Trapper's Cabin vs. Camp Office


Hesha

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As far as I can tell, these are the two most popular choices as the main base in Mystery Lake.

I have always preferred the Camp Office, because it is located close to the railway, which gives you a means of navigation during a blizzard and also because I like to fish. But now with the map update, I find the interior of the Camp Office insufferable. It is so messy. Why can't you tidy up in that damn place? This really puts me off using it and I am, also due to the fact that there are barely any containers in the office, considering to relocate to the Trapper's Cabin...

Is anyone else bothered by the mess?

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46 minutes ago, Hesha said:

As far as I can tell, these are the two most popular choices as the main base in Mystery Lake.

I have always preferred the Camp Office, because it is located close to the railway, which gives you a means of navigation during a blizzard and also because I like to fish. But now with the map update, I find the interior of the Camp Office insufferable. It is so messy. Why can't you tidy up in that damn place? This really puts me off using it and I am, also due to the fact that there are barely any containers in the office, considering to relocate to the Trapper's Cabin...

Is anyone else bothered by the mess?

Lol, it's funny you say that....I actually thought the same thing....I do have OCD however. I likely will STILL use it despite the mess because of its location on the map...it's sort of in the middle, making it easy to travel everywhere else...

That being said, I would LOVE to be able to pick up and throw out all the random sheets of paper and receipts(?), and maybe try to right tables and things i wasn't going to chop up yet....

A lot of the new buildings are pretty messy. Have you seen the Hunting Lodge in Broken Railroad yet? What a mess....

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1 minute ago, Thrasador said:

Lol, it's funny you say that....I actually thought the same thing....I do have OCD however. I likely will STILL use it despite the mess because of its location on the map...it's sort of in the middle, making it easy to travel everywhere else...

That being said, I would LOVE to be able to pick up and throw out all the random sheets of paper and receipts(?), and maybe try to right tables and things i wasn't going to chop up yet....

A lot of the new buildings are pretty messy. Have you seen the Hunting Lodge in Broken Railroad yet? What a mess....

I feel you bro. Yeah, I started my current game in BR and not too far from the Lodge, so it was my first base before hauling all the loot to ML. The worst part was that stack of planks to the left of the fireplace that, once you harvest it, turns into a non-interactive pile of planks that looks exactly the same! Infuriating.

Here's what I would love:

- move furniture (at least the interactive stuff that's either harvestable or a container) - simply right-click to pick up and left-click to set down

- harvest containers (just a small button, when you're in the container inventory)

- move / bury human corpses (or even harvest them for bait ... )

- tidy up! (I would even do it for no benefit, but it could realistically yield tinder)

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17 minutes ago, Hesha said:

I feel you bro. Yeah, I started my current game in BR and not too far from the Lodge, so it was my first base before hauling all the loot to ML. The worst part was that stack of planks to the left of the fireplace that, once you harvest it, turns into a non-interactive pile of planks that looks exactly the same! Infuriating.

Here's what I would love:

- move furniture (at least the interactive stuff that's either harvestable or a container) - simply right-click to pick up and left-click to set down

- harvest containers (just a small button, when you're in the container inventory)

- move / bury human corpses (or even harvest them for bait ... )

- tidy up! (I would even do it for no benefit, but it could realistically yield tinder)

I could not agree more. There have been times when I deleted a game and restarted OVER AND OVER just to get a camp office with no corpse in it.  I have always chosen the office over the cabin because it has more storage overall, and more space to "place" things on counters and such, as well as the proximity to fishing. (I actually like the hut in TWM even better, despite its lack of storage and the hole in the roof and coldness.)  I've always wished we could do something with the corpses. And I've always wished we had more creative options for decorating or rearranging or remodeling or even building our own damn log cabin wherever we wanted it to be. It would be cool to be able to dismantle a potbelly stove and move it in pieces to your own cabin, or to build one from scrap metal, or to drag lockers and filing cabinets to different locations for storage, and be able to build small cabinets and shelves.    Or to collect larger stones and build a crude stone fireplace.  I REALLY REALLY dislike living in the aftermath of a frat party at the office now and I REALLY hope some options will be added to the game for creativity. It would go a loooooooong way towards relieving the boredom that sets in around day 60 or 70. ESPECIALLY being able to build our own, or craft more "home decor" items.

