questions about the story line and Great Bear Islands history?

[piddy3825]

Ok, so if you've been playing TLD for a while, we know a few things about Great Bear Island and it's History.

First, let me apologize in advance if I ramble too much, it's just that I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around some of things going on...

Ok, so now we know that GBI is also the home of a hundred year old prison housing some of the most heinous criminals in the land.  
So if GBI had been so severely plagued by the economic collapse and nearly everyone had already previously left, then why were prisoners still being sent to the island?  I find it unfathomable that the authorities on the mainland would be able to maintain a prison complex with food, medical supplies, fuel and personnel considering that
earthquakes and landslides that have taken their toll on the islands infrastructure prior to the "electromagnetic event" are making it practically impossible to travel around the island using the roads.

How was the prison system able to continue operations considering the majority of bridges and roadway tunnels have either collapsed or are blocked by the debris from landslides?

So, in the story then,  does the event occur before or after the prisoner bus gets caught in the landslide in Milton?   Is the event the cause of the landslide that ends up blocking the bus?  Why do we not find any dead guards in Milton?  Was Mathis and his crew on that bus?  When did the riot take place at BlackRock?  Did the prisoners get out when power went out during the event?  There's like 7 guard towers with skilled marksman, right?  Wouldn't there have been armed guards in the various lookout towers at all times?  why aren't there a bunch of dead convicts in the yard?  If the prison was understaffed, why would they be sending a bus load of convicts?   

I have so many questions now, I'm having a hard time trying to articulate them all.  Maybe somebody can shed some light?  I'd appreciate reading your responses and maybe if you have a question or two, you can ask yours and maybe get an answer or two.

If I were to pickup the game for the first time and just start playing the story line for the first time, I would have so many questions...  I still do...

 

 

[Cr41g]

Actually Blackrock isn't that unreasonable... Kingston Penitentiary here was a maximum security facility built in 1835... designed to hold 600 inmates the population at one time exceeded 900 resulting in riots in 1954 and 1971. Budget cuts saw the end of KP in 2013 and at the time it housed a small number of Canada's most infamous. It could be assumed Blackrock could be similar to this example and the bus could have been taking inmates FROM the facility and not TO (or I could be wrong if information was revealed in episode 4 which I cannot play)

[piddy3825]

2 hours ago, Cr41g said:

.... the bus could have been taking inmates FROM the facility and not TO 

but didn't Hobbs say in Episode 3 that he was being sent there?  I'm not saying it's unreasonable to have a prison there, I was just thinking it's unlikely that they would continue to send prisoners there considering that most of the islands roadway and supply lines to the island are in shambles or nonexistent.  

off topic, did you ever see the movie No Escape?  It's about a prison island, convicts are taken there by helicopter.  No way off the island and the convicts who have been sent there are left to their own devices as to how they will survive.  Pretty entertaining.  

[Luca Loquax]

"No guards. No walls.  No problem"

Holy cow I actually saw that movie back in the 90s!  If it was any better it'd be unwatchable!  Think of Mad Max meets Lost. 

 

[UTC-10]

There was a fair amount anomalies about when (and where) certain events took place.  Can't be helped I guess.  

 

[Pınar51-06]

-First, little spoiler from all episodes ı guess-

I think you have a point because in episode 4 before the Jace’s intervention in prison, Mathis said we will rule this place (and something like that cause ı can’t remember his exact words) and ı thought who are these people you rule Mathis? Grey Mother? Jeremiah? Molly? (Hell no😝) ın some point ı didn’t understand his motivation.

In episode 2 there was a dead prison guard around Alan’s cave in Mystery Lake and we found a bloody letter that he was saying he regrets that he followed them and he deserved that he was dying alone.

Hobbs was another mystery.

 In episode 3 there were some prisoner that Molly killed. 
Are this prisoners escaped from prison or from Mathis? What were they thinking for going Mystery Lake or Pleasant Valley? Beside Grey Mother, why did not kill or torture Jeremiah for finding about GBI? Maybe Jeremiah would have spoken about Atwood or Signal Hill or Perseverance Mills.

