Well Fed Buff

[TheEldritchGod]

SLOW. GODDAMN. CLAP.

Well Played, Raph

Well Played.

[TheEldritchGod]

And by the way, just to be perfectly clear, as someone who's written over a hundred books describing various forms of game theory analysis of many different game systems, this game mechanic is so brilliant there is no amount of praise that I can heap upon whomever come up with it that will do justice.

The simplicity of the new game mechanic, combined with the long term implications and the game balance effects is just amazing. Seriously. In one stroke you gave people a way to heal faster in interloper, you gave everyone an increase in carry capacity, and you created a motivation to eat all the meat you have been storing up and not to do starvation/hibernation.

Furthermore you did it without nerfing the existing mechanics. AND that 72 hour window makes it so you really have to work at it, so it isn't a given, but is definitely a reward as long as you stay on top of it.

As someone who figured out how to make a toad hop along at mach 12 in d20 3.5 (if I can include 3.0 rules, the frog can run fast enough to go 4.6 light years in 6 seconds. But only if you include how far it can stick out its' tongue.) , I consider myself a professional power gaming munchkin. I am an expert at finding loop holes and rules to abuse. THIS? This is exactly the sort of game balancing that I want to see. It brings what the players want to the table without any conceivable drawbacks and a truly proper cost for the benefit. It gives many options, with one adjustment. This sort of conservation of game design is not something you see, as of late.

I doubt anyone else who isn't a serious, die hard, number crunching rules lawyer like me will see the utter perfection of this new buff, but I really don't care. It has been a long time I have seen elegance in game design. The over all trend lately is BIGGER BETTER FASTER MORE! But this...?

This... this is sublime. This brings a tear to my eye. This sort of thing gives me hope that maybe the entire goddamn gaming industry isn't turning into a Michael Bay trailer.

Again. Slow. Goddamn. Clap.

[FunkyFuggerson]

While I do play only interloper nowadays, Im not sure im a diehard number cruncher. This buff is pretty great though, but your acting like its the second coming of RNJesus! Least I now have a use for that pile of rotting bear steak!

[TheEldritchGod]

53 minutes ago, FunkyFuggerson said:

While I do play only interloper nowadays, Im not sure im a diehard number cruncher. This buff is pretty great though, but your acting like its the second coming of RNJesus! Least I now have a use for that pile of rotting bear steak!

How do I put this...

When you are forced to eat recycled poo for years on end, A hamburger is heaven.

The bar has been set so low, as far as my expectations, this is like watching the birth of a sun. When someone gets something right in the gaming industry as of late, I feel compelled to tell them in the hopes they keep doing it. I am the most critical critic you will ever meet. I do not say nice things unless it is deserved. It has been so long since I have seen anything that I would say something TRULY positive about, it's mind boggling. I mean, dear god do I have to list off a thousand failures in this past year alone? They didn't add loot boxes. They didn't make it so you can buy your way to success. They didn't add explosions. They didn't subvert my expectations.

Yes. Just the act of doing the job well is worth a "come to Jesus" moment because these days, it's a goddamn miracle when it happens.

I mean, Purple haired Cyborgs in WWII.  Need I say more?

All I want to do is point at it and say, "THIS!!! THIS!!! DO THIS!! KEEP DOING THIS!!! CAN YOU TELL EVERYONE ELSE TO DO THIS??? WE NEED MORE THIS!!! WHAT EVER BROUGHT YOU TO THIS, DO THAT! BUT MORE!!!"

[Dan_]

Couldn't really have said it better myself, major score for Hinterland. I usually eat all the steak I can with my characters in loper but this makes having to hunt for food actually a thing in mid to late game. The entire dynamic of survival has improved without jeopardizing the old meta. 

Beautifully done Hinterland. 

[FunkyFuggerson]

2 hours ago, TheEldritchGod said:

How do I put this...

When you are forced to eat recycled poo for years on end, A hamburger is heaven.

The bar has been set so low, as far as my expectations, this is like watching the birth of a sun. When someone gets something right in the gaming industry as of late, I feel compelled to tell them in the hopes they keep doing it. I am the most critical critic you will ever meet. I do not say nice things unless it is deserved. It has been so long since I have seen anything that I would say something TRULY positive about, it's mind boggling. I mean, dear god do I have to list off a thousand failures in this past year alone? They didn't add loot boxes. They didn't make it so you can buy your way to success. They didn't add explosions. They didn't subvert my expectations.

Yes. Just the act of doing the job well is worth a "come to Jesus" moment because these days, it's a goddamn miracle when it happens.

I mean, Purple haired Cyborgs in WWII.  Need I say more?

All I want to do is point at it and say, "THIS!!! THIS!!! DO THIS!! KEEP DOING THIS!!! CAN YOU TELL EVERYONE ELSE TO DO THIS??? WE NEED MORE THIS!!! WHAT EVER BROUGHT YOU TO THIS, DO THAT! BUT MORE!!!"

