Temporarily Removing the Cougar

[RossBondReturns]

I don't know about getting rid of the UI elements...perhaps make them toggleable since some people play who can't actually hear so they need visual UI cues as well as specialized closed captioning cues as well.

[Laika Ivanova]

Great news. Something rather unusual to hear from Hinterland, I think we never had something like this before, but given the feedback it's the right thing to do. Personally I was almost happy with how the Cougar worked, minus the lack of proper counterplay when mere moments prior to it's attach because it just didn't seem right to me that I can't possibly make it out in the wild before it initiates a struggle. Should it be easy? Of course not. The Cougar is supposed to be disgustingly terrifying, so when it does come for me, it should be fast and practically silent while doing so. But there should be a small window for the player to react offensively to maybe prevent a struggle from happening, not just the option to walk and avoid as that seemed to me like bruteforcing a certain playstyle. 

But it's great that you see that many aren't happy with the current version of the Cougar and decided to take it out for some time until it's, hopefully, better in some way. Until I noticed that you can't even spot it I was extremely paranoid, constantly looking around while the music played. I really hope whatever changes you will make keep this in mind.

Couple words about the rest of the update: I'm really happy that the option to retroactively enable Scurvy on existing saves was also added alongside the Cougar. What did put me down a bit was the bannocks recipes for recycled cans: I was hoping for some more new recipes for them, but maybe we can get them in Part 6. The Tale was amazing, but I'm a lore enthusiast so I'll take anything in that regard. Sundered Pass also looks quite nice with the street leading up. 

[Raphael van Lierop]

5 minutes ago, Laika Ivanova said:

Something rather unusual to hear from Hinterland, I think we never had something like this before, but given the feedback it's the right thing to do.

We took a year and remade the first two episodes of the game, remember? 😅

[ThePancakeLady]

20 minutes ago, Snowtippedwolf said:

Timberwolves can still help you with that desire, if you're interested 😅

You would like that, wouldn't you? As you goat down the mountainside, laughing gleefully, tossing sticks at me, knowing I will forget about the timberwoofs to grab those sticks, waiting for the day when they run away and I don't notice it's because Floofinator is back. Because Floofinator will be back... 😜

[Pencil]

I think it's awesome that you guys at Hinterland are receiving the feedback and acting on it. I know it would be really disheartening to remove a new feature and have many critical reviews on it. To take the time to disable a feature to revise it when you didn't have to shows a lot of support for your community. 

I'm not saying thanks for removing the cougar or for removing "a bad feature" (I don't think it was bad, it was just different). I think it's amazing to see a developer that will go out of their way to deliver the best for their community. You guys are awesome for that. Looking forward to the new implementation, take your time. 

[TFA303]

I'm in the minority that was pro-Cougar, but I can see why folks wouldn't like it, and I really respect Hinterland for listening to the customer like this. 

[athuez]

I appreciate you and the team listening to the community, take as much time as needed.

[SuperStriker16]

It needed some additional work, that much was pretty obvious, I’m still going to try to bag one before its removal, but I’m glad that y’all are listening to the community and addressing the issue with the cougar. And thanks again to the whole hinterland team for being quick to adapt with the issues of part 5.

[rush247]

1 hour ago, Laika Ivanova said:

Great news. Something rather unusual to hear from Hinterland, I think we never had something like this before,

Were you not here for the no Tales in Interloper incident?

[wild]

I am so glad Hinterland heard the complaints and are rolling it back. I, too, was almost happy with it. Heck, I would be happy if it remained the same, beyond the constant alerts you get on the HUD and map. But I hope this gives the team a chance to really hear the player base and make it something truly epic and dangerous for us all.

And once again, please, I'm begging, if we do get something similar to this, let us choose our own modifiers. I want it to make me RUSH out of regions and I'm sure other folks also want a low threshold to make game play really dangerous.

Thanks so much for listening! I know it was a hard decision to decide to roll it back.

[Kayosiv]

1 hour ago, Raphael van Lierop said:

We took a year and remade the first two episodes of the game, remember? 😅

I'll never forget it.

Thank you for taking some time to take another look at the Cougar. 

[Superhik72]

I love Hinterland studio and how they always care about their players. They are not like other sudios which just want to earn an obscene amount of money and dont care about players feedbacks.

