I wish cabin fever was removed as a gameplay "feature"

[elpresidente]

Currently I am sitting in a car drinking water and eating bear steaks, I can't even turn around to look through the back window and am feeling miserable as hell. Is this what this game is supposed to be? Does this pass as entertainment? Why does this even exist? Who thought: "You know what we need - we need to make players spend exorbitant amount of time in cars, that's what we need."

[Lexilogo]

I will admit I feel a sense of dread coming every time the current difficulty level's Cabin Fever grace period wears off, and I really don't think the game should feel that way.

I remember a previous discussion on this, citing that Hinterland should take cues from the well-recieved Well Fed and instead make a buff that encourages players to stay outside rather than a debuff that forces players to leave shelter, and I agree with it for sure.

Cabin Fever mostly encourages unintuitive workarounds to what technically counts as "indoors" and boring, safe exploiting strategies for veteran players.

I genuinely can't name another survival game with a mechanic truly equivalent to Cabin Fever (Project Zomboid has boredom, but that's more like a dynamic need allieviated by a bunch of things, not a "you need to touch grass" meter) and that's probably not because Cabin Fever is an avant garde piece of game design that won't be appreciated in its own time, it's probably because Cabin Fever is a bad idea, and the intuitive & fun solution to "how do we stop players from bunkering" is to make food decay matter as a serious threat, instead of being essentially deleted from the game at Cooking level 5

[UpUpAway95]

In case you're unaware, you have the option of turning cabin fever off in the custom menu while leaving all the other settings the same as whatever difficulty you are currently playing.  You won't be able to progress your feats in a custom game (but that may not be an issue if you already have acquired your feats).

[Ghurcb]

I get what you mean, but it's rather uncommon for games to remove features. And I don't think The Long Dark is an exception. Can't recall a single change Hinterland would backtrack on, so frankly, cabin fever being removed is very unlikely.

What COULD happen, though (and what should happen, in my opinion) is a rework of cabin fever, where once you get it, instead of being unable to sleep, read, or pass time, you just start losing your max fatigue (let's say, at the rate of 25%/day). This would give you more agency as to when you go outside, while still discouraging the "hibernation" playstyle.

Also, being unable to pass time?! Whose stupid idea was that?! Let's say, you got cabin fever during a blizzard. You'd have to wait for it to end to go out. But you can't fast forward? WHY?! I could just leave the game on and go do some other stuff, reaching the same result. This is so ridiculous...

[ChillPlayer]

This has been discussed and debated many times since CF was introduced back in what, 2017 or so? Most - me included - don't like the mechanic, it's just counter-intuitive to leave your cosy home to spend a night under the stars. But to date this is the only mechanic which prevents camping in one place, which was very popular before CF to boost the number of days survived. People would load up on food and then spend weeks in the bed sleep/eating, which is why CF was added.

But over the years this has become more like a nuisance than a real problem, even on Interloper because there are caves all over the maps which are usually warm enough without a fire except for blizzards or very cold nights, depending on your cloths also.

[UpUpAway95]

I still don't think that a feature that can be so easily turned off should be such a big problem.  In addition to that it is a illness that people are being giving ample opportunity to manage the risk consciously.  It's not something that just randomly hits the player out of the blue.  The risk climbs over hours and hours.  If you manage your game such that you're spending sufficient times outside when there is no blizzard, you can ride out the blizzards without ever getting cabin fever.  In addition, outerloper players spend entire games completely outdoors without entering a single building, so going outside in a blizzard is not necessarily a death sentence.  You don't "have to wait for it to end to go out."

It shouldn't make a difference whether HL removes it (so all interloper games are "forced" to become easier) or the player decides to undertake the option to remove it by toggling it off in custom and making their version of interloper easier than the standard... except that in the later case, the player can also change other toggles to ultimately make their version of the game harder again in other ways.

Insomnia now is a bigger annoyance in the Far Territory because you have no idea when a glimmer fog may hit, there is no way to toggle it off in a custom game, and there is only one location where you can hide to avoid getting it.

Edited April 3, 2023 by UpUpAway95

[SuperStriker16]

Maybe make it where you have to spend 5 days 18 hours a day indoors, in a row before you get it instead of 3 days 16 hours a day in a row.

[UpUpAway95]

1 hour ago, SuperStriker16 said:

Maybe make it where you have to spend 5 days 18 hours a day indoors, in a row before you get it instead of 3 days 16 hours a day in a row.

There are a number of aspects they could/should tweak or change about it to make it a more palatable feature for what are, probably, the majority of players who play at difficulty levels where it is part of the the "standard.".  I don't think they will or should outright remove it, however.  An option to turn it off or on in my runs is good enough for me (and that can be done now).

