Episode 5 ??

[KingFuzz]

@Leeanda It was definitely a strange bug. There was a pre-rendered snow shelter in Forsaken Airfield that I escaped a blizzard in. It collapsed midway through the night but I was allowed to stay in the shelter with the full weather shield benefit. But when I tried to get out it  bugged out and kept me from leaving the shelter. 
Quitting and reloading the save didn’t fix it but relaunching the game completely did. 
I’ve been recording my runs lately so if I get the chance I’ll post a video as a bug report.

[Leeanda]

1 minute ago, KingFuzz said:

@Leeanda It was definitely a strange bug. There was a pre-rendered snow shelter in Forsaken Airfield that I escaped a blizzard in. It collapsed midway through the night but I was allowed to stay in the shelter with the full weather shield benefit. But when I tried to get out it  bugged out and kept me from leaving the shelter. 
Quitting and reloading the save didn’t fix it but relaunching the game completely did. 
I’ve been recording my runs lately so if I get the chance I’ll post a video as a bug report.

Oh I see..  I thought the last fix had sorted the snowshelters out.   I got stuck in one in hrv but that was before the last update..   not sure how you slept in it after it collapsed though,that is weird...

[KingFuzz]

3 minutes ago, Leeanda said:

Oh I see..  I thought the last fix had sorted the snowshelters out.   I got stuck in one in hrv but that was before the last update..   not sure how you slept in it after it collapsed though,that is weird...

I didn’t realize that was formerly an issue. Maybe I’m not updated to the latest version? I’ll check when I get a chance. 

Edited November 2, 2023 by KingFuzz
Typo

[AdamvR]

7 hours ago, Leeanda said:

Oh I see..  I thought the last fix had sorted the snowshelters out.   I got stuck in one in hrv but that was before the last update..   not sure how you slept in it after it collapsed though,that is weird...

I also found one of the snow shelters weird in FA, the one on the island. (it is a new run, started on FA a few weeks ago) it was already ruined (a few days after I started), and I removed it, but it stayed. removed it a few more times, one time it was not ruined, the rest it was. In the end it disappeared - yaay. then again it was there some time later... and I stopped trying to remove it...
It seems like there are multiple snow shelters added on top of each other, and they keep getting added (maybe when I reload it? haven't tested).
that would explain how one could sleep in them (=one is still not ruined), and perhaps also the thunder-like sound that was there before the update: if there are multiple snow shelters, and all trigger the sound, it could get amplified.
but it is just a theory. I also thought it got fixed (at least, the sound is gone now), but still does not seem to be perfect...

Edited November 2, 2023 by AdamvR

[Leeanda]

5 hours ago, AdamvR said:

I also found one of the snow shelters weird in FA, the one on the island. (it is a new run, started on FA a few weeks ago) it was already ruined (a few days after I started), and I removed it, but it stayed. removed it a few more times, one time it was not ruined, the rest it was. In the end it disappeared - yaay. then again it was there some time later... and I stopped trying to remove it...
It seems like there are multiple snow shelters added on top of each other, and they keep getting added (maybe when I reload it? haven't tested).
that would explain how one could sleep in them (=one is still not ruined), and perhaps also the thunder-like sound that was there before the update: if there are multiple snow shelters, and all trigger the sound, it could get amplified.
but it is just a theory. I also thought it got fixed (at least, the sound is gone now), but still does not seem to be perfect...

I have been in a couple and been fine,but that was hrv and ash canyon..  I wonder if it's just in forsaken airfield then?    The loud noise does sound familiar from before the fix... 

Edited November 2, 2023 by Leeanda

[UpUpAway95]

14 hours ago, KingFuzz said:

Are you intentionally trying to be antagonistic? If people don’t agree with your assessment are their opinions just invalid? @Leeanda has done an excellent job at helping foster a sense of community here. Why degrade them just because you don’t like the valid points they’ve been making?
 

You play with mods to change the base game more to your liking, but then complain about the base game when it doesn’t perform to your liking? What exactly is your point? 
 

Just today I was playing and my game bugged out. (PS4) I had to reload the game 3 different times. But I kept reloading it. Care to guess why? Because this game is an amazing game despite its bugs and because Hinterland seems to have a pretty good track record of fixing the bugs in due time. 
 

