New post death mechanic - ok - yeah!

[Slopey]

Just died after an aiming for 100+ day run because I glitched out at the Raven Falls Trestle - got stuck on the terrain, tried to reposition, retraced my steps, and fell off.  Thanks game... weeks of sporadic play wasted due to a stupid RNG terrain issue.

I was against the die-restart mechanism when first announced, but given the game has just destroyed my last few weeks of playtime for a terrain issue - sure - bring it on.

I doubt I'll play for a few weeks now in disgust until I get over this last one.  Grrrr.

[Slopey]

Thankfully I had a different machine which Steam hadn't restarted on after a Windows Update, so I could take it offline and restore the save.

That was *not* a fun experience though.

[peteloud]

Best to completely reject the Permadeath idea and make lots of manual saves as you go along.  Better still use the Save Anywhere mod.  I see it is changing in the next update.

[xanna]

19 hours ago, Slopey said:

Thankfully I had a different machine which Steam hadn't restarted on after a Windows Update, so I could take it offline and restore the save.

That was *not* a fun experience though.

Glad you got the save back

[ManicManiac]

I certainly understand and respect the sentiment...
but I very much embrace and appreciate permadeath. 

I think that losing a run over one mistake... or sometimes even just bad luck, is what makes each run so compelling.    

On 5/14/2024 at 12:00 AM, ManicManiac said:

Cheat Death:
I did not see this coming at all...  
I am glad that folks who would like this option, will have it.  I do love the idea that there are consequences to it (or a price to be paid, as it were).  Generally, I don't know that I would ever look to use it for my runs.  I really do like and appreciate permadeath.  For me, it's what makes each of my runs feel like a real, perilous, and ultimately precious adventure. 

Of course, at some point I would certainly give it a try... even if just for a side run to get a sense of those how those consequences feel and impact the overall experience.  I'm always up for a little arcane science. 🤭  

On 1/3/2024 at 7:28 PM, ManicManiac said:

I love that Survival Mode is a permadeath situation, I always have.  I think it makes each run feel like an important struggle and also means that mistakes can feel like they have real consequences.  I feel it serves to encourage us to get better at managing our resources, survival tasks, and to pay better attention to our surroundings as well as to what we're doing.

I play this game because I enjoy the struggle, and I love that this game is not afraid to punish the player for mistakes (and even sometimes just punishes us via merciless RNG).  I never get upset, discouraged, or otherwise mourn the loss of a run because I always enjoy the struggles that come with trying to find gear and supplies in order to "find my footing" again.

[ThePancakeLady]

1 hour ago, ManicManiac said:

I certainly understand and respect the sentiment...
but I very much embrace and appreciate permadeath. 

I think that losing a run over one mistake... or sometimes even just bad luck, is what makes each run so compelling.    

Though I had played some roguelike games before, they were dungeon crawlers- which hit a bit differently than a survival game. TLD was the first survival game that actually hit right, and grabbed me and my attention. I hated the permadeath at first, but learned to appreciate it.

But that's me- not everyone feels the same way. Which is why some people only want to play Wintermute- no permadeath, reloading old saves for do-overs if they make a big mistake. Those players may feel more comfortable trying Survival mode, knowing that they can make big mistakes and have a chance to keep going. And it isn't going to be "free" like it is in Story Mode- there is going to be a price that sounds like it won't be a small price the first time, and will get more severe if they choose the cheat death a second or third time. That should keep some of the challenge in the game (or add a whole new level of challenge to it).

Though the more I see people on the Steam forums requesting a toggle to enable or disable the option at the start of a new run, the more I respect that opinion. There are people who will be tempted to use the option and feel like they won't be able to stop themselves from doing so, the same way some people will never stop creating manual backup saves to cheat death with the only penalty being loss of time and progress. That option has always existed, and always will. But adding a toggle at the start of a new run for people who don't want the temptation- I think that would be fair, and is likely an option I would use (after checking out the cheat death system a few times just to see what it's all about).

[Superbluebaby]

I think the post death mechanic would be a good idea. You’ll eventually run out of chances if I’ve read the news post properly, so it’ll still be permadeath. You’ll also be inflicted with permanent ailments as-well as the lost of items so it seems fairly balanced. Plus. You can always choose not to use it and die if you die. It’s fairly optional.

 

[Looper]

On 5/30/2024 at 9:48 AM, Superbluebaby said:

I think the post death mechanic would be a good idea. You’ll eventually run out of chances if I’ve read the news post properly, so it’ll still be permadeath.

Seems a little strange to me. If you've chosen to play without death, why not then let ppl go bonanza in fresh lives. Or else they will backup anyways 🙂

On 5/26/2024 at 3:37 AM, ManicManiac said:

I think that losing a run over one mistake... or sometimes even just bad luck, is what makes each run so compelling.  

Could not agree more. The fear of loosing something is what give it value. 

 

[Leeanda]

Without knowing what the consequences will be ,I can't imagine whether it'll make any difference..    it could make it worse than permadeath and put you off even trying again..     

I reckon some might even use it to turn it into a harder version of loper at some point... 

Personally I'm going to try it on a side run and see what happens...  Same as any other mechanic... I don't have an issue with dying ...unless it's because of a bug or technical issue.   It's up to the individual how they play and I think htl did a good job in catering to all players..😊

[conanjaguar]

2 hours ago, Leeanda said:

I reckon some might even use it to turn it into a harder version of loper at some point... 