As someone who only has a few games they play the crap out of, I gotta say i didnt know this! Thanks 

[ltnshinysides]

I couldn't agree more. This is why I continue to defend Hinterland when updates get delayed and some items are still on the shelf. Because at the end of the day I would rather play the fantastic work that is "The Long Dark" by Hinterland than play the ok version of "The Long Dark"  by another so called AAA studio, the Meh version "The Long Dark 2" and finally the crap bag version by EA "The Long Dark 3" that kills all fond memories and the franchise forever. Hinterland may take a long time to get some content out, but hey, at least they don't count on their fans to mod their turdball into something great. And with that I will digress "cough" Konami also sucks "cough cough"

[Fuccimama]

Nono, TLD3 by EA will be great! It’ll come with the full game of Mystery Lake and CH for $69.99, but if you preorder, you’ll be able to get the expansion pack on launch date, that includes Pleasant Valley for $19.99!  Also! You’ll be able to get the “Hunter” add on, three weeks later for only $6.99. This exciting additional content will include a bow (get a blue one for and additional $3), and all sorts of craftables that are exactly like the ones you used in TLD and TLD2!

 

But wait! There’s more!

Every three months, they will offer a new expansion pack that has all the same exact exciting craftables, maps, and animals that you came to know and love, but now they’re all in THIS game too!! You see? EA is benevolent! EA is kind! Give EA your money!

[odizzido]

AAA game publishers are garbage. I haven't purchased one of their games in ages. I wish they would all go bankrupt and make way for better companies.

[ltnshinysides]

16 hours ago, Fuccimama said:

Nono, TLD3 by EA will be great! It’ll come with the full game of Mystery Lake and CH for $69.99, but if you preorder, you’ll be able to get the expansion pack on launch date, that includes Pleasant Valley for $19.99!  Also! You’ll be able to get the “Hunter” add on, three weeks later for only $6.99. This exciting additional content will include a bow (get a blue one for and additional $3), and all sorts of craftables that are exactly like the ones you used in TLD and TLD2!

 

But wait! There’s more!

Every three months, they will offer a new expansion pack that has all the same exact exciting craftables, maps, and animals that you came to know and love, but now they’re all in THIS game too!! You see? EA is benevolent! EA is kind! Give EA your money!

Do you work for EA? Because your pricing plan is right on track . Thanks for that all to real break down, but you must always remember to include  features that nobody asked for and then killing the game permanently so that no one will every touch it or make it again. EA= Why is there no poop emoji? Well played hinterland, well played...

[codfish107]

Raphael van Lierop's answer to when i asked about the hunger system in Milton Mailbag #17

"1 -- Yes. But I don't want to get too crazy with it, as I'm not sure hardcore nutrition simulation is really right for this game. I do think we can do more than we currently are, for sure."

That sly dog, they were already doing something for it before i even asked about it.

[TheEldritchGod]

19 hours ago, Fuccimama said:

Nono, TLD3 by EA will be great!

At this point in the conversation, while reaching for a can of lamp fuel, "Anyone got a few hundred bags of rock salt I can use? I need nothing to ever grow again where the smoking remains of a gaming company once stood."

[TheEldritchGod]

But for the record, if HLG wanted to make a DLC for 4.99 that was basically nothing more then a wide selection of reskins of items we already have, and nothing BUT cosmetic changes to items, so you don't NEED to buy the DLC to enjoy the game, I would gladly pay 4.99 for such a thing. HLG has earned the right to make a PURELY COSMETIC DLC and sell it at a reasonable price. In fact, I would welcome it. Half the fun is setting up the base and have a wider selection of "stock" for the Quonset Garage would be most welcome.

And as long as it was just reskins for purely cosmetic purposes, nobody who couldn't afford the extra 4.99 would be affected as far as the actual game play is concerned. As someone else pointed out, paying for something like, "The Bow" as a DLC would make such a purchase absolutely mandatory for someone to play the game, and if something is absolutely mandatory, then it should be part of the purchase price.

I have no problem with a game company trying to sell a "blue bow" for 3 dollars. Because if I have the ordinary bow, paying the 3 dollars to have it be blue is completely voluntary.  But if you gave me say, 50 items for 4.99, nothing but reskins? I'll slap that fin down on the counter right now.

And you can keep the change.

[DarKube]

Personally, I think the well fed buff is unreal, I shall prefer the opposite : you can only carry 25kg and you have 5% less condition.

[Fuccimama]

59 minutes ago, DarKube said:

Personally, I think the well fed buff is unreal, I shall prefer the opposite : you can only carry 25kg and you have 5% less condition.

“Food coma” debuff? Maybe that could come if yountry to eat after you’re full. 

[DarKube]

maybe

[MarrowStone]

You know, $2.50 horse armor that was (mostly) cosmetic used to be an utter outcry.  (It did offer a larger health pool but it wasn't required at all to fully enjoy Oblivion.)

Now it's hardly anything compared to what most gaming companies see as "acceptable".

[SneakySquid]

20 hours ago, DarKube said:

Personally, I think the well fed buff is unreal, I shall prefer the opposite : you can only carry 25kg and you have 5% less condition.

@DarKube I don't think you understand how ABSOLUTELY  genius that idea was:it nerfs starvation without being overly complicated and if you starve your not more punished than before for starving+its not actually that unreal:you are stronger when your well fed then when you've been starving for days.

