Trapper's Cabin vs. Camp Office

[Hesha]

9 hours ago, TROY said:

I'm not going to continue the derailment of the thread by arguing with someone who accepts altered reality in every other aspect of the game and insists on perfect realism on the suggestion of added content. Congratulations, youve earned my very first "ignore" in two years as part of this community.

Ditto. Well, I guess you can't get along with everyone.

I wouldn't give up on the whole "moving corpses" thing. I was just as frustrated about having to harvest carcasses out in the cold and then they introduced quartering. But once mods are allowed, many of the things we wish for will probably happen. Like dozens and dozens of additional crafting recipes for example. There are just so few at the moment. You can't even make any kind of hat from fur. Not to mention that it might actually be a good idea to craft a crossbow from metal scrap and fir wood plus some additional stuff like guts.

[Hackfleisch]

I was so glad this forum didn't have pedants who just argue to argue, until now. Good thing most people here are still actually helpful.

About the mess, yeah I've really been wishing for a way to scrap open cans, rugs, and eat corpses.

Well, not the last one, but the unscrappable items do bother me a little, especially when I'm hurting for cloth and I see a few perfectly good rugs spread out on the floor. And of course the mess doesn't look as nice, but it doesn't bother me too much.

[Mroz4k]

12 hours ago, Patrick Carlson said:

Endless arguments and bickering aren't good for anyone (besides derailing this thread). Please take a step back and consider what it means to civilly participate in this forum. The "realism" debate is an old topic and not one worth rehashing or arguing over and over. Thank you.  

Just out of curiosity, is editing threads instanteous or does it need to be approved? I edited my previous addition and yet today when I came to it again, there were still some swears present which I then edited out now once again.
For what it is worth, I am sorry for my tempered addition, but I just cant tolerate a mix of ignorance and arrogance. If I am proven wrong, at least I think it is fair to admit I was wrong, not continue on the debate arguing points that were disproven or attempting to find a way around to justify my addition. That falls under logical fallacies I try to avoid. It has been a while when someone pissed me off this much, will try to do my best to avoid it in the future but I cant quarantee it without purposedly lying.

Now, to go back to the thread:
The issue with moving "human remains" - like I said, I tend to use them as containers, and i dont really look for what they are. However, I had an idea last night:

The amount of "mess" in the houses is growing ever since Coastal was introduced, at a steady rate. Wintermute added some incredibly messy places, both in Story mode and in survival sandbox. To the point that the mess inside of these houses is almost abnormal to what you would expect. I know there was the earthquake of some sort, so I understand things would be knocked over - but to have that amount of garbage just lying everywhere is abit too much, even for apocalypse.

I was wondering, if the people who design the game were capable of making a "clean" versions of the interiors. If so, the game could have an "option" to "clean up" the places. It would depend on how big the place was, and it would only be performable during "light", but it could have several important effects:
First of all, finished cleaning would move all the items thrown around to your "inventory" - so if you missed something somewhere, you would "find" it during the cleaning up. Additionally, it would provide things like "stacks of paper, reclaimed wood etc" which you would expect would be the "garbage" of the clean up. What I think would really make it worthwhile is if you could occasionally randomly discover something small, but of big value - like a randomly found bullet, flare round, or a box of matches - something that could not be accessible othervise then through "cleaning up" - this wouldnt really be a clean up in the general sense, more of a "thorough search" of the place. Obviously, this would be an option only once a game per individual place. 

Most important of the aspects would be that the place would now turn from the "messy place" into a nice, clean, orderly home. The interior corpses would be thrown out and instead of them there would be backpacks of the same "container size". The knocked over furniture would be placed in an orderly fashion, the really destroyed one would be removed and there would be reclaimed wood reward in the end. The garbage would be gone. The knocked over cabinets would be put back to place, and the fallen out cupboards would be replaced and now fully useable as storage, empty at first, of course.

This wouldnt be so easy to implement, but I think as far as a neccesary esthetical improvements go, this one is worth it.

As for which place I prefer: Personally probably Trappers, because I like its look better, but really, Camp office is in the better location. I honestly use both of them as bases - this is something I do, I have smaller outposts, usually about two of them per location, where I store some supplies for when I really need them. Esthetically Trappers is better, but Camp Office is more useful since it is on the "main crossroad" of several important locations like FM and CH and PV. But I also frequently use Trappers because it is in better hunting location.

[Hackfleisch]

 but I just cant tolerate a mix of ignorance and arrogance. If I am proven wrong, at least I think it is fair to admit I was wrong, not continue on the debate arguing points that were disproven or attempting to find a way around to justify my addition. That falls under logical fallacies I try to avoid. It has been a while when someone pissed me off this much, will try to do my best to avoid it in the future but I cant quarantee it without purposedly lying.

