personal hygeine, anyone?

[Tbone555]

i think that personal hygeine is often overlooked in survival situations. you cannot just lie around wallowing in your own filth all day, especially after handling raw meat. all kinds of sickness can be contracted from that. not to mention your dental health. as many candy bars as my guy eats, im sure he's got a cavity by now. and if a cavity is left completely untreated it can cause infection and could even kill you. im not saying we should chop our teeth out of our heads with an ice skate like in cast away but we should at least have a toothbrush, and be able to fetch lake water from fishing holes to heat and wash with it. maybe let us find old soap bars in some abandoned houses, or let us make our own using animal fat or lye.

[Boston123]

Many people don't understand that personal hygiene becomes MORE important, not less, in a survival situation. Even worse, how easy it actually is to keep your body and clothing clean.

• Body: Generally, you want to clean regularly the areas that get "warm and wet", as this is where bacteria lives and breeds, but keeping yourself clean as a matter of course is important as well
  • Underarms, crotch, and feet: the aforementioned "warm and wet" areas, where you sweat and where blood vessels are close to the skin. 
  • Wounds:: You are supposed to clean wounds with warm water (and soap, if you've got it), before any kind of bandaging takes place. Splashing some disinfectant on  a wound generally won't cut it. Take some boiled (Still warm) water and a (boiled) cloth and get all the junk out. I, personally, scrub off any initial scabs that form (as, generally, the initial scab will have sweat, dirt and clothing fibers mixed in), wash out the wound, then bandage with a sterile/boiled bandage.
• Clothing: Clothing insulates you by trapping air in "pockets" between the cloth fibers/fur, which serves as a vacuum between your skin and the outer air. When clothing gets dirty (from sweat, from dirt, etc), these "pockets", get filled up, and clothing loses its insulation value. Thus, you want to keep clothing as clean as possible. Not to mention that clean clothing is 1) more comfortable (comfort, believe me or not, is very important in a survival situation), and 2) clean clothing is less likely to irritate the skin, which in turn could lead to rashes and infections.

 

• Keeping things clean:
  • Body: On almost every stove in TLD, you can see some form of pot. Water can be boiled in said pot, or, failing that, just use an empty food can. While boiling water, throw some rags in there, and let them boil with the water. Take the container off the boil, and let it cool until it is still hot, but not hot enough to burn. Strip, and use the sterilized rags to scrub the entire body,taking special care with the crotch, under the arms, and the feet. If you've got soap, GREAT!. If not, you are just gonna have to scrub harder. Once clean, dry yourself off with a spare rag, then boil everything again with fresh water. 
  • Mouth: after eating, take a twig and peel all the bark off of it. Chew on the end of the twig until it splinters, then "floss" (Gently!) between the teeth with the twig. Take some hot water and rinse out the mouth.
  • Clothing: When clothing gets soiled (dirt, sweat, etc), boil some water and, while the water is still hot, take off the clothing and "wash" it in the water. If you've got soap, GREAT!. If you don't, take extra-special care to "scrub" the clothing in the hot water, changing the water regularly as it gets dirty. When the clothing is "clean" hang it up where warm air can circulate, so it take dry.
    • Socks: having clean socks is important. Take extra care to change socks regularly, and keep them clean and dry.
    • Footwear: same with footwear. Pull out the "insoles", clean them well, keep your footwear in good condition and well-waterproofed, and let them dry by hanging them where warm air can circulate. If you have sneakers, you can just throw them in the wash, but leather boots can't generally be washed. Keep them clean, regardless.

ALL of the above requires only a container (to boil water in) and some rags.

Even with the limitations we have in-game, there is no reason we can't boil water and some rags and take a "rag bath". I have even seen plenty of soap in various houses!

[Dirmagnos]

Hell, with abundance of buildings and occasional stove, player can make a makeshift sauna in one of these.

[togg]

I'm already boiling too much water. Thanks but no thanks.

 

edit: But I strongly agree with the idea of fetching lake water from fishing holes, this should be implemented without any doubt. Doesn't harm anyone and would give players a reason to adventure in those fishing nightmare cabins.

[Ms Nutcracker]

added + 1 to post!

[FatheriatorCZ]

Totaly for higiene and I am sure that people left behind soaps shampoos toothpastes and other kind of hygienic stuff.

I think it is wery important to wash yoursel and even more in survival situations so you don't get any kind of infection (in form of spores that survive incredibly long btw) in yourself.

[Malcot]

Weird, I was only thinking this myself last night. +1 from me.

