On Brooms

[Blunt Dragon]

I'm not sure if this has already been brought up already, but this is something I've been annoyed by recently. I don't get why you need a hatchet to break down the brooms. I understand that's the limitation between real life and the game, but it kinda seems like a bit much to require a hatchet for a thing that's only gonna give you one reclaimed wood. I would say, if it requires a hatchet to break down, it should also give you a tinder plug from the bristles or something. Otherwise I feel like it makes sense to be able to break it down without that, with of course it just taking a little longer. It's a tiny thing, but it jostled my immersion a bit.

Am I completely off-base or do you all agree?

[Tactical Ex]

I completely agree. I can snap a wooden broom over my knee and you better believe I'll do that if I'm freezing and need fire. I think that boom sticks made of wood these days are actually pretty strong  and they are compressed but I still wouldn't need a hatchet to "dis-assemble". As for the tinder, that also makes sense to me. The material is pretty perfect for a tinder bundle and I think it would be worth 3.

[Ice Hole]

31 minutes ago, Tactical Ex said:

boom sticks

The pillows though.

[Valuable Hunting Knife]

 

[manolitode]

4 hours ago, Blunt Dragon said:

I'm not sure if this has already been brought up already, but this is something I've been annoyed by recently. I don't get why you need a hatchet to break down the brooms. I understand that's the limitation between real life and the game, but it kinda seems like a bit much to require a hatchet for a thing that's only gonna give you one reclaimed wood. I would say, if it requires a hatchet to break down, it should also give you a tinder plug from the bristles or something. Otherwise I feel like it makes sense to be able to break it down without that, with of course it just taking a little longer. It's a tiny thing, but it jostled my immersion a bit.

Am I completely off-base or do you all agree?

I'm not a great mathematician but now that you mention it, breaking down 1 piece of wood into 1 piece of wood don't seem so fair.

[Ice Hole]

Consider the situation of breaking down a 0.3 kg torch to get a 0.15 kg stick which provides four minutes of fuel compared to eight minutes fuel.  

 

The stick is less mass than the torch but those extra two minutes to break down equates into an extra four minutes of fuel.

Long Dark Wizardry!

[Guest jeffpeng]

6 hours ago, Blunt Dragon said:

It's a tiny thing, but it jostled my immersion a bit.

Can we stop referring to everything that slightly doesn't make sense as immersion breaking?

[Guest jeffpeng]

40 minutes ago, Ice Hole said:

Long Dark Wizardry!

I tried really hard to come up with a clever way of explaining this. But I can't. The Long Dark apparently does not follow the rules of thermodynamics. And you know what that means: perpetuum mobiles, possibly even with a positive energy coefficient. You know what that means? Unlimited energy. And you know what that means? Right.

Time travel.

[ajb1978]

2 hours ago, jeffpeng said:

Time travel.

i.e. save scumming.

[Guest jeffpeng]

3 hours ago, ajb1978 said:

i.e. save scumming.

Well that's more along the lines of time travelling between multiple quantum realities until you find the one you like best. That's probably even more energy intensive and probably needs an aurora powered flux capacitor. Also will probably destroy the universe. But that's a small price to pay for a second pair of underpants.

[Blunt Dragon]

20 hours ago, manolitode said:

I'm not a great mathematician but now that you mention it, breaking down 1 piece of wood into 1 piece of wood don't seem so fair.

A fair point, but if you're gonna bring up that level of logic, then why don't ask why you need a hatchet at all. Or better yet, why it takes 8 whole minutes to smash a broom with an axe.

My confusion was more mechanical. Compare it to the plank, where you also need a hatchet, it takes nine minutes, and gets you two reclaimed woods. For one extra minute in comparison, you get twice the yield. I know it's nit-picking, but it gave me pause is all.

18 hours ago, jeffpeng said:

Can we stop referring to everything that slightly doesn't make sense as immersion breaking?

My immersion was shattered. Also, I'm very disappointed that you can't use the broom to fly around and play Quidditch on. How dare you Hinterlands?! For shame.