 

You seem like someone who overestimates their own intelligence and supplements it with arrogance. I read that discussion and you were just bickering for the sake of pedantry, and it's not like you were right either. Stop making excuses for your bad behaviour by pretending you're just too intelligent to act like a normal human being or you'll end up being ignored by more users, and it's not helpful at all.

[Mroz4k]

20 minutes ago, Hackfleisch said:

 but I just cant tolerate a mix of ignorance and arrogance. If I am proven wrong, at least I think it is fair to admit I was wrong, not continue on the debate arguing points that were disproven or attempting to find a way around to justify my addition. That falls under logical fallacies I try to avoid. It has been a while when someone pissed me off this much, will try to do my best to avoid it in the future but I cant quarantee it without purposedly lying.

 

You seem like someone who overestimates their own intelligence and supplements it with arrogance. I read that discussion and you were just bickering for the sake of pedantry, and it's not like you were right either. Stop making excuses for your bad behaviour by pretending you're just too intelligent to act like a normal human being or you'll end up being ignored by more users, and it's not helpful at all.

I dont dissagree with what you said about me, I am by far not a perfect person, I can be both arrogant and stubborn. In fact I have more faults then I want to admit. I may have not cut the argument when I should have, but I was not wrong, in fact I was ready to back my claims with facts like I always do. But let us not continue this anymore, as it is in fact derailing the thread. Also, I am quite intelligent, but that has nothing to do with it, if anything the proper term would be "well read" or experienced. 

I am very happy that Troy ignored me as it just shows he couldnt think of a better way to cut that conversation, he could have admit his wrong, or continue that argument with me privatedly instead. I was ready for both. I know there are people here on forums who will probably even envy me that he did ignore me. As for you, do what you want - but take a look in the mirror now, who is the one currently bickering, me or you? With my comment, that whole deal was sealed, you are simply opening it up again. That is my final comment on this whole situation. PM me if you wish to continue it, privatedly, lets not derail this any further.

[TROY]

5 hours ago, Hesha said:

Ditto. Well, I guess you can't get along with everyone.

I wouldn't give up on the whole "moving corpses" thing. I was just as frustrated about having to harvest carcasses out in the cold and then they introduced quartering. But once mods are allowed, many of the things we wish for will probably happen. Like dozens and dozens of additional crafting recipes for example. There are just so few at the moment. You can't even make any kind of hat from fur. Not to mention that it might actually be a good idea to craft a crossbow from metal scrap and fir wood plus some additional stuff like guts.

I don't know about a crossbow, but that's just a preference thing. You may be right, and I sure hope it's added eventually. At least an option to drag them outdoors. As for a fur hat, and scarf or muffler, we sure need them. They've been asked for in the past as well. I suggested a bear skin cape a long time ago, like the old trappers wore. I doubt the bear coat came from that suggestion, but at least we got one. If you've seen any of my posts about the RNG over the years, you know I don't give up easily.  

[Prestermatt]

4 hours ago, Mroz4k said:

I was wondering, if the people who design the game were capable of making a "clean" versions of the interiors. If so, the game could have an "option" to "clean up" the places. It would depend on how big the place was, and it would only be performable during "light", but it could have several important effects:
First of all, finished cleaning would move all the items thrown around to your "inventory" - so if you missed something somewhere, you would "find" it during the cleaning up. Additionally, it would provide things like "stacks of paper, reclaimed wood etc" which you would expect would be the "garbage" of the clean up. What I think would really make it worthwhile is if you could occasionally randomly discover something small, but of big value - like a randomly found bullet, flare round, or a box of matches - something that could not be accessible othervise then through "cleaning up" - this wouldnt really be a clean up in the general sense, more of a "thorough search" of the place. Obviously, this would be an option only once a game per individual place. 

There are some good ideas here.  I was thinking along similar lines, but I like how you present it.

And, of course, the trade-off is that it takes time, calories, and energy, which are not always in great supply.  So not every survivor will have the luxury of having a neat and tidy base, which is how it should be.  I would set the time and calorie requirements fairly high – make it a real all-day kind of thing.

Same with corpses.  Sacrifice some time and energy to "bury" them.  Not everybody would bother, but some feel strongly about that kind of thing, just as in real life.

[Thrasador]

Typically after a moderator weighs in everyone understands the argument is over...

If you wanted to throw gasoline on it, the time and place was yesterday in this thread.

If a moderator weighs in AND one or both people say sorry, then it's DEFINITELY understood that the argument is over.

Not sure what was the point of rehashing who is what negative adjective....

I think everyone would rather just move on at this point....

[Patrick Carlson]

For general information to anyone interested - no, edits to your posts aren't "approved" and should be live as you make them. If they aren't "sticking", then that could be a bug we need to look into. Please message me directly if you find you can't edit your posts. Thanks. 

