Wolves and stealth gameplay

[Klobberthon]

**This post is in reference to Interloper difficulty**

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that within a certain distance (~20m) wolves will stalk directly towards the character's location even while crouched and not carrying anything that smells.  They don't bark until they get very close but track you all the same.

I think this is interesting and believable AI (in a world where wolves are aggressive and are attracted to the smell of human).  However, I find that my experience in Interloper is somewhat hindered by this particular mechanic.  I feel that the crouching 'stealth' tends to just lure me into a false sense that I am undetected when in fact a wolf is very much on its way to kill me.   What's worse is that moving while crouching is incredibly costly in terms of time out in the cold.  I've found I'm almost better off just strolling in (after scouting) and sprinting past wolves to a door.

I guess my point is that the minimal advantages of 'sneaking' do not account for the effective costs of doing so.  Crouching is more and more just a thing I do when exiting an interior and that's it.  I would prefer if wolves went about their business until actually barking (like they do from a long distance if they smell meat).

[MarrowStone]

I have been unable to walk while standing past wolves in any agressive difficulty since release.

And crouching is way too slow for anything other than hunting.

In stalker wolves see me past hills if i stand and already start barking instead of just following scent. 

Also, foggy days are a death sentence since it doesnt seem to affect them and when they start barking.

 

[Bano]

Wolves, in my assessment, follow a linear path until they hit “detection” range then toward you in straight linear direction. I have no sense of distance but I’d gather your 20m range seem right falling just outside the lock on detection mode. Add smelly 1 and I guess that increases, say +10m? Complete guess. More smell more range. 

All that said, crouching does not serve as avoidance unless line of sight is completely broken at which point you should run Forest! Crouching is useful as you stated (exit interior) but also when baiting or when scare hunting. 

[Klobberthon]

4 hours ago, Bano said:

Wolves, in my assessment, follow a linear path until they hit “detection” range then toward you in straight linear direction. I have no sense of distance but I’d gather your 20m range seem right falling just outside the lock on detection mode. Add smelly 1 and I guess that increases, say +10m? Complete guess. More smell more range. 

All that said, crouching does not serve as avoidance unless line of sight is completely broken at which point you should run Forest! Crouching is useful as you stated (exit interior) but also when baiting or when scare hunting. 

You're right, I forgot in my post that crouching is useful for more than just exiting interiors.  I guess my main issue is that the methods to best get around wolves (without tools, flares, weapons, etc) are somewhat counter-intuitive when it comes to the crouch technique.  E.g. I am usually safer when I'm upright and a wolf barks from a distance than when I'm crouching and it silently heads towards me.  It feels too much like a zombie game tactic to me (make-a-lot-of-noise-to-draw-out-baddies) rather than something more subtle that fits in The Long Dark.

Maybe I'm just salty because every one of my interloper runs ends in the belly of a wolf  lol

[Stone]

@Klobberthon yeah, I've never got on with crouching around wolves. I wouldn't agree with the Zombie game parallel, instead I think its just an unavoidable part of the general problem of threats + hidding places = nasty suprises. As many posts here testify, the most dangerous thing in TLD is a suprise/close encounter with a wolf. This is gripe that breaks otherwise perfect 'bases' in places like Milton/Costal Highway. I've just risked looting Milton on day 30ish of a good interloper run and I wish I hadn't bothered - its cost me a ton of matches lighting defensive fires (Five matches. FIVE!) Where are you getting 'wolfed'?

As you say, you're better spotting each other at distance when you have time to escape. The most powerful defence is lighting a fire. When walking through terrain with blind spots just be ready to start a fire the moment you hear a wolf. If you think you've time to look for it then great but 'fire is life out here' right? That also means you really need sunny, calm weather too so its very restrictive but hey - its interloper! All in all, the best answer is to avoid these places altogether.