[Moosemaster]

As a sufferer of actual cabin fever (yes) I can say it took 4 days so they aren’t that far off in game

[ridankrad]

12 hours ago, Ghurcb said:

I get what you mean, but it's rather uncommon for games to remove features. And I don't think The Long Dark is an exception. Can't recall a single change Hinterland would backtrack on, so frankly, cabin fever being removed is very unlikely.

What COULD happen, though (and what should happen, in my opinion) is a rework of cabin fever, where once you get it, instead of being unable to sleep, read, or pass time, you just start losing your max fatigue (let's say, at the rate of 25%/day). This would give you more agency as to when you go outside, while still discouraging the "hibernation" playstyle.

Also, being unable to pass time?! Whose stupid idea was that?! Let's say, you got cabin fever during a blizzard. You'd have to wait for it to end to go out. But you can't fast forward? WHY?! I could just leave the game on and go do some other stuff, reaching the same result. This is so ridiculous...

HL did actually remove/revert a feature. Currently you can pull torches from fires, which was how it was originally introduced. However, after introducing the ability to pull used torches from fires, HL later changed it so that you couldn't pull torches and instead pulled brands from fires. The brands couldn't be extinguished and relit (they just burned down the one time and were afterwards useless) or broken down and had worse duration than the torches. Apparently HL didn't like the concept because they removed brands from the game in a later update and reverted it back to the pulling-used-torches-from fires mechanic that we have today. It's interesting because the brands had their own unique art assets and their mechanics were a little bit different from torches, so I think at least some effort went into creating them, and yet they are now just a footnote in TLD's development history.

As for cabin fever, I'm of the opinion that it should be removed or, as you suggest, reworked. It has a significant effect on gameplay, but not a good one. My strategy is to spend time fishing or base out of a cave until the risk is cured. This works, but I don't enjoy having my gameplay pigeonholed like that. Another strategy is that I use outdoor fire barrels and stoves to do long cooking sessions. The fire barrel/stove means that wind cannot extinguish the fire. And fun fact, if the fire's temperature is high enough, you do not need to wear clothes even in a blizzard to avoid frostbite. So I do those cooking sessions not wearing any clothes out in the middle of a blizzard to avoid cabin fever. Besides being absurd, it's not really fun.

As for a rework, your idea sounds pretty good. A thought I've had is that the player should be able to read the non-skill books to help cure cabin fever, since doing so would stimulate the brain and improve mental health. If you wanted to really improve this, then make many different titles of non-skill books and make it so that re-reading a non-skill book would have less of a curative effect on cabin fever risk (with maybe a recharge after some significant period of time). This would encourage the player to amass a varied library as an end game goal and also make using even non-skill books for fuel a real dilemma. I also think that the player should not accumulate cabin fever risk (or accumulate at a slower rate) when the player is doing something productive -- e.g. crafting, mending, etc.

Edited April 3, 2023 by ridankrad

[Kranium]

Yeah, as someone who IRL is most certainly NOT going to get Cabin Fever (very rural BC person here, so I actually have gotten snowed in for days due to blizzards) it's kind of an annoying mechanic. I think the book reading idea has been suggested in the past, too. I like it. It's what I do when we're shut in & have no power. I don't find it boring IRL, just kind of like a comfy home-vacation. :)

[Glacia]

Cabin fever is the only feature that players have been requested to remove since the first days of the release.

It is not fun, it offers nothing to gameplay but an annoying experience, it is even absent at 'easy' game modes and on harder ones the veterans know exactly how to fully avoid it.

Cabin fever was created to encouraging players to explore and not staying inside for longer periods, in a game where the premise is 'Not rules, you play and do what you wish'. Cabin fever it's against the core concept of a 'Sandbox' experience, not a single player likes it and it offers nothing to the game.

However i understand the devs idea, this was created to restrict a bit certain ways to play. The 'well fed' bonus was added to prevent players to do Hibernation, and it works perfectly, not just encouraging to stay healthy but also rewarding the player for doing it.

In all the years of the game several players have suggested changes to cabin fever, included:

- A 'Sanity' need, much like Green Hell or other survival games. This could be the best option but a very complex to add/balance, this is because we are likely never gonna see this addition.

- Nerfing or changing cabin fever on harder settings. This makes the system even meaningless.

- A reverse system, very like well fed. Like if you stay 'Motivated' (For a example, stay outdoors or move X distances, do certain tasks) give you a buff like 'Motivated'. The buff for a example could give the player a bonus of stamina regain, less fatigue drains or a bunch of usefull things.

This encourages players to stay active.

This in my oppinion is the best choice if the devs want to keep the 'cabin fever' system.

And of course removing it, it's still a very requested choice and with the current status of the system i see no reasons to not do it.