Thanks for this topic and ı will be curious about answers.

[ChillPlayer]

I was curious only about one thing regarding the prisoners in EP4:

Why do they want to become the kings of GBI?

I mean the place is practically dead and no one's left to "rule", seems to be quite a low hanging fruit.

[acada]

I checked the building from outside. How many prisoners it could hold? I guess about 200. You dont need big staff to hold them there. 

 

The guards you lack around the bus. The bus doesnt have to be full. If there was 6-8 prisoners,I think 1 guard and 1 driver could be reasonable.

 

I found the story believable. After all prisoners did not really want to escape. 3 tried in summer and only 2 were able to return back alive.

[piddy3825]

8 hours ago, UTC-10 said:

There was a fair amount anomalies about when (and where) certain events took place.  Can't be helped I guess.  

 

 

7 hours ago, Pınar51-06 said:

-First, little spoiler from all episodes ı guess-

I think you have a point because in episode 4 before the Jace’s intervention in prison, Mathis said we will rule this place (and something like that cause ı can’t remember his exact words) and ı thought who are these people you rule Mathis? Grey Mother? Jeremiah? Molly? (Hell no😝) ın some point ı didn’t understand his motivation.

In episode 2 there was a dead prison guard around Alan’s cave in Mystery Lake and we found a bloody letter that he was saying he regrets that he followed them and he deserved that he was dying alone.

Hobbs was another mystery.

 In episode 3 there were some prisoner that Molly killed. 
Are this prisoners escaped from prison or from Mathis? What were they thinking for going Mystery Lake or Pleasant Valley? Beside Grey Mother, why did not kill or torture Jeremiah for finding about GBI? Maybe Jeremiah would have spoken about Atwood or Signal Hill or Perseverance Mills.

Thanks for this topic and ı will be curious about answers.

 

2 hours ago, ChillPlayer said:

I was curious only about one thing regarding the prisoners in EP4:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Why do they want to become the kings of GBI?

 

I mean the place is practically dead and no one's left to "rule", seems to be quite a low hanging fruit.

Ah, yes, anomalies indeed!  I guess John Milton said it best in Paradise Lost, that it is better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven.  That's probably why Mathis's ambitions beyond breaking his son out of solitary didn't go any further than they did.

I like a good story, but sometimes the apparent lack of continuity makes it a stretch, but I understand that it's just a game. 
That being said, a good story is easy to follow, but in this case it has many "hmmm" moments that don't always make sense.   If I were a brand new player to TLD and had just purchased the game and started by playing the campaigns for the first time in succession, I'd have a hard time following the time line of some events as they relate to story line.   Like "...does the event occur before or after the prisoner bus gets caught in the landslide in Milton?   Is the event the cause of the landslide that ends up blocking the bus?"

Ultimately we have three stories being intertwined, one being the story of a community of people who are affected by a mysterious disease or plague needing medical assistance, secondly a strange an unexplained phenomena that has caused all electrical devices to quite working and thirdly a story about a deranged criminal trying to break his psychopathic son out of a prison.  Weaving all this subplots together is what makes a good story.  Making them fit together is the "art" of telling a good story.  Of course there are plenty of subplots to keep the interest up, like the Forest Talkers for example, but now I'm really curious about the event phenomena and how Jace and her academic advisor, Atwood all tie into the story line.    

[Valuable Hunting Knife]

What do people think about the updated loading screen legends?  There is one in particular about the prison doctor that seems to be a big teaser for ep 5 plot...

[Leeanda]

25 minutes ago, Valuable Hunting Knife said:

What do people think about the updated loading screen legends?  There is one in particular about the prison doctor that seems to be a big teaser for ep 5 plot...

Legends? What legends?

[Valuable Hunting Knife]

5 minutes ago, Leeanda said:

Legends? What legends?

I possibly chose the wrong word- I meant the little vignettes such as 'mariner's peacoat- not the warmest coat out there, but close to it. stylish' *may not be the correct quote :)

[Leeanda]

14 minutes ago, Valuable Hunting Knife said:

I possibly chose the wrong word- I meant the little vignettes such as 'mariner's peacoat- not the warmest coat out there, but close to it. stylish' *may not be the correct quote

Oh I see! Sorry I thought it was some kind of thing you only get on the pc. Thanks!