I was ok with how puma work, but also im ok if you make puma to work how other want. 

[Ghurcb]

1 hour ago, RossBondReturns said:

I don't know about getting rid of the UI elements...perhaps make them toggleable since some people play who can't actually hear so they need visual UI cues as well as specialized closed captioning cues as well.

I don't think that in terms of visual cues it's either UI popups or nothing. There could be clawmarks on trees and doors, cougar footprints, animal carcasses in the trees, captioned survivor phrases like "I feel like I'm being watched".

[Ghurcb]

It's amazing how quickly Hinterland responded to the cougar feedback. Really goes to show how much they care about their players.

I see a lot of people here saying they'd be fine with just the HUD elements being reworked. While I think it's a significant issue, I also would really love for the cougar to be an animal that is physically present in the world instead of a time-based event. Of course, with the part 6 of TFTFT being delayed until the cougar is revamped, I may want to limit my expectations. At the very least, the cougar should attack from behind and not from the front where you can see it appearing out of nowhere.

Big thanks to the devs for listening to their community!

[rootbeard]

Been having so much fun with Misery that I haven’t had chance to test it myself but I like the concept. 
 

From the streams I’ve watched and conversations I’ve had, most people have positive thoughts but agree that certain aspects could be adjusted.  It’s still a great update. 

[Laika Ivanova]

2 hours ago, Raphael van Lierop said:

We took a year and remade the first two episodes of the game, remember? 😅

I'll take that as an uncountable exception because of the sheer size of it 😆

But no, that was amazing when it happened back then. Getting the motion capture in and completely revamping the whole thing was incredible (although I did love the handmade animations from EP4 as well). 

[DrZ]

Wow, just started a new run to experience scurvy and the cougar as new threads but I did not plan to face the cougar early on so no problem waiting.

Hence, I can't talk from experience but when seeing the introductions to the cougar (announcement, videos) it felt a bit un-TLD-ish to me. I love the idea of having a new predator pattern but the telegraphing of the cougars arrival does not feel right to me. 

Also people complain about the "teleport attack" which you can not outsmart or out-skill (and gamers do not like that). But I always remember the saying about a cougar: "If you can see it, it is not hunting you." So how to balance these?

In the spirit of constructive feedback let me sketch out how I could envision the cougar to be modified for a more TLD-ish comeback (and ignoring difficulties to implement).

How to arrange the meeting:

• One cougar exists in great Bear Island and this cougar roams the regions randomly independent of what the player is doing. So you might enter a region where it is already present or it comes to your region while you are staying there. Like bad weather it can derail your plans. Planing for a forging session? Maybe in another region because this one has the cougar in it.
• To know that a cougar is present the player gets the clues (sounds, fresh dead game, etc). Maybe scratch marks. These will persist for 5 or maybe 10 days. Then the sounds stop (maybe at least a day so you can discern the difference) and that means that the cougar does not want to be noticed. Because it is closing in on you.

How to improve the teleport attack:

• The attack starts from a spot that is close to the player but can not be seen by the player. (e.g. behind a rock or a small hill but not on the open ice in Coastal Highway.) The cougar can not be heard and runs the quickest route that is not in the current field of view of the player. Then the usual struggle, etc.
• This gives the player a slim (as the cougar is very fast) chance to react before the cougar is upon them by constantly looking around them and keeping an eye on likely angles of attack.

Anyway, I was glad the cougar was different than the other predators. My fear was it would be the gatekeeper to the Far Territories or something like that and I hope it does not come back in a form like that.

Cheers,
Z

[thekillergreece]

Looking forward to it!

[Hazelnut]

I am disappointed that it's been removed honestly, doing some tweaks down the line fair enough but removing it entirely is pretty drastic. I get it though and understand, given the discourse around it. I was fine with the implementation myself, because I really liked the fact that there was categorically zero chance to strike before getting a scratchin', because if there's a chance no matter how small we'd all be trying to find ways to cheese it. (you know we would... :)) This is an apex predator who a noisy slow human is never gonna hear coming. I liked that straightforwardness myself.

I'd like to request that if it's changed so players have a chance to shoot the Cougar before it pounces, please make it almost impossible (like a split second lucky headshot) that's not cheesable (though how on earth can you be 100% sure) and maybe have the consequences of only wounding it with a shot being that it will not stop mauling until you're dead and gone.. or a worse mauling at least.