[UpUpAway95]

1 hour ago, Glacia said:

Cabin fever is the only feature that players have been requested to remove since the first days of the release.

And of course removing it, it's still a very requested choice and with the current status of the system i see no reasons to not do it.

You don't remember the number of people demanding that sprains be removed, until HL gave them the option in custom to disable them?... and the number of people who have continued to demand reworks to the system because you shouldn't be able to just slap a bandage on them and go on or because they find the slope indicator "immersion breaking."  I don't think I can recall a single feature added since I started playing that has not be asked to be removed right after it was added.

What does "insomnia" add to gameplay this time around... and what would a "mental health" system add?  Micromanaging and annoyance... because that's what diseases in a survival game do... prevent the player from just going off and doing everything without risk of something annoying or irritating happening to them.  In the case of TLD, it doesn't take much to manage the risk of cabin fever without going to extremes like (as another person posted here) cooking naked in a blizzard.  I've watched 100s of hours of streamers playing on Loper who haven't gotten cabin fever and have essentially just played the game and only avoiding long crafting session indoors (easily done by just using FM as your preferred forge).

[LunarLime]

I sort of agree.

From what I remember, Cabin Fever is a relic feature, back in a time when the game had online leaderboards, which is something that no longer exists (Which, in my opinion is a good thing). I think the idea was to give players that 'hibernated' a sort of hurdle, that would make the playstyle less effective at getting on the leaderboards. 

But I do think it should be removed, or at least reworked. Maybe have it where it only reduces the effectiveness of sleep, like a reverse herbal tea effect. OR another idea is to make it so you can't pass time while indoors, but can still do productive activities, like crafting, or reading research books.

[UpUpAway95]

14 hours ago, diggity said:

Been requesting and even demanding its removal/rework for years, apparently it's not going to happen unless someone does a hunger strike.   In the meantime rather than stay indoors by the cozy fire, I will wander around outside in extreme life-threatening conditions because I'm "feeling a bit cooped up" even though I've spent months/years already wandering around outside and have to, to survive. Sure why not.

Come on - it's literally 24 hours that you have to spend outdoors (if you happen to have managed your indoor/outdoor balance poorly enough that you actually got cabin fever)... and fishing huts and caves count as being outdoors... and there's a ton of caves in this game.  Not to mention the fact that your fires last longer the colder the surrounding air, so there's a definite benefit to cooking in caves (where the fire is sheltered anyways).  You also don't have to stop your normal outdoor activities...  You could go off to the Ravine and pick up birch bark, hunt deer, and stone rabbits to your heart's content... cook it all up in any one of the 3 caves (one of which even has a bed) in the zone and never have to worry about a predator... a pretty fun way to spend 24 hours in this game.

Edited April 4, 2023 by UpUpAway95

[Glacia]

Correction, i mean "most players" rather than just players. Indeed several systems have been requested to be removed but no one like cabin fever.

[Glacia]

16 minutes ago, UpUpAway95 said:

Come on - it's literally 24 hours that you have to spend outdoors (if you happen to have managed your indoor/outdoor balance poorly enough that you actually got cabin fever)... and fishing huts and caves count as being outdoors... and there's a ton of caves in this game.  Not to mention the fact that your fires last longer the colder the surrounding air, so there's a definite benefit to cooking in caves (where the fire is sheltered anyways).  You also don't have to stop your normal outdoor activities...  You could go off to the Ravine and pick up birch bark, hunt deer, and stone rabbits to your heart's content... cook it all up in any one of the 3 caves (one of which even has a bed) in the zone and never have to worry about a predator... a pretty fun way to spend 24 hours in this game.

Experienced players almost never face cabin fever because of the adapted playstyle, and even if you get it, you can cure relatively easy.

That's my point, cabin fever isn't problematic or hard to deal, but offers nothing interesting to the game. I think people complaining or asking for removal, just do it because they find the feature as an annoyance, not because they have problems to deal with it.

[UpUpAway95]

3 minutes ago, Glacia said:

Correction, i mean "most players" rather than just players. Indeed several systems have been requested to be removed but no one like cabin fever.

IDK why... broken ribs are irritating, last longer, and do a lot to "pidgeon-hole" the player's gameplay (all the complaints about cabin fever given here).  I've heard lots of players state that they are the absolute worst aflliction in the game.

 

1 minute ago, Glacia said:

Experienced players almost never face cabin fever because of the adapted playstyle, and even if you get it, you can cure relatively easy.

That's my point, cabin fever isn't problematic or hard to deal, but offers nothing interesting to the game. I think people complaining or asking for removal, just do it because they find the feature as an annoyance, not because they have problems to deal with it.

