Episode 5 ??

[peteloud]

I have tried to avoid the DLC.  I want to complete the standard, original game before I try the paid-for DLC.  However my curiosity got the better of me and I have been looking at the TLD & Steam websites to see what is in the DLC and when Episode 5 will come out.  This left me confused with a few queries.

When I open my TLD I see that it is ver 2.24 121035 S 

When I open my Wintermute it is ver 2.07 120583 S

When view the TLD website on STREAM I see that the latest update is 2.23.  This leaves me confused.

 

How will the original game and the DLC link to Episode 5?  Will Episode 5 have all the extras of the DLC, i.e. pancakes etc. If so, will purchasers of the original game who have not bought the DLC be able to run Episode 5?

Edited October 26, 2023 by peteloud

[xanna]

At the same time as the DLC was released there was also a big change that separated Wintermute from Survival, they are now two separate things.

The current release for Survival is 2.24. I guess Hinterland didn't put patch notes for it on Steam because it was a relatively small update. Details were posted in this forum, however: https://hinterlandforums.com/forums/topic/44075-the-long-dark-updated-to-v224/

The DLC is a DLC for Survival, and includes new maps, Tales, item variants etc. There have also been updates to the game, alongside but separate to the DLC, including things like acorns, mementos, fire-hardened arrows, new fishing mechanics. These are not part of the paid DLC, they're just updates for everyone on Survival. Many of the DLC-only features have some connection to the new maps so can't be put into a game that doesn't have those maps, e.g. glimmer fog, unique recipes, Tales.

So no, I don't think the DLC-only updates, like Frontier Cooking (including pancakes) will be in Episode 5, since they're not even in non-DLC Survival; you have to buy the DLC to get the extra stuff. They wouldn't put stuff behind a paywall then have it appear for free on Wintermute.

The non-DLC updates haven't been propogated to Wintermute - there's no oak trees in Mystery Lake in Episode 2, for example. Wintermute gameplay was never exactly like Survival gameplay, even when they were more wrapped up together. I guess they decided to not go back and change the episodes of Wintermute that are already out, they're considred finished. But it's possible some of the new features that are not DLC-only might be put in Episode 5. The way Episode 4 ended suggests that Episode 5 might take place at Persverance Mills... so maybe Episode 5 will be a whole new map that isn't in Survival mode, and so that could have its own new features. That's a very exciting thought!

I downloaded the DLC on its first day, so it's harder for me to see clearly which Survival updates are DLC-only and which are available in non-DLC Survival, but there is some indication on the official website e.g. here's the announcement that says that Frontier Cooking is DLC-only: https://www.thelongdark.com/expansion/#part-three

 

Edited October 26, 2023 by xanna

[peteloud]

xanna,

Thanks for that explanation. I must admit that I am still confused.  I need to re-read your reply carefully.

In my opinion the DLC marketing strategy has been very badly done. I think that HTL should have completed Episode 5 before bringing out the DLC.

Every now and again I get the chance to try out the DLC and I am disappointed with it.  Bringing out the DLC section by section means that much of the game needs repeating with the new features everytime something new is added and needs to be found and used.  Apart from that, some of the new features seem a bit of a tedious waste of time.  I haven't played enough of the latest DLC Survival, but I suspect that I would survive better if I stuck to killing and cooking animals than having all the hassles of collecting acorns, hunting ptarmigan and baking pies & panckes.

Don't think that I am anti-HTL or anti-DLC. I have played TLD for several years and have around 6,000 hours of playing the game.  have praised it a great many times in many places. I am primarily referring to the HTL decision to bring out the DLC before completing the game. 

[xanna]

27 minutes ago, peteloud said:

xanna,

Thanks for that explanation. I must admit that I am still confused.  I need to re-read your reply carefully.

In my opinion the DLC marketing strategy has been very badly done. I think that HTL should have completed Episode 5 before bringing out the DLC.

Every now and again I get the chance to try out the DLC and I am disappointed with it.  Bringing out the DLC section by section means that much of the game needs repeating with the new features everytime something new is added and needs to be found and used.  Apart from that, some of the new features seem a bit of a tedious waste of time.  I haven't played enough of the latest DLC Survival, but I suspect that I would survive better if I stuck to killing and cooking animals than having all the hassles of collecting acorns, hunting ptarmigan and baking pies & panckes.

Don't think that I am anti-HTL or anti-DLC. I have played TLD for several years and have around 6,000 hours of playing the game.  have praised it a great many times in many places. I am primarily referring to the HTL decision to bring out the DLC before completing the game. 

No worries. It is a bit complicated, partly because it hasn't been explained very well, and bundling DLC drops with base Survival updates has really blurred the line. (Though I understand why it is done in that way.) This is my best understanding of it all.