In terms of realism, stumbling on wild animals is often a trigger for an attack that could be managed/avoided if neither party were surprised. And once the encounter starts, making yourself look like niether a threat nor prey and slipping away confidently is usually the recommended tactic, which is pretty true to wolf encounters in TLD.

[stratvox]

That's really weird, I've used crouching to get around wolves plenty of times with great success. Crouching and thrown stones to distract wolves works extremely well.

[Hotzn]

On 16.5.2018 at 8:51 PM, Klobberthon said:

**This post is in reference to Interloper difficulty**

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that within a certain distance (~20m) wolves will stalk directly towards the character's location even while crouched and not carrying anything that smells.  They don't bark until they get very close but track you all the same.

I think this is interesting and believable AI (in a world where wolves are aggressive and are attracted to the smell of human).  However, I find that my experience in Interloper is somewhat hindered by this particular mechanic.  I feel that the crouching 'stealth' tends to just lure me into a false sense that I am undetected when in fact a wolf is very much on its way to kill me.   What's worse is that moving while crouching is incredibly costly in terms of time out in the cold.  I've found I'm almost better off just strolling in (after scouting) and sprinting past wolves to a door.

I guess my point is that the minimal advantages of 'sneaking' do not account for the effective costs of doing so.  Crouching is more and more just a thing I do when exiting an interior and that's it.  I would prefer if wolves went about their business until actually barking (like they do from a long distance if they smell meat).

Interesting observation. I hardly ever crouch except when searching the interior of buildings for loot. Especially in Interloper because, as you say, it slows you down too much and likely results in additional freezing damage. If you know your maps, you also know more or less how to move about them without running into wolves. And if you do run into one nevertheless, there are plenty of maneuvers you can pull off to avoid a fight (break the line of sight and run, drop bait, start a fire etc.). So my advice is: Do not crouch to avoid wolves on Interloper.

[Bano]

@Hotznthe only thing I’d add to “lighting a fire” would be, never with matches.

Definitely lots of options. I find ruined gut to be the best bait/distractor -but you have to time it correctly- too soon; they don’t notice. 

[Riotintheair]

Early in Interloper I just burn matches to stay alive. After day 50 or 60 I light a fire with a match every 100 days or so and I'll have plenty of matches.  I don't get eaten on day 2 to save a match for day 2500 - that's a terrible trade. 

I sneak around wolves I know the location of and am either hunting or tricking with rocks, but otherwise I go loud - if I'm sneaking around and get surprised it's a tussel, unless the wolf coat saves me as we're going to see each other well inside the fight radius.  I just walk around normally (without meat) and steer around them if I see them, or walk away once they bark. If I'm not encumbered I can walk across a huge distance with a wolf or wolves in tow without it being very likely he'll attack as long as I don't run while he's watching or aim my weapon. If things look dicey it's fire time, but I never fire a weapon at a wolf that knows where I am.

I found it tense as hell at first, but walking away really does work if I'm not encumbered and I highly recommend it for dealing with wolves in Interloper (when not carrying meat, or injured, or moving too slowly while walking).

[cekivi]

welcome to the forums @Klobberthon

[Klobberthon]

On 5/25/2018 at 8:53 PM, cekivi said:

welcome to the forums @Klobberthon

Thanks!

On 5/21/2018 at 11:32 AM, stratvox said:

That's really weird, I've used crouching to get around wolves plenty of times with great success. Crouching and thrown stones to distract wolves works extremely well.

I'm embarrassed to say I actually had no idea wolves responded to stones as distractions!   

[MarrowStone]

I cant seem to throw the stones far enough to distract the wolves. The few times i tried theyd end up walking towards me because the stone landed between us...

[Ice Hole]

Wolves are attracted to car door slams and stones hitting something. 

Does anyone know if they can hear the character's footfalls when for example hopping down a slope? 

Can the wolves hear the character talking too?

 

[Stone]

@Ice Hole pretty sure they can't hear the character giving status updates as you can turn these off in settings and for that to effect the game 'difficulty'.. well I just wouldn't expect that of the designers. I must admit I don't know if this holds for the moaning you get when walking on a sprain. Such injuries definately make you more appealing to wolves. 