I disagree... with less negativity about it and just little adaptive gameplay, it can encourage the player to spend an enjoyable 24 hours in the Ravine.  I can teach new players to pay attention and balance their time spent indoors with time spent outdoors... enabling them to become "experienced" players in that aspect.

Also, I asked, what do sprains add to the gameplay or food poisoning or insomnia... just irritation.

Further, you contradict yourself... you said in an earlier post that a particular type of rework would "make the system meaningless."  To do that, it cannot actually be meaningless now.

You also said that not a single player likes it - Guess what - I'm a single player and I like it OK... better than sprains, better than broken ribs, and from what I can tell so far, better than insomnia.  I like being able to tell when some illness is going to hit me... which I can do with cabin fever and parasites.  I can also logically know when I'm taking  a big risk for food poisoning and, to some degree, broken ribs.  I can't yet predict a glimmer fog (although, on the plus side, those only hit in the Far Territory (so far at least).

[elpresidente]

I find it annoying because even though I am doing normal everyday activities, at some point the game decides that this is not nearly enough and I must be punished for doing what every sane person in a snowy freezing environment will do - stay inside a comfy home when they don't have a reason to be outside. So I spend one day making a coat and another day making bow and arrows and the game is like "OMG you are losing your mental state! Get out in this blizzard RIGHT NOW and enjoy the outdoors!" This is utterly ridiculous and makes no sense. It is VERY immersion breaking.

[Moosemaster]

57 minutes ago, elpresidente said:

I find it annoying because even though I am doing normal everyday activities, at some point the game decides that this is not nearly enough and I must be punished for doing what every sane person in a snowy freezing environment will do - stay inside a comfy home when they don't have a reason to be outside. So I spend one day making a coat and another day making bow and arrows and the game is like "OMG you are losing your mental state! Get out in this blizzard RIGHT NOW and enjoy the outdoors!" This is utterly ridiculous and makes no sense. It is VERY immersion breaking.

Much more realistic that you would think. I was stuck in a room for a week with a game console and I still developed cabin fever within 4 days

[ridankrad]

17 minutes ago, Moosemaster said:

Much more realistic that you would think. I was stuck in a room for a week with a game console and I still developed cabin fever within 4 days

Did you cure your cabin fever by living out of a cave or fishing hut? That's how it works in TLD.

[Moosemaster]

14 minutes ago, ridankrad said:

Did you cure your cabin fever by living out of a cave or fishing hut? That's how it works in TLD.

No I cured it by spending time at my friends house and doing a lot of outside work. In a TLD situation the only way to get rid of cabin fever would be to spend time outside. We are lucky he has the symptoms he does, things could be a LOT worse that he gets.  Life for one he could develop a need for more food or depression. Both of which are not as easily fixed.

Edited April 4, 2023 by Moosemaster

[Moosemaster]

3 minutes ago, diggity said:

Was it a lockdown?

No my roommates were all sick so I couldn’t leave my room. And at the time it was the summer and we didn’t have enough rooms in our apartment so one of us who will remain unnamed lived on the couch. This was like 2018 and I had nothing to do as a collage student who didn’t have much money in the first place. Managed to get my old as hell PS3 running on a shitty TV I moved into my room. I became a portal master pretty quickly

Edited April 4, 2023 by Moosemaster

[ridankrad]

5 minutes ago, Moosemaster said:

No I cured it by spending time at my friends house and doing a lot of outside work. In a TLD situation the only way to get rid of cabin fever would be to spend time outside. We are lucky he has the symptoms he does, things could be a LOT worse that he gets.  Life for one he could develop a need for more food or depression. Both of which are not as easily fixed.

What you did IRL to cure cabin fever is quite different than in TLD. What you describe sounds like the effects of isolation which you cured by spending time with people. That makes perfect sense. But in TLD survivor mode, there's no one left. Hence my earlier suggestion to make non-skill books a resource since they are a window back to a time when other people existed and might offer a reprieve to the survivor's state of mind. I also suggested that staying active (e.g. crafting, cooking, etc.) should be treated differently than just passing time aimlessly. What do you think of these ideas?

[Moosemaster]

Just now, ridankrad said:

What you did IRL to cure cabin fever is quite different than in TLD. What you describe sounds like the effects of isolation which you cured by spending time with people. That makes perfect sense. But in TLD survivor mode, there's no one left. Hence my earlier suggestion to make non-skill books a resource since they are a window back to a time when other people existed and might offer a reprieve to the survivor's state of mind. I also suggested that staying active (e.g. crafting, cooking, etc.) should be treated differently than just passing time aimlessly. What do you think of these ideas?

I mean I never said these were not bad ideas I never even commented on them, nor did I defend or attack cabin fever as a condition. Dunno why ur upset brother I just said the symptoms are realistic and have real world fixes.