often times when you are start getting dangerously close to a wolf's detection radius you will be able to hear it's footsteps.  This is a great early warning if the wolf near by has not already alerted you to it's presence by howling (or detected you because you were too close).

Howls: Pay attention to the howls... Howls will sound different depending on how far you are from the wolf that's howling.  This can let you make some surprisingly precise estimates on where they are roaming around long before you get anywhere near them.  However, sometimes they stay quiet so it's always a good idea to keep your head on a swivel and try to maintain a high level of situational awareness.

With the most basic stuff out of the way, I'll talk about some of the techniques that have worked well for me.

Scouting out the surrounding area in the direction I want to travel:  If I have an intended route I want to take, I will always do my best to find some high ground to see if I can spot any wolves in on the area ahead.  Most of the time I can always spot wolves prowling around long before I'm close enough to have to worry about attracting their attention.  When I can't do that, then I have to keep an ear out for footsteps in the snow, and listen for howls to gauge whether or not there are wolves on the path ahead when I don't have a good vantage to scout ahead of time.

If a wolf does detect me and begins stalking me, (first and foremost) it's important for me to keep just keep a cool head.  I've found that I can let a wolf stalk me clear across a map without too much trouble.  If I'm not encumbered I can usually stay a fair clip ahead of the wolf for as long as I need to (even without running - since that will just cause the wolf to run in order to try and keep up with you) until I can find a way to shake it or duck into a shelter for cover.

While being stalked it's also important for me to keep my mind on the path ahead of me... I need to make sure I can always keep moving towards a place I can either put more terrain between the wolf and I, try to use the terrain to break it's pathing, or just to make sure I don't wander into a dead end where the wolf would be able to close distance.  I find that as long as I keep moving the wolf may continue to follow me, but won't get close enough to charge.

If I have a ranged weapon and I feel like taking it down, I try to lead the wolf to as much of a flat stretch as possible.  This will reduce how much the wolf will end up "juking" around on uneven areas of terrain. They still might do it a little bit anyway depending on how they've pathed to me so I still have to watch out for that, but when I'm ready I will aim in quickly to trigger the charge.  Then I just make sure to take a well aimed shot at the head as it's running straight for me.  Generally this will put it down pretty consistently.

I also make it a habit of carrying around some stones, this way I can pitch stones at it (without aiming in) and get it to flee if the stone makes contact with the wolf while it's stalking.

When the opportunity presents itself I will also lead the wolf around and put a deer or rabbits between the wolf and I.  This will cause the stalking wolf to take interest in the other prey and go after them instead.

This behavior also comes in handy when there is only one wolf in the area as well as some other prey animals.  I can use the wolf to take down the deer/rabbit and then use stones to run the wolf off the kill.  If I can run the wolf off far enough, I can then harvest the kill.  This way I can use the wolf as an unwitting hunting partner.

Also as a last ditch effort, a decoy still does work for getting a wolf off your trail... we just can't use it for easy hunting.  If I drop a decoy, I just have to consider it like paying a toll to get the wolf off my back.   I almost never do this nowadays, but in a pinch it works... I just know that whatever I dropped is just going to have to be a sacrifice in order to get away.

[Addendum]
Of course torches, flairs, flair gun shots, and stray revolver/rifle shots will also fairly reliably run off wolves... but I find those can be pretty wasteful, so I generally don't use those methods. 

Well, that's most of the techniques I use to help mitigate the wolf threat on Great Bear (I'm sure there are more things, hopefully other folks can add to it, but this is what I could think of off the top of my head).

I know most of these are probably common strategies for a lot of the folks here, but I do hope it's helpful for anyone who's been having trouble with the wolf population.

 

Edited July 13, 2020 by ManicManiac

[piddy3825]

@ManicManiac

Thank you for the lesson in bushcraft!  I almost always travel with meat in my inventory.  That's probably the first thing I am going to stop doing.