The eyesight thing is possibly a good point that @UpUpAway95 is making but conflating removing permadeath and fixing lighting glitches is ridiculous. Permadeath is literally the point of the game. Your decisions are made to matter. It’s part of what makes this game as amazing as it is.

Not everyone plays every game for the same purpose or desiring the same level of difficulty or challenge.  Other goals could be to find every cairn, map every location, find every recipe, etc. and some players invest many, many hours into a save file to accomplish that.  Many do it in pilgrim files expressly because they don't want to see their file delete when their goal for that run is only partially completed.  If the permadeath deletion of the save file was something that the player could opt not to do if they do have a different goal for that run, they might be inclined to do it at a higher difficulty and take some risks - maybe have more fun in the process.

As I said, nothing stops me from playing any game as a permadeath game.  I just have to opt to manually delete my save file and start over if I mess up and die.  For me, at least, that personal commitment is enough for the game to feel like my decisions matter and that the last thing I want to do is take a stupid and die.  It's nice when a game gives me the added option of turning on a feature that will delete the file automatically for me (like Minecraft Hardcore mode), but it's also nice to know that I don't have to play Minecraft that way every time I start a file - that on some runs, I'm free to take more risks.

Edited November 2, 2023 by UpUpAway95

[xanna]

On 10/30/2023 at 7:13 PM, UpUpAway95 said:

An accessibility option to adjust interior/exterior contrast in lighting would be a wonderful thing for me.  Not sure whether they'll ever do it, but it would extend my ability to play by quite a bit.

Even not as an accessibility option, but just on the same basis as we have a brightness slider (though it took me a year to find it, lol) we could have a contrast slider. Adjusting brightness without adjusting contrast is always a bit of a payoff in any situation.

[xanna]

On 10/31/2023 at 9:14 PM, KingFuzz said:

You get that this game isn’t meant to be easy, right?

Who told you that? The game itself says in the disclaimer screen "...our goal is to provide an interesting set of choices for you to play with safely". That's it. The measure of a game like TLD is not whether it's hard or easy-going, but if it's an interesting set of choices. Hinterland provide so many ways of customising the experience, and the modding communiting have provided more, and whether a player's customisations make it 'easier' or 'harder' is their choice to make their experience of TLD the one that's most interesting and engaging for them, whatever their own personal goal and enjoyment of the game is.

(Not to pick on you specifically, @KingFuzz! I think this is something a few different people in this thread might benefit from thinking about.)

Edited November 2, 2023 by xanna

[Leeanda]

@xanna   it wasn't my intention to criticise how people chose to play...  of course it's entirely up to the individual..I was just trying to say that blaming htl for bad game design isn't fair. 

Maybe I should've chosen my wording more carefully... and be awake properly when I write these things..

[KingFuzz]

9 hours ago, AdamvR said:

I also found one of the snow shelters weird in FA, the one on the island. (it is a new run, started on FA a few weeks ago) it was already ruined (a few days after I started), and I removed it, but it stayed. removed it a few more times, one time it was not ruined, the rest it was. In the end it disappeared - yaay. then again it was there some time later... and I stopped trying to remove it...
It seems like there are multiple snow shelters added on top of each other, and they keep getting added (maybe when I reload it? haven't tested).
that would explain how one could sleep in them (=one is still not ruined), and perhaps also the thunder-like sound that was there before the update: if there are multiple snow shelters, and all trigger the sound, it could get amplified.
but it is just a theory. I also thought it got fixed (at least, the sound is gone now), but still does not seem to be perfect...

Exactly the same shelter I’m talking about. It’s the one on the island and a short walk from the house on the hill.

[xanna]

3 hours ago, Leeanda said:

@xanna   it wasn't my intention to criticise how people chose to play...  of course it's entirely up to the individual..I was just trying to say that blaming htl for bad game design isn't fair. 

Maybe I should've chosen my wording more carefully... and be awake properly when I write these things..

I didn't read anything you said in that way at all, don't worry about that. I agree totally that criticising HL for their choices isn't fair. I think these conversations sometimes get lost talking about things that make the game 'harder' or 'easier', and using that as a metric, rather than thinking in terms of what is intended, or what is interesting.