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I really like both, but the Camp Office slightly more because it's more central on the map. I pretty much always use both of them, though. Camp office is my main base but I take frequent vacations in the cabin.

And maybe I've always been lucky with my spawns but the trip between the two is pretty short and safe, so it's easy to alternate. I've only ever seen 1 or 2 wolves in the area, and on Voyageur a wolf attack is easy enough to survive, plus you'll have dinner taken care of.

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yeah same i hate the mess and i just wish i could clean it all up and making living in it practicable camp office is good as i boast 2 doors meaning if a wold traps you one way you can go out of another and there is some deer but about 2 to 3 wolves on the lake it also is near the middle of the map so its more easier to move/explore around trappers cabins is good as their is a good spot for trapping rabbits and some deer a bear sometimes wonders in there as i have seen. wolf activity is surprisingly low in this area so it about even cap office has better beds for warmth but trappers has better beds for healing. so its up to you. i just wish we could clean stuff up like i said before. whatever you choose good luck with surviving

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If you play the game long time, chances are the house will be a complete mess of items instead, anyways. If no and you are "tidy" you can always drop things like hides over the papers to hide them. Just mask it all with items to make it look pretty. Harvest the things that are turned over if it is such a problem. But that is just a fix to a problem that I feel like was growing with the game for a while now - the messiness which is getting riddiculous.

Now as for the corpses in interiors, it never bothered me since the corpses in game dont really look that much like corpses to begin with and it was a free sticks storage. But I can see how that can piss people off. I suppose option to "drag it off outside" could be interesting - this would respawn the body to some specific "scripted" location outside the house, not that far away (but far away to not be right next to the house, for immersion reasons, who would want to put decaying body next to their house, it would be animal risk on top of being disgusting.)

Spoiler alert

I understand that the story counts with the Collapse happening which is something that is responsible for how destroyed the map looks - with railways demolished, houses broken down, crumbling highways and fallen mines, and rest of the houses really messy and abandoned... but honestly, the "mess" in houses has been getting more and more extreme with how the game progresses, the Mystery Lake was tidy, Coastal was a bit of a mess, then Pleasant was rather messy, and since Desolation it has been getting more and more riddiculous until I saw Milton and I had enough - at this point it is starting to break the immersion, given the nature of the TLD apocalypse, I would not expect the furniture to be turned over and scattered in bits everywhere - maybe couple of papers and knocked over photos. Also, it seems that story counts with Collapse happening a while before the Aurora apocalypse... some people would return home, and would tidy their places up. Some might not have been affected at all... there should be more "clean" houses.

So some version of cleaning could be a good idea for the game. I will go ahead and try to make a compiled list to what I would expect would be a good idea.

20 hours ago, TROY said:

I could not agree more. There have been times when I deleted a game and restarted OVER AND OVER just to get a camp office with no corpse in it.  I have always chosen the office over the cabin because it has more storage overall, and more space to "place" things on counters and such, as well as the proximity to fishing. (I actually like the hut in TWM even better, despite its lack of storage and the hole in the roof and coldness.)  I've always wished we could do something with the corpses. And I've always wished we had more creative options for decorating or rearranging or remodeling or even building our own damn log cabin wherever we wanted it to be. It would be cool to be able to dismantle a potbelly stove and move it in pieces to your own cabin, or to build one from scrap metal, or to drag lockers and filing cabinets to different locations for storage, and be able to build small cabinets and shelves.    Or to collect larger stones and build a crude stone fireplace.  I REALLY REALLY dislike living in the aftermath of a frat party at the office now and I REALLY hope some options will be added to the game for creativity. It would go a loooooooong way towards relieving the boredom that sets in around day 60 or 70. ESPECIALLY being able to build our own, or craft more "home decor" items.