 

[DarKube]

I know but I think in real life, when you starve, you are weakened and, in real life too, carry 35kg is a lot !

[Guest jeffpeng]

Please stop always trying to see GAME MECHANICS through the eyes of so-called real-world-realism. It's a game, it's fantasy setting. Sure Mac can't fly up a slope by eating beans beforehand, but things need to work different in games than they do in real life. I mean .... if real life would be so faneffingtastic.... why are you all playing TLD? 

[Serenity]

Psychologically people respond far better to rewards than punishments. There are plenty of examples where people freaked out when they were punished for certain behavior in games only to be fine or even happy with it once something was reworded or reworked to reward the opposite instead

[TheEldritchGod]

12 minutes ago, jeffpeng said:

Please stop always trying to see GAME MECHANICS through the eyes of so-called real-world-realism. It's a game, it's fantasy setting. Sure Mac can't fly up a slope by eating beans beforehand, but things need to work different in games than they do in real life. I mean .... if real life would be so faneffingtastic.... why are you all playing TLD? 

Well, to counter argue, there is RAI and RAW. Rules as intended, and rules as written. In video games, the rules as written are god, because there is no human being who can jump in and go, "Wait a sec, eating so much you get fat is going to slow you down. It's also going to make you so fat you can't wear the clothes you wear. That doesn't make sense. We should have some sort of size mechanic."

The RAW takes over because you can do stuff and the game engine only cares about what do the rules allow. Jumping makes sense, from a realistic point of view, but from a game mechanic point of view, because we don't "slide" down high angle surfaces, jumping would let anyone get outside of any map, eventually. It would allow you, no matter the height, get out of just about any area eventually.

The intent of the game is to simulate RL, but the game mechanics create limitations that prevent us from fully experiencing the "reality".

However, there's also a point where reality becomes un-fun.

We don't pee in the game, although pee exists in the world, because it's one of the fluff speech of the main character, "Suddenly that guy who drank his own pee doesn't seem so crazy." So pee exists, yet we cannot drink it.

We have an unlimted amount of plastic bottles to pee in. Why can't we pee in plastic bottles? later boil the pee to make the unsafe drinking water to potable water, and then drink our own pee?

Because that would be totally fucked up.

Who would want to play such a game? Urine drinking Simulator 2019? Are you completely MENTAL?

There is game balance, but also realism balance, intention balance, as well as SALES balance.

This shit ain't free, ya know? Someone spent time on this. Time is money. Time is a fungible resource. Time spent giving us an awesome game is time that could be spent on anything else.

There is what the customer wants, what the creator wants to show us, what the game mechanics put limits on, and then what limits the available resources, or the lack thereof, puts on the whole operation. It's a balancing act.

Which is why I think that Well Fed is brilliant. It is one of those things that fits right into the sweet spot. It's what we want (Good for the player). It's what the game intended (to make us eat all that meat, rather then store up a metric TON of fish/bear/wolf/deer/rabbit), The game mechanics fits in seamlessly without any apparent unforeseen interaction with existing rules, and apparently they had the time, money, and skill to code, and implement the buff.

By the four dimensional matrix of game design, it's perfect.

[Guest jeffpeng]

Just now, TheEldritchGod said:

Who would want to play such a game? Urine drinking Simulator 2019? Are you completely MENTAL?

Well I feel like there is a small percentage of hardcore masochist gamers that would applaud you for such a game. But I agree that if there ever was line to be drawn .... this is it.

[fauxjargon]

I really like the new system.  Although I was a little upset that it doesn't persist between Episode 1 and Episode 2 of Wintermute...

I'm by no means a power gamer, but it seems like a good system.  Although personally I'd like to see a mirrored 'poorly fed' debuff that you get for going on the 5 cattails a day diet that slows recovery, reduces carry by 5 kg, and temporarily limits your maximum condition to 90 or so.  I know there is a thing where you get more fatigue for starving yourself, but that system is confusing.

My current beef is that because there are no sources of non-potable water in the world  other than fire, the water purification tablets are an item with very marginal use - you can make more water faster by only melting the snow then purifying it, but that's kind of an edge case.

[Guest jeffpeng]

Just now, fauxjargon said:

I know there is a thing where you get more fatigue for starving yourself, but that system is confusing.

Well since you have to starve yourself for like 18 hours straight that rarely ever happens. Since you cannot manage on just 6 hours of sleep for a long time you will basically "automatically" eat before that sets in. If they shortened it to something like 6 hours it would become actually meaningful.

Just now, fauxjargon said:

My current beef is that because there are no sources of non-potable water in the world  other than fire, the water purification tablets are an item with very marginal use - you can make more water faster by only melting the snow then purifying it, but that's kind of an edge case.

Yeah the purification tablets always felt misplaced. I feel like they are something like a design concept the devs double backed on, but then didn't remove them since they had some theoretical use. They effectively save you some time and/or firewood. So in a dire survival scenario they have an application, which I actually came to use two or three times. But those scenarios arise as rarely as the tablets.