[Leeanda]

4 minutes ago, xanna said:

I didn't read anything you said in that way at all, don't worry about that. I agree totally that criticising HL for their choices isn't fair. I think these conversations sometimes get lost talking about things that make the game 'harder' or 'easier', and using that as a metric, rather than thinking in terms of what is intended, or what is interesting.

Thank you.😊. 

I agree.. we're all different,and this gives us the options to do what we like..  I'm happy on the easier levels but I have tried loper and stalker and they were all fun to do..   what's interesting to one person isn't to another.. but I'd still love the game even if it had only one level . As long as it wasn't harder than loper😁

[xanna]

4 minutes ago, Leeanda said:

Thank you.😊. 

I agree.. we're all different,and this gives us the options to do what we like..  I'm happy on the easier levels but I have tried loper and stalker and they were all fun to do..   what's interesting to one person isn't to another.. but I'd still love the game even if it had only one level . As long as it wasn't harder than loper😁

Completely agree!

[KingFuzz]

5 hours ago, xanna said:

Who told you that? The game itself says in the disclaimer screen "...our goal is to provide an interesting set of choices for you to play with safely". That's it. The measure of a game like TLD is not whether it's hard or easy-going, but if it's an interesting set of choices. Hinterland provide so many ways of customising the experience, and the modding communiting have provided more, and whether a player's customisations make it 'easier' or 'harder' is their choice to make their experience of TLD the one that's most interesting and engaging for them, whatever their own personal goal and enjoyment of the game is.

(Not to pick on you specifically, @KingFuzz! I think this is something a few different people in this thread might benefit from thinking about.)

True. And perhaps I should give more thought to the way I expressed myself. I don’t have anything wrong with modding the game more to your liking. I choose not to myself but to each their own. However, to me, the game being difficult is implied in it being a survival game. In fact, the quote you made of the disclaimer screen suggests as much by saying it isn’t necessarily safe to do this stuff in real life. However, maybe this could all be chalked up to a difference of opinion/interpretation. I respect others rights to play the game how they want. It isn’t my place to tell you how to enjoy a work of art. I was more disappointed with the antagonistic tone of the original posters comments. But this is their thread and I’m choosing to comment on it myself so that really is on me in the end. Thank you for your input. Keep surviving!

[KingFuzz]

1 hour ago, xanna said:

I didn't read anything you said in that way at all, don't worry about that. I agree totally that criticising HL for their choices isn't fair. I think these conversations sometimes get lost talking about things that make the game 'harder' or 'easier', and using that as a metric, rather than thinking in terms of what is intended, or what is interesting.

This is a really good point. Sometimes I the confusion comes down to using words to describe something when those words can mean different things. Some games are intentionally difficult to play from a skill perspective. Others are difficult because they are poorly made. Same word; different meaning. Which is why HL (and I imagine every game developer) wants us to be constructive in our feedback. 
I don’t know. What do you think?

[xanna]

20 minutes ago, KingFuzz said:

True. And perhaps I should give more thought to the way I expressed myself. I don’t have anything wrong with modding the game more to your liking. I choose not to myself but to each their own. However, to me, the game being difficult is implied in it being a survival game. In fact, the quote you made of the disclaimer screen suggests as much by saying it isn’t necessarily safe to do this stuff in real life. However, maybe this could all be chalked up to a difference of opinion/interpretation. I respect others rights to play the game how they want. It isn’t my place to tell you how to enjoy a work of art. I was more disappointed with the antagonistic tone of the original posters comments. But this is their thread and I’m choosing to comment on it myself so that really is on me in the end. Thank you for your input. Keep surviving!

Yes, this, totally.

I'm disappointed by the antagonism, too, it's not what I want in our conversations here and it's always off-putting when I might want to join in an interesting discussion.

Sorry again for picking on you specifically, but your comment was a perfect launching point for the thing I was trying to figure out how to say. I certainly don't disagree with the more general point you were making.

[KingFuzz]

7 minutes ago, xanna said:

Yes, this, totally.

I'm disappointed by the antagonism, too, it's not what I want in our conversations here and it's always off-putting when I might want to join in an interesting discussion.

Sorry again for picking on you specifically, but your comment was a perfect launching point for the thing I was trying to figure out how to say. I certainly don't disagree with the more general point you were making.