[Vhalkyrie]

No thanks.  I'm afraid of it becoming "The Sims: TLD" where your Lone Survivor cries while standing in a puddle of pee!    I think this is a survival mechanic that I'm ok with leaving out for the sake of game enjoyment.  Or if something like it is implemented, please make it a toggle in the options menu where it can be turned off!

I also agree with being able to fetch non-potable water from fishing holes, though.  It bothers me that I can't collect it.  I should be able to collect it, then boil it for safety.

[6lv1]

+1

could be a slow mechanic, which implies more risks of infection after a wolf attack, or even a sickness risk added whenever you eat. Something rare, that happens at times, if you're very dirty, which gives you a non lethal little something (Diarrhea, vomiting?) to slow you down a little, need of more water, no running possible, need of more food, condition dropping a little faster if dropping?.

In my opinion, the enjoyment of the game is really to control your environment and yourself, to master all the variables that get you down slowly. when you do so, you starter to survive, if you do not, you're just dying slowly. What happens in this game is that at the beginning every choices you make are very important, leading you to death or leading you to one more day survival. Then you start to be able to craft a few things which makes you survive easier (crafting good clothing will make u almost immune to air temperature, so that you can do more outside, so that you can actually find more food, discover more etc)

After a wile (50 days) you start to fall in some kind of routine, it's a bit... easy to find your way. I think that adding some slow mechanic, such as personal hygiene would add risk management enjoyment for the second part of the game, the one that's too easy. we also should be affected by the type of food we eat in the long term. it is not ok to eat meat for a month, or no meat etc. these long term management would be great when we're actually kind of settles and we need to stay for good.

 I think i'll start a new post about that shah.

 

Anyway, +1 for personal hygeine

Actually I have a post about fat from animals. With fat comes soap, when you can have charcoal and water to make lye water. Well I guess it's totally doable in TLD  

[swissheart]

I like it. It would give us more things to do which would make things a little more interesting. I am tired of collecting wood all day

[polarnomad]

Personal hygiene would definitely be an interesting addition to TLD.

[Vilespectre]

While I definitely see the importance of hygiene from a survivalist perspective, I'd personally rather not see this added to TLD. I think this falls into the category of "things that happen off-camera", like going to the bathroom or drying out your socks over the fire. I don't particularly want a "BO meter" any more than I want to see a "Bladder meter" and then get eaten by a wolf while out taking a whizz in the middle of the night. Sure, it's something you'd have to take care of in a survival situation; I've actually made my own soap from fat and ashes before, but it's not something that emphasizes the harshness of the wilderness or the struggle to survive. I think hygiene is just a really important chore, and TLD isn't a chore simulator - it's a survival game.

Now, if the Devs do decide to include the Wellbeing System / Willpower Locket features that they mentioned on the roadmap, I could see bars of soap lying around cottages being a finite resource that gives a little boost to mental health. I would not expect/want to see leeching barrels and wooden molds and rendering animal fat and storage containers filled with half-empty bottles of shampoo or crumpled tubes of toothpaste. I don't want to die from bedsores or because my toothbrush snapped. I think Will can figure that out.

To quote Mr. van Lierop, “The game is built around wanting to present the player with interesting choices, not trying to create an incredibly realistic survival simulation.”

[Tbone555]

you all do make a very good point different people have different preferences. me, i could stand to see this game be a little more realistic, rather than overlooking the basic things to focus on the story and gameplay. but in the end, it is just that - a game. and games are meant to be enjoyed rather than to be ultra-realistic.

that fact still doesnt void my craving for an ultra-realistic survival game, though

[jurdglius]

+1

[Pasquinel]

Funny, while reading this I thought of Scurvy. While not a hygiene issue, it seems to me that it could be a real concern since the TLD diet primarily becomes all protein after a while. Sure the canned peaches and tomato soup will help fend off scurvy but they run out soon.  Maybe it would be nice to be able to forage for other types of foods that could help. Wild blueberries, cranberries, raspberries, or find a crate loaded with apples in PV farmstead cellar etc. 

Lewis and Clark ran into this problem when they reached the Pacific Northwest during the winter. They had to survive on a diet consisting of almost entirely elk meat. Consequently the men actually lost weight due to the high lean protein diet even though elk was in abundance and scurvy was an issue as well. There's my Cliff Clavin fact for the day...

[Vhalkyrie]

The scurvy issue has occurred to me as well.  I've thought that finding vitamins as well as antibiotics/painkillers might be a solution, but I'm not sure if I want to overcomplicate the game well-being bars with yet another one for vitamins.  I think I'm ok with leaving this to implicit assumption that I'm taking regular multivitamins, or leave this to a feature that someone will probably add when modding is available.

