candles from animal fat

[CODEwater208]

similar to the how you receive lamp oil from cooking a fish, you would receive tallow from harvesting meat. you could melt the tallow down inside a pot and craft candles with the melted tallow, cloth or cured gut for a wick, and a can to hold it. The candles would last certain amount of times depending on how much tallow you used on the candle. It would be placeable around the insides of buildings, as sort of a replacement of the lantern for mid to late game. 

[Dougydoug37]

I like this idea a lot, setting them up in your house could be very nice. 

[WillemD]

I also like this idea. You can make it possible to read a book by candle light in the evening when the sun is down, or do other stuff for which you need light.

I can imagine long burning candles will affect game balance. If I can maintain a fire permanently using candles, I would need far less matches, thus making the game easier. So I would suggest making them burn 3-4 hours or so. This is enough to do some chores in the evening inside a house, but doesn't allow you to carry over a fire towards the next day.

 

[Mr.Luck]

Great idea!

[ManicManiac]

I recommend using the search function, because there has been been a lot of good conversation about this idea in several threads in the past.

Personally, I think candles kind of fall in the the category of "player convenience" in my opinion, and I'm generally not a fan of things that would only serve to make life easier for the player.  I do think we have plenty of light sources already (lanterns, torches, flares, campfires, matches, flashlights, and even flare-gun shells).

However, I do see the merit in the crafted component, which does add a need to invest time and effort in the gathering of materials (as well as time expended in the crafting).  That aspect I think is interesting, but with lamp oil being relatively cheap and readily available at any fishing hole... I feel like that would simpler than going though an extended process just to make a "longer lasting light source."

I think it's better for the player to have to pay attention and carefully manage their resources (this includes their light sources).

Edited October 10, 2020 by ManicManiac

[oplli]

I second this. it is a great idea!

 however being able to make long burning light source with only animal fat, it is absolutely cheaty.

there are ideas to make it less abused:

-if you melt the animal fat inside a cooking pot it will be unusable to cook water or meat after. or it could just not be possible to melt fat inside (better idea i think)

-animal fat is not as hard as candles so what i suggest, is to make the candle you need: a recycled can, animal fat, and a tinder plug. you basically have to melt your fat on the fire and put a tinderplug inside. then you wait until its cold and you can use it after that. we could be able to recover the recycled can after it has burned down.

[oplli]

4 minutes ago, ManicManiac said:

I recommend using the search function, because there has been been a lot of good conversation about this idea in several threads in the past.

it is better to create new posts it shows how we are interested in ideas.

[ManicManiac]

@oplli

I wasn't criticizing the making a new thread.  I was expressing to folks who might be reading the newer thread to also consider using the search function because we've had some great conversations pertaining to the subject at hand in other previous threads.    Again, it's not a criticism... it's trying to refer folks to other sources pertaining to the topic of discussion.

Edited October 11, 2020 by ManicManiac

[WillemD]

On 10/11/2020 at 1:54 AM, oplli said:

I second this. it is a great idea!

 however being able to make long burning light source with only animal fat, it is absolutely cheaty.

there are ideas to make it less abused:

You could always make it impossible to use the candle to light another fire or a torch. A bit unrealistic, but it solves the problem of using candles to maintain a fire.

Using a recycled can for a candle is also a good idea, but it might make the programming code a bit too complicated. Maybe there could be specialized candle holders that can be found in the world (inside houses), which you can fill to make a candle.

I think you should also make it impossible to walk around with a candle, as we have a storm lantern for that already.

[oplli]

42 minutes ago, WillemD said:

Using a recycled can for a candle is also a good idea, but it might make the programming code a bit too complicated. Maybe there could be specialized candle holders that can be found in the world (inside houses), which you can fill to make a candle.

well recycled can have durability. once you crafted a candle and the candle has been consumed. you just get and empty 0% condition, unsuable, recycled can. it is better beacause the candle holder would be only useful for the candles themselves.

[odizzido]

it might be interesting to harvest fat from the meat we would otherwise eat. For example you harvest a 1kg 100 calorie beat meat and it gives two items, a 50 calorie low fat steak and candle materials. I just made those numbers up but the idea is that you sacrifice food for light, it's not free.

I also think it would be nice to have another light source for people who disable fishing(me).

[Omnijack]

On 5/13/2020 at 2:45 AM, CODEwater208 said:

similar to the how you receive lamp oil from cooking a fish, you would receive tallow from harvesting meat. you could melt the tallow down inside a pot and craft candles with the melted tallow, cloth or cured gut for a wick, and a can to hold it. The candles would last certain amount of times depending on how much tallow you used on the candle. It would be placeable around the insides of buildings, as sort of a replacement of the lantern for mid to late game. 