[piddy3825]

@Valuable Hunting Knife, I believe you are referring to the loading screen references.  If you wanna check those out in their entirety,  see the post by @hozz1235 titled Blackrock "load screen messages"  where he has showcased all the "vignettes" as you put it, in one comprehensive post.   

At any rate, those snippets answer some questions but also expose some big holes in the story line that coulda/woulda/shoulda been addressed.  At least from my perspective it might have shed some light on what is going on in the background that lead us to where we are today in the game's story.

There's another post by @Andrey Grebenkov in the Wintermute thread where he post's a fairly comprehensive critique.  He raises some salient points regarding the story line imho and you may find what he writes to be interesting, if you'd like to take a look.  I believe it's called My review on the 4th episode

[Valuable Hunting Knife]

thanks Piddz! 👍 Great work from you and Hozz on the loading screen references, I'd totally missed that thread.  I wonder how many are clues to future plot developments and how many are red herrings?  bet the devs had fun with these!

 

Enjoyed Andrey's thoughts too, as you say, he's articulated things a lot of us hadn't fully realised.  Plenty of food for thought here...

Edited November 8, 2021 by Valuable Hunting Knife
typo and minor addition

[piddy3825]

1 hour ago, Valuable Hunting Knife said:

thanks Piddz! 👍 Great work from you and Hozz on the loading screen references, I'd totally missed that thread.  I wonder how many are clues to future plot developments and how many are red herrings?  bet the devs had fun with these!

 

Enjoyed Andrey's thoughts too, as you say, he's articulated things a lot of us hadn't fully realised.  Plenty of food for thought here...

Thanks for the thumbs up, but the loading screen references those are all @hozz1235
you can imagine how many times he had to flip flop from one region to another to play all those messages. I'm sure he spent hours in his attempt to locate and showcase them all.

I'm also glad to hear you perused @Andrey Grebenkovpost as well.  I'm looking forward to further discussion about the story line.  Maybe these discussions will influence the dev team on how they go about wrapping all these loose ends together in the final episode.

 

[SpitztheGreat]

Episode 4 was the first time I really noticed that the events of the game didn't jive. The aurora, blackrock, the Collapse/GBI's continued economic depression, the plague, plane crashes, there's a lot happening on this island that is supposedly completely isolated.

[piddy3825]

14 hours ago, SpitztheGreat said:

Episode 4 was the first time I really noticed that the events of the game didn't jive. The aurora, blackrock, the Collapse/GBI's continued economic depression, the plague, plane crashes, there's a lot happening on this island that is supposedly completely isolated.

yeah, the survival part of the game is great, but the story part is a little weak and could use some fleshing out.  I hope that we get some final answers to all the questions when the final episode is released.

[SpitztheGreat]

2 hours ago, piddy3825 said:

yeah, the survival part of the game is great, but the story part is a little weak and could use some fleshing out.  I hope that we get some final answers to all the questions when the final episode is released.

In hindsight, the story is too ambitious. A simpler story of survival where the main characters are trying to escape the island after the auroras have made life there impossible, would have been better. That may sound harsh, but I think Hinterland has done a very admirable job with Wintermute, the problem is that it's just too much. As I get older I'm a big believer in keeping things simple.

[piddy3825]

1 hour ago, SpitztheGreat said:

In hindsight, the story is too ambitious. A simpler story of survival where the main characters are trying to escape the island after the auroras have made life there impossible, would have been better. That may sound harsh, but I think Hinterland has done a very admirable job with Wintermute, the problem is that it's just too much. As I get older I'm a big believer in keeping things simple.

"too ambitious..."

That is a very diplomatic way to put it!  I too like the KISS method, Keep It Simple Simon.    
Have you checked out @Andrey Grebenkov post regarding his critique of episode 4?  He remarked on the lack of appearance by Methusela who so predominately appeared in all the other episodes.  I think Hinterland should have used his persona to tell more of the background story which could have tied some of the loose subplots together a little better in Episode 4.  As a dispassionate observer, I think his character could have been instrumental in that regard.  