[illanthropist]

Thought about this a while ago and posted elsewhere, as mentioned here don't really want it as a forced mechanic so you end up giving off gas clouds like the sims or coming down with trenchfoot and medical conditions.  Although it might go OK if say the wash bowls found in certain cabins were usable instead of just cosmetic and work in-line with the proposed well being stats.  IRL I always settle into my doss bag better if my feet have had a quick wash or a rub with a warm flannel/baby wipe.

[cekivi]

Note that this post's topic was also discussed a month or so ago. Lots of good stuff there if you don't mind archive diving

[Vhalkyrie]

21 hours ago, illanthropist said:

Although it might go OK if say the wash bowls found in certain cabins were usable instead of just cosmetic and work in-line with the proposed well being stats.  IRL I always settle into my doss bag better if my feet have had a quick wash or a rub with a warm flannel/baby wipe.

I think this is a good idea.  Like illanthropist, I don't want to see hygiene implemented like The Sims - lol.  I don't want a hygiene bar, and if I don't wash, then I start crying and leave a puddle of pee.

However, if I have a quick splash on my face at a wash basin and I get a little burst of "happiness" if it's tied to the well-being system, then yeah.  I could go for that.  I just don't want it to be its own meter where I have to manage it like coldness or hunger.

[hauteecolerider]

14 hours ago, Vhalkyrie said:

However, if I have a quick splash on my face at a wash basin and I get a little burst of "happiness" if it's tied to the well-being system, then yeah.  I could go for that.  I just don't want it to be its own meter where I have to manage it like coldness or hunger.

This.

[iSUGGESTthings]

On 4/2/2016 at 7:39 AM, swissheart said:

I like it. It would give us more things to do which would make things a little more interesting. I am tired of collecting wood all day

This, pretty much. Also I personally would feel it more immersive if we had more basic needs besides food water sleep and shelter. Perhaps you get fleas from some infested hides, or some such event that prompts you to have to launder your clothing.

On 4/6/2016 at 1:48 AM, Vilespectre said:

To quote Mr. van Lierop, “The game is built around wanting to present the player with interesting choices, not trying to create an incredibly realistic survival simulation.”

For me, personally, having the extra stuff to do is more interesting than going 400 days (over a year) without a bath, a comb, or a pee for that matter. I start to think about a human being not bathing or anything for that long. Buuut, that's just me personally. I love the sims.. At this point, the game has a basic formula that is easy to get ahead of when you learn how to play. You establish a homebase, craft all the fur clothes so you'll never be cold, and amass all the tools and food you could ever need. It becomes less survival and more day to day life. And considering that the great majority of what we do right now is just eat and sleep.. Well, this is why I keep suggesting ways to pass the time.

 

[PlayDiscGolf]

Not to be too graphic, but playing as the female, with a possible menstrual cycle,  it could lure bears to you especially if sleeping in a cave or man-made snow shelters...

[cekivi]

Welcome to the forums @PlayDiscGolf

I don't think the menstrual cycle will be an issue in the game. Mainly because:

• That is not a level of simulation anyone wants to deal with (same reason why we don't need latrines)
• The bear would probably smell your terrible BO long before it smells some blood
• All animal attacks are currently based on line of sight
• Women are very capable of managing their periods so there isn't blood everywhere
• You're usually sleeping with a lot of raw or cooked food that the bear would also smell first.

[Tbone555]

3 hours ago, PlayDiscGolf said:

Not to be too graphic, but playing as the female, with a possible menstrual cycle,  it could lure bears to you especially if sleeping in a cave or man-made snow shelters...

"i heard that women's periods attract bears! they can smell the menstruation!"
"you hear that, ed? bears. now youre putting the whole station in jeapordy."
literally all i could think of when reading this xD

[Wastelander]

The thing about hygiene is that it'd probably destroy the game's T-rating when implemented and also make the game the target for a lot of silly jokes. While I do enjoy silly jokes (and I'm the first to admit that I am also a leading producer of silly jokes), we have to think about Hinterland's - and our- reputation here.

What I think could be meaningfully implemented into the game though would be the simple task of washing your hands - you just gutted a wolf, do you really want to drink a soda with those same hands before washing them?

So, from me it's a huge NO to toilet paper, tampons, pads, whatever, but a huge YES to just simply washing your hands after rummaging through the decaying, half-frozen cadaver of whatever you just shot.