I think the tallow candle idea is great, I like how crafting works in TLD. This would be a good use of spare empty cans. I am, however, concerned this might make an easy source of portable fire, so perhaps shouldn't be able to start a fire (as the lantern cannot). In general, I'd like to see more crafting added to the game.

If the empty can is permanently destroyed by making a candle, it'd be another finite resource. The wind should have a very high chance to blow out candles.

 

On a semi-related idea.. can we disassemble a lantern to get the firestriker out of it, with condition equal to the lantern?

 

[oplli]

9 hours ago, Omnijack said:

I think the tallow candle idea is great, I like how crafting works in TLD. This would be a good use of spare empty cans. I am, however, concerned this might make an easy source of portable fire, so perhaps shouldn't be able to start a fire (as the lantern cannot)

 

On a semi-related idea.. can we disassemble a lantern to get the firestriker out of it, with condition equal to the lantern?

 

well i disagree it is not an easy source of fire. you have to craft it and light it with a match. it is really sensitive to the wind and its brother the torch... its the same thing and it already exist. only differences, you can light it with everything and it is not that sensitive to the wind and you can just pop it off the fire within a second. so we already have portable sources of fire in the game better than the candle. i dont see a problem in lighting a fire with the candle.

i would really like be able to harvest the firesteel of the lantern. great idea. maybe once you got that firesteel it is almost unusable until you craft it a handle? (before making a handle it would give you like 30%chances to light a fire) I am shure it is an idea that needs its own topic. more people could give their opinion.

[odizzido]

The problem I have with low chance fires is that it would be annoying. Clicking through the menu 20 times is annoying. What I would prefer is having the time it takes be variable to simulate failures without going through the menu so often.

And yeah, torches are already really good. I always pull them to have for starting fires or whatever else I need. Candles would just be higher effort torches with benefit in certain situations, if you choose to make them.

Edited October 12, 2020 by odizzido

[oplli]

4 hours ago, odizzido said:

The problem I have with low chance fires is that it would be annoying. Clicking through the menu 20 times is annoying. What I would prefer is having the time it takes be variable to simulate failures without going through the menu so often.

And yeah, torches are already really good. I always pull them to have for starting fires or whatever else I need. Candles would just be higher effort torches with benefit in certain situations, if you choose to make them.

you dont even have to craft a torch you can just take one right off the fire it will have between 50 and 20% of durability left. i agree with you it is annoying to have 30% left so i see that from two perspectives. First i said that to make happy the people who thinks that the candle would be too good to light fires with and if it is to make the candle happen i reallt dont care. second is that it would make people less interested in starting fires with candles wich i dont care too beacause i already carry a torch on me, but i have a better idea for this one : once you light your candle you can blow it if you want but you will have to wait until it is cold enough so the fat will not spill all over your things. or if you arre in a hurry and that you put it in you inventory right after it will loose some fat.

[Dan_]

I'd love to have candles just for the cool screenshots and base decor, game mechanics notwithstanding.

Make it so that the wick uses cloth so they're not "free" and I'm good.

[odizzido]

I think woodwick candles are too well known and our character is already incredibly incompetent in a number of ways so I would prefer not to be more so. Would cloth even work?

[WillLong]

In real life you will starve yourself on protein rich, low fat diets. So that could figure into the game mechanics too - a trade off of light for the ability to metabolize calories.
 

Pine pitch would be interesting to add to a torch to extend its life. Again, a real world example. 

Edited October 14, 2020 by WillLong

[Dan_]

On 10/13/2020 at 11:23 PM, odizzido said:

I think woodwick candles are too well known and our character is already incredibly incompetent in a number of ways so I would prefer not to be more so. Would cloth even work?

Yeah I kinda agree, I suggested cloth as a wick but I'm not sure it would work either. I suppose rendering the tallow takes firewood and that alone would make the candles "not free", add in some prep time to remove impurities from the tallow and we're good.

I know this is OT but ideas like these leave me wanting for mod support, HL dev. schedule is already tight given they always seem to be hiring more and more people so having extra people working on less crucial features would be cool, the modding tools would take up dev time as well so there's that aspect. 

[odizzido]

Yes, mods would solve a lot of issues people have.

[ajb1978]

The problem with animal fat candles in my experience is that its melting point is way too low.  Normal candles liquefy a little bit of the wax, but most of it remains solid.  Animal fat candles, so much of the fat melts that the wick dips below the surface and snuffs itself out.  Experiments using conventional wicks, wood wicks, cardboard, etc. all failed.  A fiberglass torch wick technically DID work, but produced so much black smoke I consider it a failure as well.

Ultimately I settled on making soap.  It's a healthier use of rendered fat than frying potatoes!