 

[Riotintheair]

They hear footfalls and investigate like rockfalls, but they see farther than they hear footfalls, so this only matters if the character is behind them or an obstruction is between the character and wolf. The one place you can easily see it in action is if the character walks up behind them, and then sneak as the wolf turns around - they'll go into "investigate that noise" mode and head directly toward the player at pace. If the player has bow level five this is an easy kill and I use it pretty frequently against undesirable wolves.

As far as I can tell bounding down a hill doesn't confer an extra loud footfall relative to normal walking, but I haven't tested it exhaustively. I also don't know if limping makes characters louder, though it certainly seems to make them tastier if a wolf is more than investigative.

[Bano]

To that end, wolves typically don’t pursue down steep embankments, perhaps because of the aggro mechanic or more probably because of broken line of sight. 

Never considered slamming car doors as a means of luring a victim closer to your trap...interesting

[Labenius]

On 5/29/2018 at 12:18 PM, Riotintheair said:

 If the player has bow level five this is an easy kill and I use it pretty frequently against undesirable wolves.

There are desirable wolves? LOL 

[jerry486]

Depends on the distance, you smell-o- meter and wind (wind can carry your scent really far away). There are also various stages of how the wolf will "deal" with you. Picked up scent / inspect interesting smell - this is when he cannot really see you and will move to the spot he smelled something (you). Depending on wind and how you move you can move away from this spot and by far away from it by the time he reaches it, he will then search for smells again and if you have managed to move away - return to his patrol routine. However if you don't get out quick enough he will visually lock onto you. When this happens try and loose him by breaking AI's path to you - move down a slope quickly, put some objects between you, if you hear a sorry howl you know he had lost ya. An important thing to remember when he's in stalking mode - keep walking and looking at him from time to time. If you are not exhausted / low on health he will not jump you. But if you stop and let him reach a certain distance to you - he WILL charge.

[Bano]

2 hours ago, jerry486 said:

....But if you stop and let him reach a certain distance to you - he WILL charge.

This is where you need to time your bait drop. Too soon and Wolfe misses it. Too late and, well....you know. ?

[jerry486]

On 05/06/2018 at 7:30 PM, Bano said:

This is where you need to time your bait drop. Too soon and Wolfe misses it. Too late and, well....you know. ?

50% correct. If you do it too soon all you have to do is keep moving back and let the wolf reach the correct distance from it. There is also another insane bit, they are capable of raiding your stashes in bases. Try this - get stalked a few hundred feet away. Keep walking and looking the wolf in the eye. Reach your base (let's say a fishng hut with tons of meat outside), watch what will happen...

[Bano]

4 hours ago, jerry486 said:

50% correct. If you do it too soon all you have to do is keep moving back and let the wolf reach the correct distance from it. There is also another insane bit, they are capable of raiding your stashes in bases. Try this - get stalked a few hundred feet away. Keep walking and looking the wolf in the eye. Reach your base (let's say a fishng hut with tons of meat outside), watch what will happen...

Interesting, I’ve always speculated if outdoor meat will be eaten but have never confirmed this although I’ve never tried when a wolf has locked on. In most instances, my outdoor stashes remain untouched, or so I believe, whenever I leave for another cache. If wildlife are drawn to scent, I’d expect these steaks to be eaten while I’m away but in return, im always happy to find my piles waiting for me. Again, I’ve never tried the lock and lead to my pile. For as long and as much as I’ve played TLD, I think I would have come across this strategy at some point but in TLD there is always something new to learn. If there are other who can confirm this is the case then I’ve definitely missed something. I’ll also try myself.

Personally, I find there is a window for bait dropping experiencing a number of times when a bait drop has gone horribly bad due to dropping way too soon. I also suspect mode, condition, etc. impacts aggro and I primarily stick to Loper. 

Definitely worth testing though!