The DLC is, IMO, very much about additional fun stuff to play with and doesn't change the core game. Which is what I expected from a DLC tbh -  new weapons and clothes and food. It's superficial stuff compared to the base game, and I guess it's fun but it's not what I'm here for. The Tales are a bit different, not new items, but like a new quest, something to do when you're on day 400 and have done everything else. I got the DLC because I was so excited for new maps - everything else is gravy.

For me, hunting ptarmigan is no hassle, similar to rabbits, so it's it's a bit like having a few extra rabbit groves around the place. Getting the down from them is like getting pelt and guts from a rabbit, but they don't smell and you don't have to wait for them to cure, so it's handier. I agree with you about cooking - there are some uses for specific recipes, but apart from that I consider it a novelty.

[AdamvR]

the fancy cooking is not a core thing for me either.
Primarily I'm still eating the same cooked game and fish, as before, with the additional ptarmigan or the exotic fish.
They just work the same. The down is good to make a new clothing item, which i think beats the earwraps, and is also renewable. You can also stuff a bedroll with it to raise its temperature bonus - handy.
the fancy food I have only used so far when going for their extra buffs, such as healing more while sleeping (if cooking the meat into a stew) when my condition got really low, and wanted it to go back quicker - and did not have tea. Since the ingredients are non-renewable, I think it makes sense to only use them on occasion,  not as the main food source.
The new map I do love a lot, the rest are nice additions, but one can also easily ignore them.
I have not yet gotten to the tales for e.g., but easily can spend a 100 days in FA:)

for the original question: my understanding was, that the DLC is only for Survival, not for Wintermute.
That is why they were separated in the first place, so they can be developed independently.
@xanna's take, that some elements might still make into Ep5, or Wintermute could have a Wintermute-only map sounds interesting.

And the other reason for the separation was, in my understanding, that Survival could still grow while Ep 5 is worked on, the two do not have to wait for each other.

Edited October 26, 2023 by AdamvR

[peteloud]

I returned to TLD and was screwed up by a load of bugs. 

 

I can't be bothered with  this hassle.  To pot with it.  I shall return to Skyrim until HTL sorts TLD out.

 

I am amazed at how I feel. As I have already said, I have played TLD for  around 6,000 hours and I thought that it was the best game ever.  Now I am utterly p*ssed off with it.

[hozz1235]

3 hours ago, peteloud said:

I am amazed at how I feel. As I have already said, I have played TLD for  around 6,000 hours and I thought that it was the best game ever.  Now I am utterly p*ssed off with it.

I feel ya, Pete.  Luckily, I'm not affected by many of the bugs others experience, and when I do, I've gotten used to overlooking some of them (unless they are game-breakers).  I've been playing lots of other games too - partly because there are some GREAT ones out recently and partly waiting for HL to release new content/work out issues.

From outward appearances, there does seem to be something going on in the HL studio.  I could venture many guesses, but I won't.  My loyalty and love for the game will keep me coming back though!

[peteloud]

What the final straw was today was when in a game I couldn't light a fire.  Whenever I tried many other things didn't work.  Fortunately I backup my saves so that it didn't result in Permadeath.

However I have so many versions of TLD and more backup saves than I could count and I have a few Mods running so there is a possibility, although I doubt it, that I might have brought on the problem myself. This was further complicated by not being able replace my TLD download from Steam, so I wasn't playing my usual game.  Whatever, the game is no longer the exciting challenge that it has been.

[Semple Fi]

Hello there

 I’m pretty sure HtL and TLD would’ve been out of business without the DLC.  Point is, they ran out of money and I highly doubt Episode 5 would’ve been finished this decade without the additional revenue.  
Cost of doing business during a world wide shut down and small business culling… Just the way it is.  
 

I bought the DLC for the cheaper entry price, knowing full well it would end up delayed.  I have confidence that @Raphael van Lierop will deliver on the finished product, he appears to be a man of his word and he takes pride in his company’s success…

I know everyone is their own adult with the right to make their decisions but I would say…. But the DLC while it’s at a discount.  There will be features of it you enjoy that will be worth the ~$15.
@Admin has been paying attention to these threads and likely is taking into account EVERY suggestion from EVERY player. Try suggesting some features on the wish list you would like to see incorporated.  You may end up pleasantly surprised.  
 

Just my…

[ManicManiac]

I think it's probably better if we avoid speculation (or ascribe motivations to Hinterland) on maters that we don't really know the actual facts around.

 

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by ManicManiac

[Admin]

Hi all, 

We’d like to respond first to the OPs original question about the different version numbers of our builds. 