[Lrrr Ruler of OP8]

I don't like either, I prefer the lookout! I'ts close enough to fishing, there is no loading screen when you enter and exit, and the best part of all... The view!

[Samsonguy920]

I don't mind the mess. I suppose cleaning up could be an option, but I never plan to be in one place for a long time.

Trapper's Cabin is way too claustrophobic for me.  That and it being about the furthest from anywhere else on the map makes it a place to go check out and maybe stay at for one night, but that's it.  It has also been a popular place for bears and wolves before.

As for Mortimer in Camp Office, he was there first. Squatter's Rights do apply in this case.  I am curious, though; if you were to start in another region, and after making your way all the way to Mystery Lake to find him in Camp Office, would you honestly throw away all your progress for that?  Honestly, that seems rather foolish, and I have my own eccentricities of my own that I deal with. But I am not going to let them overrule how I play.

[Hesha]

3 hours ago, Samsonguy920 said:

As for Mortimer in Camp Office, he was there first. Squatter's Rights do apply in this case.  I am curious, though; if you were to start in another region, and after making your way all the way to Mystery Lake to find him in Camp Office, would you honestly throw away all your progress for that?  Honestly, that seems rather foolish, and I have my own eccentricities of my own that I deal with. But I am not going to let them overrule how I play.

No, not it my case. For me it was about starting in ML. I would beeline to the Camp Office to make sure and then start playing for real.

Although I was quite annoyed on my current run, when after starting a Pilgrim game in BR and making my way to ML after about 2 weeks or so only to find that bastard sitting there...

[CitrinePeridot]

I am so relieved that I am not alone in this! When I first entered, I thought, "What in the WORLD is all this...stuff?!" Obviously, having just started, I had to tend to some basics first, but I have begun the process of breaking down & ripping up anything & everything that I can just to clear some of it. I organize my stuff as I find a place for it to save game time (light), etc. I find that useful. However, in wanting to make sure I didn't miss any of these letters/notes left by others I am supposed to find, I presume I looked at no less than 3 receipts from (I guess) the "frat party" supplier before I realized it was a waste. At any rate, no. You are not the only one finding themselves driven to distraction over this. LOL

[SweetNightmare]

On 8/28/2017 at 6:37 AM, Mroz4k said:

If you play the game long time, chances are the house will be a complete mess of items instead, anyways. If no and you are "tidy" you can always drop things like hides over the papers to hide them. Just mask it all with items to make it look pretty. Harvest the things that are turned over if it is such a problem. But that is just a fix to a problem that I feel like was growing with the game for a while now - the messiness which is getting riddiculous.

Now as for the corpses in interiors, it never bothered me since the corpses in game dont really look that much like corpses to begin with and it was a free sticks storage. But I can see how that can piss people off. I suppose option to "drag it off outside" could be interesting - this would respawn the body to some specific "scripted" location outside the house, not that far away (but far away to not be right next to the house, for immersion reasons, who would want to put decaying body next to their house, it would be animal risk on top of being disgusting.)

Spoiler alert

I understand that the story counts with the Collapse happening which is something that is responsible for how destroyed the map looks - with railways demolished, houses broken down, crumbling highways and fallen mines, and rest of the houses really messy and abandoned... but honestly, the "mess" in houses has been getting more and more extreme with how the game progresses, the Mystery Lake was tidy, Coastal was a bit of a mess, then Pleasant was rather messy, and since Desolation it has been getting more and more riddiculous until I saw Milton and I had enough - at this point it is starting to break the immersion, given the nature of the TLD apocalypse, I would not expect the furniture to be turned over and scattered in bits everywhere - maybe couple of papers and knocked over photos. Also, it seems that story counts with Collapse happening a while before the Aurora apocalypse... some people would return home, and would tidy their places up. Some might not have been affected at all... there should be more "clean" houses.

So some version of cleaning could be a good idea for the game. I will go ahead and try to make a compiled list to what I would expect would be a good idea.

woah slow down! Building your own cabin? Try helping out with house remodeling in the middle of winter in Europe... it is already difficult enough, with the use of modern tools and temperatures around zero... and you would build a log cabin with the incredibly limited resources you have in TLD, in the middle of insanely low temperatures. Heck, fixing a hole in the Mountaineer´s would be pretty damn difficult, to even think of building an actual house somewhere as opposed to some "permanent" igloo shelter instead...
You would not pull apart a pot stove with your bare hands and then put it back together again. 
You would definitedly not build one out of a scrap metal.

I could agree with very simple "remodeling" like picking up fallen chairs and fixing up half-broken cupboards, and removing corpses... but that is the end of it. Building your own houses is something I would expect from games like The Forest which are not realistical and are  trash for being so unrealistical. You dont even have a way of picking up a single "log" in game and you would want to build log cabins...