woah slow down! Building your own cabin? Try helping out with house remodeling in the middle of winter in Europe... it is already difficult enough, with the use of modern tools and temperatures around zero... and you would build a log cabin with the incredibly limited resources you have in TLD, in the middle of insanely low temperatures. Heck, fixing a hole in the Mountaineer´s would be pretty damn difficult, to even think of building an actual house somewhere as opposed to some "permanent" igloo shelter instead...
You would not pull apart a pot stove with your bare hands and then put it back together again. 
You would definitedly not build one out of a scrap metal.

I could agree with very simple "remodeling" like picking up fallen chairs and fixing up half-broken cupboards, and removing corpses... but that is the end of it. Building your own houses is something I would expect from games like The Forest which are not realistical and are  trash for being so unrealistical. You dont even have a way of picking up a single "log" in game and you would want to build log cabins...

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@Mroz4k   Sir, do not attempt to play the "realistic" card against me.  I live in a climate nearly identical (in winter) to the one depicted in the game. I can write pages and pages and pages of specific examples of realism that riddle this games mechanics full of holes.  An old fashioned pot belly stove could easily be taken apart with "simple tools".  As for building one from scrap metal, you are correct, in real life, it couldn't be done. But neaither could a hacksaw or lantern or can opener be repaired with scrap metal.  Neither could a wolfskin coat be crafted with nothing but a hunting knife. A rainbow trout couldn't be caught in salt water, on a bare hook. A wolf wouldn't keep charging after having a rifle fired in its face, much less after being struck by the bullet. A single arrow from a maple stick bow wouldn't kill a deer instantly. Im asking for something that would keep the game interesting and fun for far longer, something to give us long term goals. There is no reason for IT to be held to realism standards, when nothing else in the game except the color of the snow is. 

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@TROY, I didnt want to pick a fight, but I dont deal with ignorance easily.

As a matter of fact, maple is great material to make a bow out of, and from a point blank range you could in fact kill a deer instantly with a survival bow. I remember Dave Canterbury spoke of this in one of his YouTube videos, that he hunts deer with makeshift bows and glass arrows from the range of 8 meters and drops them instantly, because he cares to put the animal down as quickly and cleanly as possible, make sure it doesnt suffer.

As for wolves charging at you after being fired upon and even hit, to my best knowledge, if you hit a wolf with a bullet, it will stop charging you in TLD. But really, this is not something you can so brazenly claim because in real life, not only would they likely not charge you at all, but if they did you could never predict how they would act.

Same as you cannot claim that an old time pot stove can be pulled apart by simple tools because that really depends on the stove itself. And I did specifically say with "bare hands" - but I will humour you, lets say with simple tools since they are in game, maybe you could. That really depends on the state of the stove - for example the stove from Mystery Lake Deadfall area could realistically not be pulled apart, as that particular stove would be all manners of rusted, being exposed to the elements all the time. In current moment, with the use of proper tools, you could, in fact, build a pot stove out of scrap metal, if you are at least a bit resourceful. Not in the TLD conditions, after Aurora put an end to electrical tools altogether, and without the help of other things like a proper smithy, not that improvised old ship furnace on Rikken. 

Whether or not its possible to repair a hacksaw, a can opener or a storm lantern using scrap metal once again depends on a manner of their "damage". In hacksaw, maybe the ending which secured the blade in the saw fell off - in that case, you could use a piece of wire and fix it with it, Wont look the same but should work well enough. Obviously you cant fix a broken blade with it. Maybe the storm lanterns handle fell off - again, wire to the rescue. Might be the can openers spring fell out - you can fix it by replacing it with a spring you found in between the scrap metal you had. This is not something you can argue "scrap metal cant fix it" because nowhere does it specify what the scrap metal is, whether its a spring, wire or a piece of metal sheet. How long have you played the game for? If you played it as long as I did, you would remember that guns could be repaired with fir firewood and scrap metal as well. Now THAT is impossible, unless you managed to find a perfectly well fitting spare parts of the same rifle or a matching hatchet head or knife blade like the ones you were repairing. And that option has ever since been removed out of the game, in an attempt to make the game more realistic.