Yes, there are different builds with each their own unique version number depending on how much it is updated, hence why they are different numbers all together. We have a build status page which shows the latest information on recent updates per platform that you can check to make sure you have the most up to date version.

The TALES DLC is for Survival Mode and has nothing to do with WINTERMUTE. You can learn more about this from our October Dev Diary. 

If you currently own THE LONG DARK (which combines Survival and WINTERMUTE), or if you have bought the WINTERMUTE DLC for SURVIVAL EDITION, you will get Episode Five when it releases in 2024.

Lastly, we’d like to remind all members of this community that although we value your thoughts and opinions, please be mindful of your tone. We do feel your frustration and please trust us that we’re working to the best of our ability to provide you with what was promised. We know it can be tricky but try not to assume or speculate too much as that seems to be the fuel that begins a path towards negative and disrespectful comments towards us and others in this community. 

[AdamvR]

4 hours ago, Admin said:

You can learn more about this from our October Dev Diary. 

… as I’ve just gotten excited, the link leads to last October’s Dev Diary…

 

thank you @Admin for your above note and clarification!

Edited October 28, 2023 by AdamvR

[ManicManiac]

3 hours ago, Abenico said:

WE WANT GLOVES 😆

It's on the way...

On 9/13/2023 at 5:36 PM, Admin said:

• and great free updates to Survival, including -- wait for it -- proper coverings for first-person hands!

 

 

Edited October 28, 2023 by ManicManiac

[UpUpAway95]

On 10/27/2023 at 7:59 AM, peteloud said:

What the final straw was today was when in a game I couldn't light a fire.  Whenever I tried many other things didn't work.  Fortunately I backup my saves so that it didn't result in Permadeath.

However I have so many versions of TLD and more backup saves than I could count and I have a few Mods running so there is a possibility, although I doubt it, that I might have brought on the problem myself. This was further complicated by not being able replace my TLD download from Steam, so I wasn't playing my usual game.  Whatever, the game is no longer the exciting challenge that it has been.

Bugs like that are never fun.  Hopefully, you got it working again.

[peteloud]

2 hours ago, UpUpAway95 said:

Bugs like that are never fun.  Hopefully, you got it working again.

No, I gave up, but that was not my game/computer. 

 

However I did manage to sort out the problem with my computer not being able to reinstall TLD from STEAM.  It was the version.dll  file that was part of Mods that I was trying out.   Previously both TLD and the Mods were working perfectly, so I don't blame them.  I have no idea what corrupted the version.dll file, perhaps it was something that I did.

Having had a brief look at the lastest TLD, I think I shall continue my wait for Episode 5.

[UpUpAway95]

55 minutes ago, peteloud said:

No, I gave up, but that was not my game/computer. 

 

However I did manage to sort out the problem with my computer not being able to reinstall TLD from STEAM.  It was the version.dll  file that was part of Mods that I was trying out.   Previously both TLD and the Mods were working perfectly, so I don't blame them.  I have no idea what corrupted the version.dll file, perhaps it was something that I did.

Having had a brief look at the lastest TLD, I think I shall continue my wait for Episode 5.

I hear ya.  I'll probably be taking another long break from it soon - It's not that I'm upset over anything this time around.  I haven't been experiencing too many serious bugs (humorous ones, yes - today I had a bunny walking about 10 feet above the ground 😀); and I still think the rifle spawns have been reduced too far to make room for other "stuff."  Mostly, it's that I'd prefer to play the game story somewhat "fresh" when it is complete.  Ditto for the DLC.  Hopefully, we won't have to wait too much longer for either of them to be finished.

[ManicManiac]

🤔
I'd tend to think that the mods are likely the culprit (in cases where mods are in mix)...  I'm on steam as well (and don't use mods), and my copy seems to be working just fine. 🤭

Seems a bit odd to be upset at Hinterland for updating their game, when a modded game breaks.

That's not on Hinterland... that's on the person choosing to add additional code to a game that is seeing ongoing updates, adjustments, and expansion.  

Are there bugs and some issues currently, yes... but they are acknowledged and being worked on.
The game in its current state (at least from what I can see on Steam) is still very playable.
(that is to say, while there are bugs and issues... it's not fundamentally broken)  

Edited October 28, 2023 by ManicManiac

[ManicManiac]

@Abenico

I didn't mean to seem like I was teasing you.
I know you were joking, but I really was just trying to remind and reassure that the feature in question is indeed on the way.

[AdamvR]

14 hours ago, ManicManiac said:

Are there bugs and some issues currently, yes... but they are acknowledged and being worked on.
The game in its current state (at least from what I can see on Steam) is still very playable.