No need to apologize 😉 I don’t feel picked on in the slightest.

[xanna]

3 minutes ago, KingFuzz said:

No need to apologize 😉 I don’t feel picked on in the slightest.

Thank you, Your Majesty.

[UpUpAway95]

29 minutes ago, KingFuzz said:

This is a really good point. Sometimes I the confusion comes down to using words to describe something when those words can mean different things. Some games are intentionally difficult to play from a skill perspective. Others are difficult because they are poorly made. Same word; different meaning. Which is why HL (and I imagine every game developer) wants us to be constructive in our feedback. 
I don’t know. What do you think?

Yes.  To me, a game being a "survival" game does imply that it's necessarily difficult.  To me, it's a genre that says I'm going to be asked to pay attention to things like sleep, hunger, thirst, etc. rather than, say, dps and weapon styles or upgrades (shooter genre) or story choices, conversations, and personalities (rpg genre).  Also, I believe difficulty is a relative thing - some things are more difficult for some people than other things.  I also think a game can benefit (sometimes) by expanding to be inclusive to people with different abilities, ages, and interests.  Of course, the devs are in the best position to assess this and make the ultimate decisions on what criticisms they take into consideration when plotting out what they want to do.  I don't believe anyone here thinks TLD is a bad game - or else they wouldn't be here suggesting improvements instead of being elsewhere, playing something else.

[KingFuzz]

34 minutes ago, UpUpAway95 said:

Yes.  To me, a game being a "survival" game does imply that it's necessarily difficult.  To me, it's a genre that says I'm going to be asked to pay attention to things like sleep, hunger, thirst, etc. rather than, say, dps and weapon styles or upgrades (shooter genre) or story choices, conversations, and personalities (rpg genre).  Also, I believe difficulty is a relative thing - some things are more difficult for some people than other things.  I also think a game can benefit (sometimes) by expanding to be inclusive to people with different abilities, ages, and interests.  Of course, the devs are in the best position to assess this and make the ultimate decisions on what criticisms they take into consideration when plotting out what they want to do.  I don't believe anyone here thinks TLD is a bad game - or else they wouldn't be here suggesting improvements instead of being elsewhere, playing something else.

Well said. 

[hozz1235]

Wow, leave for one day and look at all the chatter!

While I agree @peteloud may have gone a bit too far, I'm guessing he is frustrated and made an emotional post (we've all done it, myself included!).  Both he and @Leeanda have been active participants on this forum and I would really like them to stick around.  Each has their own "flavor" to contribute.

[Leeanda]

12 minutes ago, hozz1235 said:

Wow, leave for one day and look at all the chatter!

While I agree @peteloud may have gone a bit too far, I'm guessing he is frustrated and made an emotional post (we've all done it, myself included!).  Both he and @Leeanda have been active participants on this forum and I would really like them to stick around.  Each has their own "flavor" to contribute.

Im not  planning on going anywhere..but thank you😊.   

I get the frustration hozz but it's not the first time he's rubbed people up the wrong way.. whatever the game issue there's no need for being patronising or making it personal..

I'll be the first to admit I'm on here a lot😁

[AdamvR]

40 minutes ago, Leeanda said:

whatever the game issue there's no need for being patronising or making it personal..

that. Thank you @Leeanda for being more vocal about it.

[ManicManiac]

Leeanda has (as far as I have seen) always been a positive presence here.  I think things had definitely gone too far (at least from what I had read).

Also, I do not think that getting "frustrated" and making an "emotional" post should be viewed as an acceptable excuse for folks to get personally insulting towards another member of the community.

I encourage folks to report that kind of nonsense.

Edited November 3, 2023 by ManicManiac

[chrislacruz]

32 minutes ago, ManicManiac said:

Leeanda has (as far as I have seen) always been a positive presence here.

I have to agree, I don't post so much but I dip into the forums every other day or so for a read, and Leeanda is always a very positive presence.

More generally...

I don't know how many hours I have played (I wouldn't know how to check, but thousands I guess, but maybe not 5000!),  but whilst one can absolutely learn from people who have played a game a lot, you should always be open to other people, for whilst they may not have loads of game experience, they do have a different life experience, and sometimes that can be interesting.