Just putting in my two cents that it'd be nice to get a recipe for like a lean-to in the future, maybe added in a future Wintermute episode. Something a little tougher than a snow shelter, maybe built with reclaimed wood or logs, that could also provide some wind protection for your fire. The drawback would be it has to be leaning against something, which is even more restrictive than snow shelters.

I actually don't mind the mess; I always take the Camp Office myself. I like the proximity to more cabins, plus the fishing huts as well. Just over the train tracks is a good rabbit trapping spot, and next to the cabins on the other side of the lake there seems to be a herd of deer more often than not. If I don't have a weapon to kill them, there's usually a wolf or two on the ice I can scare a deer into, then scare away with a fire. The back path to the other cabins has plenty of wood, as well as up by the railroad. (I also like to imagine that, if there's a corpse there, my survivor is so lonely that when she's complaining about things, she's talking to the corpse. Morbid, I know. I'm absolutely awful.)

[Stormwolf1O1]

I actually use both Trapper's and the Camp Office, because I can't decide! I sort of "main" Camp Office, but also keep basic supplies, food, water, and some items curing at Trapper's for when I'm in the area and weather permits me to stop by. No one said you have to have only one base in ML!

[Lrrr Ruler of OP8]

2 minutes ago, Stormwolf1O1 said:

I actually use both Trapper's and the Camp Office, because I can't decide! I sort of "main" Camp Office, but also keep basic supplies, food, water, and some items curing at Trapper's for when I'm in the area and weather permits me to stop by. No one said you have to have only one base in ML!

Always good to stop by to visit an old friend! Sometimes I get chills entering Trappers, I guess because I still envision it in its infancy (no crafting table, etc.)

[Stormwolf1O1]

Just now, Lrrr Ruler of OP8 said:

Always good to stop by to visit an old friend! Sometimes I get chills entering Trappers, I guess because I still envision it in its infancy (no crafting table, etc.)

I assume you're referring to Trapper's as the "old friend" and not referring to Jeremiah or something  I have to agree! While I haven't been playing since it was in such early stages as that, it's been a few years!

[Lrrr Ruler of OP8]

27 minutes ago, Stormwolf1O1 said:

I assume you're referring to Trapper's as the "old friend" and not referring to Jeremiah or something  I have to agree! While I haven't been playing since it was in such early stages as that, it's been a few years!

Indeed it has! Although the poor old place gets less visits from me these days, what with the lookout "hoping" across the valley

[Stormwolf1O1]

20 minutes ago, Lrrr Ruler of OP8 said:

Indeed it has! Although the poor old place gets less visits from me these days, what with the lookout "hoping" across the valley

What ever even happened to that poor lookout?

[Lrrr Ruler of OP8]

20 minutes ago, Stormwolf1O1 said:

What ever even happened to that poor lookout?

I think you should drop by for yourself...

[Stormwolf1O1]

1 hour ago, Lrrr Ruler of OP8 said:

I think you should drop by for yourself...

I have, but I don't understand what happened

[TROY]

11 hours ago, Stormwolf1O1 said:

I have, but I don't understand what happened

I just assumed that the original one was a victim of seismic activity before the current event and a new one was built in a different location. What I don't understand is the reason for it. I'm not sure how it added to or why it was necessary for the story. 

[Hackfleisch]

Yesterday I was just outside Trapper's Cabin stalking some deer, and I kept hearing this strange cracking sound. Never heard it before, it sounded like branches breaking or falling off trees, and it kinda echoed. The weather was clear so it wasn't the wind, I looked around expecting to see something, the sound seemed too loud for just a random ambient noise, though I guess it could've been. Or was it Bigfoot? Maybe he destroyed the old lookout. It's called Mystery Lake for a reason...

[starfighter441]

On 28/08/2017 at 10:55 AM, Hesha said:

Oh, and may I add: My beef is also with those random cups, rags and other things the game simply regards as "part of the shelf". I wish we could remove those.

Oh yes, those have been annoying me since day one, but the general debris since a month now just really get on my nerves.

 

[CitrinePeridot]

In reading over subsequent posts, I realize I need to clarify my reason for my post & what I wished to convey. I am not suggesting this is a flaw of any kind within the game nor am I suggesting they do away with it. It is less a matter of that & more a matter of that's how my personality is. The clutter is distracting. That said, I realize that I can't expect in the aftermath of an apocalypse for all things to be "neat & tidy". In their haste, panic, and rushing around there would be what we see. Also, though they may be gone now (as in the easiest Survivor mode), there were also survivors that were before I got there, and would have "tossed" the places much as I am doing. So, all this could be reasonably expected. I simply wished to say that those who, like me, find it distracting are not alone. That is all.