Currently: yes. There still are some annoying bugs, but much less than before the latest update of ‘150+ bugs resolved’

before that I also chose to take some time off, had some very similar feelings as @peteloud was expressing…

even have been worried that I have to wait until mid2025 for all updates to get released and all bugs introduced till then to get resolved…

 at the same time it is pretty clear, that Raph also was aware of the same, and as much as he could express it openly, he did not seem to be happy with the state it was, either. After all, he decided to come back to the development team from his long awaited next step…

so am feeling better about it as well, and my trust is also coming back..

 

(at the same time: I never use mods. Just like I never watch dubbed movies. I want to enjoy art as it’s creator intended. And also, they can mess things up, which is indeed not HL’s fault at all)

Edited October 29, 2023 by AdamvR

[peteloud]

4 hours ago, AdamvR said:

(at the same time: I never use mods. . . . .

I avoided Mods for years but the level of illumination was so bad at times that I installed House Lights.  Lighting is better now    

I think I have another Mod installed but can't remember. 

However I have to admit some Mods add interesting and fun activties. I like piddy's rearrangement of rooms.

[AdamvR]

14 minutes ago, peteloud said:

the level of illumination was so bad at times

Don’t get me wrong, I have no problem with anyone else installing mods. I’ve read others complain about the darkness of inside locations. It is dark, for sure.

I personally do not think it is in any way unrealistic: the size and location of windows vs the rooms’ size and arrangements can easily make areas dark even during daytime. Especially if it is cloudy, and being up north does not help it either (afterall it is cold there because of much less sunlight than what most of us have irl. (I also need to turn on lights in some parts of my apartment even during the day, and I only live in NL)

for the gameplay, I think fish oil is not such an expensive resource to use it for taking a second look while looting - after trying to grab things I can also see without it.

but that is just my take on it, no judgement if others see it differently

[peteloud]

1 hour ago, AdamvR said:

I personally do not think it is in any way unrealistic:

I can only assume that you are relatively new to the game.

I started playing around 2017 or 2018, I think with version 1.37, or something like that.  In my first few years of playing some interiors were terrible, almost as black as the ace of spades. Some were OK.  I would bet that there were faults in the algorithms to cause it.  But that is not the point.  Even if it was an accurate reproduction of illumination levels inside a room with small windows it ruined the gameplay and needed changing.   It steadily improved over the years. 

In my recent test of the game I was quite impressed with the lighting when going through a cave.  In a long cave or tunnel there would be no light whatsoever so everything would be full black if represented accurately.  That would be no good in a game. In my recent test I found that there was just enough to see a little, but not much.  As I went through that cave I thought to myself, how well the developers had chosen the level of illumination.

Games are meant to be enjoyable.  They must make things difficult so that one has a feeling of satisfaction when one conquers that difficulty.  To make make something unneccesarily and unreasonably difficult makes a bad game.

As I sat writing the comment, with a couple of stubbie beers, I could not help but to reflect on the earlier comment about Mods.  I suspect that the addition of the capabilities of some well chosen mods would add more enjoyment to the game than all stuff about acorns and baking pancakes.

Edited October 29, 2023 by peteloud

[AdamvR]

Thank you for sharing the above thought stream.

4 hours ago, peteloud said:

I can only assume that you are relatively new to the game.

for the record, 18 November 2017.

you can look up the version if important:)

Edited October 29, 2023 by AdamvR

[UpUpAway95]

11 hours ago, peteloud said:

I avoided Mods for years but the level of illumination was so bad at times that I installed House Lights.  Lighting is better now    

I think I have another Mod installed but can't remember. 

However I have to admit some Mods add interesting and fun activties. I like piddy's rearrangement of rooms.

I find the lighting in this game is very hard on my eyes and I often get headaches if I play for any length of time at a sitting.  I absolutely have to use torches or lanterns indoors - even just to avoid getting stuck on furniture.

While I have nothing against mods, I wish they would consider putting some of the "fixes" modders have implemented into the main game for those of us on consoles who don't (or can't) use them.

[AdamvR]

3 hours ago, UpUpAway95 said:

I find the lighting in this game is very hard on my eyes and I often get headaches if I play for any length of time at a sitting.  I absolutely have to use torches or lanterns indoors - even just to avoid getting stuck on furniture.

I'm sorry to hear that - it must be awful to get headaches from the game we like so much...
it only shows up automatically after first installing, so it is easy to forget about, but there is a setting/brightness where one can play with the slider to find the right balance for them - maybe you can find a setting that is more comfortable, but still challenging.
(as I continue to believe, that in addition to realism, the indoors are also darker on purpose, so that one cannot find all loot/move around in caves without using torch or lantern)
Hope it can help you.

Edited October 30, 2023 by AdamvR