Have you ever made something out of leather? I did. I am quite confident that you could, in fact, make a wolfskin coat using just a knife, because a sharp knife is the barest neccesity an ordinary amateur would need to puncture a hard leather and cut leather stripes to tie it all with. Not saying it would be easy but as far as primitive crafting goes, it most definitedly is possible to do. People in Paleolite wore leather clothing. And that was the older stone age... way before metal tools. Now I know how they made it, so I am not an ordinary amateur, and even though it would take me hundreds hours and countless fails, I am quite confident I could make a wolfskin coat without a knife altogether. You can drill holes in leather the same way you make friction fire, you can use tied sticks for buttons, you can utilize sharp bones of your prey to sew things together rather then waste a precious steel knife.

I am no fisherman, but I see no reason why you shouldnt be able to catch a sea fish in a salt water with just a bare hook. Arctic doesnt offer much in terms of baits, and bare hook fishing exists - it is not exactly efficient, but it can be pulled off, fish are atracted to shiny objects and metal surely is shiny. Personally I would put a bit of meat on the hook but to each their own. Especially a rainbow trout which is a predator fish that will go after anything of a certain shape that will twitch in a water.

I am rather curious where you live, I live in a climate that in winter used to get really cold when I was a kid, but due to Earth changes doesnt get that cold anymore. You would have to live in Russia or Canada or somewhere relatively close to polar circle to get winter temperatures like the ones depicted in TLD, taking into account our favorite post in Survival Mode section where it shows that for example Forlorn Muskeq gets -50 degree celsius on Interloper. Temperature like that is so brutal you could never hope to build a cottage of your own by yourself, using nothing but a puny hatchet, metal hacksaw, a big heavy hammer and a hunting knife. People in Paleolite would build more primitive homes in similar temperatures, and with worse tools but only ever together, whole tribe working on a single house time after time. They would much more often rely on simplier shelters for living.

Nothing you have claimed is impossible to do in real life, albeit some things may be improbable. You simply lack imagination, and for that reason call things unrealistic. But you are right, the TLD is not based on realism, you could never hope to create a game that would be close to realism. Because that would have to include a perfect knowledge of everything, and incorporate into the coding the essence of survival - ability to improvise. There are so, so so many things in TLD missing I could add to make my game life so much easier, but they are not possible in the game because it is just a game, and it should also stay a game that possesses some level of challenge. The idea is that TLD is trying to be as closest to realism as possible, which means they should never even consider giving into a notion it would be cool if players could build their own houses with bare hands. You want that, play Minecraft, 7 days to die or the Forest. TLD has always tried to mimic realism as closely as possible. Play it however you want, but dont bother suggesting ideas that go directly against what the game is clearly attempting, as I have already proven with the statement about the gun repairs in earlier version and now.

I actually agree with you that the game needs more long-term goals. But this is not the way to go. Repairing, even improving EXISTING shelters is something far more feasible, then building one of your own. As for "building" I can only be satisfied with building temporary shelters, be it shelters like the snow one we have, hunting blinds or more durable Igloos for longer survival periods outside. More long term goals yes, but not at the cost of detracting from realistic approach.

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I'm not going to quote your entire message, but calling me ignorant, and saying I lack imagination?  Nothing about my post called "for a fight". You cannot possibly make a good argument for an average person with a normal modern skill set having the ability to do the things you've pulled from "paleo" examples.  I never suggested pulling a stove apart with bare hands. You did. The tools exist in the game. And I never suggested doing so with one of the stoves that are outdoors and rusty. In fact, I specifically exempted them, by stating "pot belly" stove. And yes, they CAN be taken apart with nothing more than a screwdriver and pliers or adjustable wrench.  I've done it, on more than one occasion, with more than one stove.