[SpitztheGreat]

17 hours ago, piddy3825 said:

"too ambitious..."

That is a very diplomatic way to put it!  I too like the KISS method, Keep It Simple Simon.    
Have you checked out @Andrey Grebenkov post regarding his critique of episode 4?  He remarked on the lack of appearance by Methusela who so predominately appeared in all the other episodes.  I think Hinterland should have used his persona to tell more of the background story which could have tied some of the loose subplots together a little better in Episode 4.  As a dispassionate observer, I think his character could have been instrumental in that regard.  

I did see that, and I'm not sure I agree about Methusela. If we're thinking that a simpler story would have worked better, a mysterious/mystical stranger who acts as an omniscient narrator and speaks in riddles, then I'm not sure he would have helped things. Personally, I was never a huge fan of Methusela. Rarely do I see stories include characters like him and use them in a satisfactory way in the eyes of their audience. There's just too many pitfalls with these types of characters. I did notice his absence while playing the episode, and at no time did I think to myself "You know what would make this episode better? Methusela." I suspect the devs made the conscious decision to not include him and that it wasn't a simple oversight. If that's the case then I trust that Hinterland knows what they're doing since they know the nature of Methusela.

[stratvox]

On 10/21/2021 at 8:58 AM, Cr41g said:

Actually Blackrock isn't that unreasonable... Kingston Penitentiary here was a maximum security facility built in 1835... designed to hold 600 inmates the population at one time exceeded 900 resulting in riots in 1954 and 1971. Budget cuts saw the end of KP in 2013 and at the time it housed a small number of Canada's most infamous. It could be assumed Blackrock could be similar to this example and the bus could have been taking inmates FROM the facility and not TO (or I could be wrong if information was revealed in episode 4 which I cannot play)

You in Kingston?

[piddy3825]

1 hour ago, SpitztheGreat said:

... Methusela." I suspect the devs made the conscious decision to not include him and that it wasn't a simple oversight. If that's the case then I trust that Hinterland knows what they're doing since they know the nature of Methusela.

ohhh, now I'm intrigued.  Now I'd like to know the nature of his character.  The 5 "W's" are raging to be answered!  I certainly hope we get a satisfactory answer to this enigma of a character when the final story comes to conclusion.

[Docent-ø-Placebo]

On 10/21/2021 at 12:28 AM, piddy3825 said:

When did the riot take place at BlackRock?  Did the prisoners get out when power went out during the event?

In the Ep4 there was a very clear and specific answer to these questions. It was in the longest cutscene.

Franklin the Warden told Mackenzie that for some time after the event and the early auroras the penitentiary was working with backup generators, but further the staff no longer had the ability to restrain the inmates.

On 10/22/2021 at 10:21 AM, Pınar51-06 said:

I think you have a point because in episode 4 before the Jace’s intervention in prison, Mathis said we will rule this place (and something like that cause ı can’t remember his exact words) and ı thought who are these people you rule Mathis? Grey Mother? Jeremiah? Molly? (Hell no😝) ın some point ı didn’t understand his motivation.

Although after the plane crash in the Pleasant Valley there were a few passengers left surrounded by the care of the priest, , otherwise you are right - Mathis literally pretends to become the lord of an almost complete void. GBI is only of value to him if he somehow knows about Suzuki and the possibilities it provides.

[Docent-ø-Placebo]

On 10/22/2021 at 10:21 AM, Pınar51-06 said:

I think you have a point because in episode 4 before the Jace’s intervention in prison, Mathis said we will rule this place (and something like that cause ı can’t remember his exact words) and ı thought who are these people you rule Mathis? Grey Mother? Jeremiah? Molly? (Hell no😝) ın some point ı didn’t understand his motivation.

By the way, at the very beginning of the new episode Mathis mentioned the old lady he killed who wandered into the dam. Unfortunately, it looks very much like one of the characters you mentioned is no longer alive.

😔