[dbmurph22]

To be fair, you did say, Dragon, that your immersion was just jostled.  I do agree though that I think the cries of "immersion breaking" are a bit overused.  But one shouldn't be blamed for the overuse of others.  I do think it can be a good way to think of this game specifically (it's very much trying to balance out many types of being), but many times it's coming from wrong place of understanding (not saying that's you) - even apart from those obvious cases where people are thinking straight sim (it's a basic repeated tenet this game is not).  Even those who know it's not that, some make those immersion cries and are still maybe missing (IMO) some understanding of the game's nature.

There is a lot of things in this game that don't make sense as was brought up earlier with things like the torches.  And there are so many more in any given playthrough where you're like "I shouldn't have it this good."  There are other artificial limitations...just like one playthrough someone was discussing not being able to just take the birch bark off the trees.  There really are so many situations that are just nonsensical in most realest of real terms and sometimes some inconsistencies within its own economy (but hopefully not too much0

I like thinking about how this game works because it's very interesting where it hits and what it's doing.

Most of us already know the whole bit of "this is a survival game, but not a survival sim."  A survival sim would be extensive, so much minutiae and tremendously boring.  Staying alive is boring work.  What this game does is create representations, not copies, similes or whatever.  And even for the boring bits.  So we get the representation of the boring routines, but it's not a copy of the full experience.  It shouldn't be.  That representative terminology helped me tremendously.

Okay, let's get past that.  Going to post tangential thoughts.  Some of the "inconsistencies" of the game (at least as it relates to a position of reality) work well in conjunction with considering some of the more fantastical elements of the game.  Right from the first disclaimer screen we get info on the wolf behavior.  We have the IP.  The auroras.  The ending of episode 3 (not going to post any spoilers).  This game and universe functions very, very well as sort of a surrealistic endeavor.  It cross cuts and is couched in a very gritty and realistic scenario and world.  Being outdoors.  Touching snow, trying to make a fire - almost more real than the day to day life of most, but it's a representative setting with this slight surrealism.  There is almost a detailed impressionism in the whole endeavor, to me.  The art style is also consistent with that, but I'm not even sure it was intended to be as such.

Holding this all together is an individual first person strategy game.   What is flowing on screen is a visual board game with decision making and choices.  So there is stats and qualities and numbers and such, but they don't always make complete sense, but do they make sense and are they compelling as part of the strategy game.  Yet, they still have to be faithful to be representative enough of the setting and experience to keep you engaged.  So it's a fine balancing act that's crossing all those elements so I think it's fine to analyze whether certain elements are working in that manner and capturing what's needed to keep the world going in that manner and also being a good game.  But I don't like it when there are repeated immersion complaints that either are about "real" survival (many know this) or even immersion complaints that are maybe even overly nitpicky missing the overall POV of where this game is trying to hover at.  

We all think this is a great game and otherwise we wouldn't be here.  Yes it sometimes isn't perfect and at times there are bits that aren't working perfectly.  But it's somehow caught lightning in the bottle with this little niche and that's why I think the IP is really liked and they know there's something to it (and keep persisting with it).  This mish mash of semi-surrealistic elements, representative survival, a strategy choice making game, and an experience all in this super real, but not always really real world in the snow and grime and outdoors and growling dangers.  And "immersion" or maybe we can just say engagement, is a two way game.  

Thanks for reading.

Also I like brooms.  I laugh when I think someone thought they could keep this dusty dirty place clean.

 

 

[odizzido]

I think that’s what modding is good for. People can tweak their experience to match their taste. 

I fall on the more realiatic side myself, but I still know it’s a game. For example I modded space engineers to have more realistic hydrogen fuel. Previously you could “burn” ice for power but I changed it so you require more power(the actual amount it would take in real life if we could do it at 99% efficiency) than it gives. It was only a few hours of work and really changes it in a way that I like. I am looking forward to doing this in TLD too. 

[Guest jeffpeng]

On 1/18/2020 at 3:54 AM, odizzido said:

I am looking forward to doing this in TLD too. 

Good luck as modding right now is in a bit of a pickle if I might say so.

[ThePancakeLady]

34 minutes ago, jeffpeng said:

Good luck as modding right now is in a bit of a pickle if I might say so.

Hinterland has told us they are working on adding official Modding support to the game. A number of times. 

When it becomes available, we modders will go to work on creating new content, QoL fixes some people want, or just turning the entire island into a giant Pancake, with Maple Syrup rivers, ponds, and seas.