 I live in Northern Maine, where temperatures often go to -30 and less, and we have blizzards, and high wind chill factors, and people work and play outdoors all day long in that weather, all winter,  in far less clothing than the game allows us to wear, and we don't freeze to death.  

A Rainbow trout is not a Saltwater fish.  The salt-water/coastal species of trout, albeit very similar to Rainbow, is called a SteelHead.  And catching fish on bare hooks is extremely unlikely, especially a hook made from your wire and springs scrap metal,  however "possible" you claim it be. You'd starve to death long before you caught enough to make it worth the attempt.  

If you expect ME to use some imagination in accepting that the few examples I gave as unrealistic (I never said impossible) can be done under the given circumstances by an average person ( a pilot, or a doctor) then I fully expect YOU to use some imagination in accepting that a small log cabin could be built and furnished over time with a heavy hammer and a hatchet. 

TLD has NEVER attempted to mimic realism, at least in terms of the survival mechanics.  8 kg of meat from a deer? Harvested half frozen with your bare hands?  500 calories from a kg of rabbit meat?  Freezing to death at -5?  Wind that slows forward movement to a crawl?  Do you have any idea what force winds are required to do that?  Starting a fire with no tinder?  They have always stretched realism to the breaking point, in the name of challenging game play.  If it was stretched any further, they'd have to claim our plane crashed on the planet HOTH.  I'm not against the stretch, because REAL survival is easy, and boring, and this game shouldnt be. What I'm against is people who accept non-realistic in one facet, but clamor against it in others.

I DO remember when rifles were repaired with fir firewood and scrap metal. Impossible you say? Have you no imagination? Perhaps the rifle just needed a new buttstock, and you found a chunk of firewood in your woodpile shaped like a rifle stock? Maybe it just needed a new bolt handle, and you had a broken cast iron pot in your scrap metal pile and the handle form it worked just fine. Since the game doesnt specify what is exactly in the scrap metal....    Two can play that game. 

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9 hours ago, Hesha said:

Oh, and may I add: My beef is also with those random cups, rags and other things the game simply regards as "part of the shelf". I wish we could remove those.

I hate breaking down a shelf for the wood, only for it to leave behind a floating cup or two.

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22 minutes ago, TROY said:

 Wind that slows forward movement to a crawl?  Do you have any idea what force winds are required to do that?  

Actually, I've experienced that a bunch! But I live in Newfoundland, where we get... well, absolutely insane winds. 120km/hr storms happen several times a year, and 80km/hr is quite common. Rain typically falls closer to horizontally than vertically. (this is intended as a fun antic dote, not an argumentative counterpoint, just to be clear!)

But I entirely agree with you, that such changes should be made more for the sake of gameplay interest, than as a reality simulator. I love the new disclaimer they've added to the beginning - Don't use what you learn in The Long Dark. It will make you die.

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12 minutes ago, cullam said:

Actually, I've experienced that a bunch! But I live in Newfoundland, where we get... well, absolutely insane winds. 120km/hr storms happen several times a year, and 80km/hr is quite common. Rain typically falls closer to horizontally than vertically. (this is intended as a fun antic dote, not an argumentative counterpoint, just to be clear!)

But I entirely agree with you, that such changes should be made more for the sake of gameplay interest, than as a reality simulator. I love the new disclaimer they've added to the beginning - Don't use what you learn in The Long Dark. It will make you die.

Oh, please offer all the examples you wish. It is not a counterpoint at all.  In fact, I'll answer my own rhetorical question from before.  According to the Beaufort Scale, it requires winds of 62 kph minimum to "generally impede progress".   Wind speeds less than that offer "inconvenience when walking against" or nothing.  A windspeed of 63 kph would create a windchill of approx. -55 c on a -25 to -30 day.  The game substantially impedes our progress with windspeeds that could be assumed to be around 20 to 25 kph. 