Anyway, my feedback may not be noisy or melodramatic but I do hope that Hinterland have the capacity to listen to the quieter voiced feedback.

[Leeanda]

🥺.     For the team and for the cougar... I saw nothing wrong with it.....oh well. obviously in the minority..

Thank you for the time and effort you've already put in to it..💗

[Jeremy4200]

Wow! Cause I work alot I haven't been able to try the cougar yet! Oh well ! 

[ElSuperGecko]

@Raphael van Lierop

I just wanted to say thank you for the fast and direct response to your player feedback.  I know it's impossible to make everyone happy but personally, I think the reaction shows just how much the players love your game and want to see the best experience possible.  It's clear the players love the concept of the cougar and have been eagerly awaiting it.

I just wanted to say that the Cougar model looks great, the attack animation is both amazing and terrifying and the very thought of an alpha predator stalking you through the regions if you dwell in any one place too long sends shivers down the spine.

I'm really looking forward to seeing how you plan to redevelop the cougar, and the terror it will bring when it returns!

[artmunki]

I was deliberately avoiding tussling with the kitty until after I've completed the new Tale (I'm taking my time), so I guess I might just have to wait a little longer now. And I don't mind admitting a tiny bit of relief - you definitely seemed to have nailed the high threat level of an apex predator, so I'll be using that extra bit of time to keep working out my strategy for whenever I finally do come face to face with it.

I did previously express my own views on how it was implemented, based entirely on various clips & streams I've seen since launch (and my own limited experience of the HUD warnings etc.), and I hope I was clear that I totally respected Hinterland's desire to make this addition something quite different to the other predators, and also hope you guys can find a way to preserve that aspect. I certainly don't think the cougar was broken (launch bugs don't count ;p), and I'd hope it doesn't become any easier to deal with with the redux, but I think the Hinterland team have proven time and again that they're more than capable of delivering amazing experiences through this game, and I'll look forward to seeing what this revision brings.

And on that note, I want to join in the general swell of appreciation and commendation for the team. Not only have you made an incredible game, but you continue to develop and foster both the game and the community around it in a genuinely admirable spirit - something that seems quite rare these days. My online presence has been steadily diminishing for a while now - before finding my way here, I hadn't actually posted anything online for quite a few years, and had every intention of sticking to that. My love of the experiences you've given me through this game is what brought me here, but the well-natured and very welcoming community is what brings me back. And through Raphael's posts here, and of course the team's incredible responsiveness to player feedback, Hinterland very much feels a part of that community, not merely its foundation. You guys set a very high bar of what a game studio can be, and I hope you're all duly proud of what you've built. I can't wait to see what you bring us in the future - the revised cougar, the last part of Tales, the conclusion of Wintermute, and whatever comes next. Safe to say I'm on board for the long haul! 

[neslim32]

"I want to make it clear that the design we selected for the Cougar was my decision"
Actually i liked it. Maybe just me.  She is so fast, quick, experienced hunter. Can jump on me from nowhere.
That is ok. She is trying to hunt me. And i think she can. At least in the jungle. 
İ though we had enough warnings and a lot time for run away(5days). And some bloody dead bodies are nice details.
i can understand(i have to) that enable/disable option is not ok for everyone.
i mean good job adding cougar. not happy removing it (temporary). what??? that was majority of upgrade. we came back immediately for her! 

please let us play with her again soon. so i can run away from her :) That is the point isnt it?

 

[Sherri]

Man this can't be an easy decision. I respect the choice to go back and rethink this a bit.... but it must be really tough to deal with that. It was worth it to give this a try and experiment a bit with a new kind of threat in the game.... implemented differently... too bad it didn't land very well with players, but it's nice to see HL trying new things and pushing the bar with the game. No shade on this at all. Looking forward to seeing what comes back. 

 

9 hours ago, rush247 said:

You can see some of this in videos on YouTube, here's one by Tomisina.

https://youtu.be/xq5r-VWWUKE

This is the first I've seen of how the cougar works. Why is it fading to black before we see Tomisina's shot? Is that how it works or is it her editing? Man even your one shot doesn't really look like it's happening IN the game. 😔

Edited Friday at 12:30 PM by Sherri