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1 hour ago, Mroz4k said:

@TROY, I didnt want to pick a fight, but I dont deal with ignorance easily.

As a matter of fact, maple is great material to make a bow out of, and from a point blank range you could in fact kill a deer instantly with a survival bow. I remember Dave Canterbury spoke of this in one of his YouTube videos, that he hunts deer with makeshift bows and glass arrows from the range of 8 meters and drops them instantly, because he cares to put the animal down as quickly and cleanly as possible, make sure it doesnt suffer.

 

I am going ahead and quoting this one small part of your reply.  I'm well aware that maple is frequently used in the construction of bows, but rarely by itself. Its normally used in manufactured bows that are also employing modern materials. Regardless, my emphasis was on "stick" meaning just a sapling cut and dryed, and a length of gut attached as a string.  I cannot refute your claim of Dave Canterbury's words, but the only video I could find of his that shows him killing a deer with a bow, was with a modern bow and modern arrows and it took 2 shots, and a lot of waiting for the animal to die. Real deer, and the game deer dont let you get at point blank range to put one in their eyeball. Even high powered hunting rifles don't usually drop them in their tracks unless you've gotten a good clean headshot.  It's uncommon to say the least, even for experienced hunters who are very skilled with their weapon to kill animals instantly. 

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15 minutes ago, TROY said:

I am going ahead and quoting this one small part of your reply.  I'm well aware that maple is frequently used in the construction of bows, but rarely by itself. Its normally used in manufactured bows that are also employing modern materials. Regardless, my emphasis was on "stick" meaning just a sapling cut and dryed, and a length of gut attached as a string.  I cannot refute your claim of Dave Canterbury's words, but the only video I could find of his that shows him killing a deer with a bow, was with a modern bow and modern arrows and it took 2 shots, and a lot of waiting for the animal to die. Real deer, and the game deer dont let you get at point blank range to put one in their eyeball. Even high powered hunting rifles don't usually drop them in their tracks unless you've gotten a good clean headshot.  It's uncommon to say the least, even for experienced hunters who are very skilled with their weapon to kill animals instantly. 

Why do you even bother? You guys are clearly talking past each other. The only part of your initial post, that he had an issue with, was the idea to build new structures from scratch, which - let's just agree on this - would of course be possible, albeit a trojan effort and rather impractical, seeing how many usable structures there are already.

And before I would even attempt to build a log cabin or other type of hut, I would certainly build some kind of sleigh. And once you have a sturdy, large sleigh you might even be able to move one of the ice fishing huts to another location. But let's be realistic: None of this is going to happen in TLD.

So, if you don't mind, I'd love if we could stick a bit closer to the OP and talk about improvements to the game that stay within the framework of what we have already. I used to complain that you cannot pick up rabbits or drag deer or wolf carcasses and now you can / we have quartering. Maybe we can achieve something similar with tidying up / burying corpses... :)

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3 minutes ago, Hesha said:

Why do you even bother? You guys are clearly talking past each other. The only part of your initial post, that he had an issue with, was the idea to build new structures from scratch, which - let's just agree on this - would of course be possible, albeit a trojan effort and rather impractical, seeing how many usable structures there are already.

And before I would even attempt to build a log cabin or other type of hut, I would certainly build some kind of sleigh. And once you have a sturdy, large sleigh you might even be able to move one of the ice fishing huts to another location. But let's be realistic: None of this is going to happen in TLD.

So, if you don't mind, I'd love if we could stick a bit closer to the OP and talk about improvements to the game that stay within the framework of what we have already. I used to complain that you cannot pick up rabbits or drag deer or wolf carcasses and now you can / we have quartering. Maybe we can achieve something similar with tidying up / burying corpses... :)

Sadly, its unlikely. We've been asking to get rid of corpses for two years now.  I do apologize for the derailment of the thread.

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27 minutes ago, Hesha said:

By the way: I have done the same thing, restarting the game until there was no corpse in the Camp Office ^^

What, you don't like Mortimer? Haha.

I tell him to keep an eye on my rifle every time I go out to do some fishing, and he always does a great job.

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Actually, it would not be possible. Have any of you ever tried to chop wood with a small hatchet? I have done it for years. If you have a hatchet at home and dont live in the snow wilderness, you can test this yourself: put a solid wet log into your freezer for three days and then pull it out, and try hacking at it. Or rather dont do that because you will probably just hurt yourself... wet wood which freezes gets incredibly hard and heavy, because it is not only made of wood but also frozen water. Doesnt it feel like the hatchet takes a lot of beating each time you use it to cut wood in TLD? Why do you think that is, just a game mechanic? No, it emits the fact that you carve the wood which is frozen stiff. Always wondered why you cant just drag the whole log? Good luck trying it, that piece of wood is frozen and sticked to the ground.

Truth is, hatchets are not made to carve into logs, they are intended for branches. Axe is what you need for logs.

And even then, we are talking about thigh-thick logs, not a lumber you would need to build a log cabin, however small it was... you need saw for that, circular saw at best, to be able to split it. 

None of those things are performed with frozen wood. What will you do, build monumental fires to thaw the lumber next to them? How will you transport the lumber to your desired location? Dont tell me on a sleigh... you would need a horse or rather two at least to move a single piece of lumber. What then once its on the location where you want to build the cabin? Do you thaw it again? How will you turn it to the cabin now? Hack at it for hours upon hours to no end to cut a single piece to two bits?

Even if you were using the thigh-thick pieces of logs to build this cabin of yours (which would provide very shitty temperature isolation with a wall this thin) it would be next to impossible feat to even split these pieces just with the tools you would have at hand.

The only way i can feasibly see some splits done is if you used sharpened sticks hammered into the log with the back of the hatchet, which could eventually produce split logs. Either way, you would have frozen to death long before you would even get the wood to that location.

If anyone wants to keep complaining about how it is totally possible to build a log cabin by yourself in TLD, please read up on what it actually "means" to build a log cabin in the first place. Especially that part which says it takes roughly 280 days to finish a log cabin... and what tools are neccesary for it. And do note how they speak of wood drying... etc etc etc.

@TROY, you are lucky. I was going to humiliate you further but I am not going to bother. Besides it would hardly have an effect anyways - if you cant accept the fact that you are wrong, arguing with you is pointless.
Rainbow trout is not a specific fish, you dumbwit. Its a sub-species, and yes, steelhead is a species of rainbow trout that lives in sea water, aka also called Coastal rainbow trout. The argument you made is equivalent to arguing that a "crap" is not actually "crap", but a type of a "excrement" - completedly ignoring the point where both words mean the same exact thing. And even those are technically a sweet water species, since they return to sweet water to lay eggs after living in ocean for two years. So yes, it is possible to catch a rainbow trout in a sea at a coast.
And yes, it is possible to catch them on a single hook, with no bait. The fish dont have a big brain, they see something U shaped swimming in a water and their instinct tells them its a worm. Fishermen forums seems to dissagree with your mighty statement that it impossible to catch something on an empty hook. Especially on a metal, shiny hook which attracts their attention even more. The only neccesarity is that the fish you are catching is a predator, going after other small fish, insects and worms. If it is, you can catch them on an empty hook.
I have more arguments I could pull but I am going to stop myself here. You have a good day.

I have said my piece on the topic. I even gave some suggestions of how to do it. I dont think it will matter because it is quite a lot of work and dedication to put into the game for little reward, but the thought counts.

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I'm not going to continue the derailment of the thread by arguing with someone who accepts altered reality in every other aspect of the game and insists on perfect realism on the suggestion of added content. Congratulations, youve earned my very first "ignore" in two years as part of this community.

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