Cough cough 😁.

Other than that, though, I don't really see myself using it. In games where you die and can respawn it's always such a pain to get back to where you were, at least for me...

[I_eat_only_wolf_meat]

Personally I'm not interested in the new feature, but we'll see what it looks like when it gets implemented.  I would like to see some small distinction / badge / whatnot for playing without it, or maybe some kind of nice little trinket with minimal effect on gameplay.

[Stone]

I'm interested on how its implemented - these choices the player will have if they cheat death. It makes sense thematically if you're left with some permanent, significant, injury problem - a mangled hand so you can hardly aim and load a bow/rifle - a mandled foot so you can't move so fast and stumble more. Such things may end a character for some, for other they may just add to the story.

For a game that always aimed to offer "a set of interesting chiices" i think its a good move.

[artmunki]

15 hours ago, Stone said:

For a game that always aimed to offer "a set of interesting chiices" i think its a good move.

I think that's what has me most intrigued about the cheating death mechanic. This is a pretty major addition/change to the game, but Hinterland have been pretty consistent at making new additions interesting, and in making them fit the overall feel of the game.

Some of their additions may not have been entirely to my personal taste, but everything has actually added to the choices you have available in game, and has been done without diminishing anything that was already there. That's pretty impressive in the world of game development, and I'll always be keen to see what they have to offer next.

[UpUpAway95]

Cheat death seems like a very realistic addition in that it adds something to the game that 1) doesn't kill you outright and 2) that you cannot completely heal so that going forward only gets harder.  It takes fortitude to persevere and try to survive when you're crippled - permanently so.  Some things that don't kill you can make you wish it had.  I'm really looking forward to this!

[ThePancakeLady]

2 minutes ago, UpUpAway95 said:

Cheat death seems like a very realistic addition in that it adds something to the game that 1) doesn't kill you outright and 2) that you cannot completely heal so that going forward only gets harder.  It takes fortitude to persevere and try to survive when you're crippled - permanently so.  Some things that don't kill you can make you wish it had.  I'm really looking forward to this!

Yeah, I am curious how it works. If it will be something like Frostbite- removing a chunk of your max HP permanently- debuff stackable, but only so many times before it kills you outright. Hoping it won't be exactly the same as Frostbite (not the same -HP debuff) but something new, like cutting your max carry capacity, or cutting your max Stamina (affecting climbing and sprinting) or something like that.

[UpUpAway95]

1 hour ago, ThePancakeLady said:

Yeah, I am curious how it works. If it will be something like Frostbite- removing a chunk of your max HP permanently- debuff stackable, but only so many times before it kills you outright. Hoping it won't be exactly the same as Frostbite (not the same -HP debuff) but something new, like cutting your max carry capacity, or cutting your max Stamina (affecting climbing and sprinting) or something like that.

I doubt it's going to be like Frostbite, which hardly feels like a handicap most of the time.  Even in Loper, it's usually something that occurs early as it becomes avoidable once one has the means to make improvised wraps or has stashed some extra clothing in case something gets ruined during an attack.  Conceivably, it could be as simple as forcing the player to increase the difficulty setting in order to continue (but I doubt they would do that either).  Ideally, I'd like to see the penalty somewhat relevant to whatever caused the "death" in the first place - e.g. a fall death results in a permanently crippled leg, slowing travel down, limiting carry capacity (which is now somewhat overcome-able now with the travois), and perhaps even necessitating making a special ascending tool in order to climb ropes.  It could also mean something like the cap on how cold the world gets comes off.

Each such mistake will unavoidably make going forward harder than before it happened.  A means of allowing the game to get harder and harder as one gets further into it is something that has been lacking for some time and something many players have been also asking for -even though they may not realize it.  This means it won't just happen after X days, but will happen IF and WHEN the player makes a mistake.  I really like that idea.

Whatever, the trade-off should be significant such that the "fear" of a "near death experience" is essentially or nearly as great as that of a permadeath one.  It's a feature that I don't think will necessarily lessen the fear of making a "fatal" mistake.

[Pencil]

32 minutes ago, UpUpAway95 said:

I doubt it's going to be like Frostbite, which hardly feels like a handicap most of the time.  Even in Loper, it's usually something that occurs early as it becomes avoidable once one has the means to make improvised wraps or has stashed some extra clothing in case something gets ruined during an attack.  Conceivably, it could be as simple as forcing the player to increase the difficulty setting in order to continue (but I doubt they would do that either).  Ideally, I'd like to see the penalty somewhat relevant to whatever caused the "death" in the first place - e.g. a fall death results in a permanently crippled leg, slowing travel down, limiting carry capacity (which is now somewhat overcome-able now with the travois), and perhaps even necessitating making a special ascending tool in order to climb ropes.  It could also mean something like the cap on how cold the world gets comes off.

Each such mistake will unavoidably make going forward harder than before it happened.  A means of allowing the game to get harder and harder as one gets further into it is something that has been lacking for some time and something many players have been also asking for -even though they may not realize it.  This means it won't just happen after X days, but will happen IF and WHEN the player makes a mistake.  I really like that idea.

Whatever, the trade-off should be significant such that the "fear" of a "near death experience" is essentially or nearly as great as that of a permadeath one.  It's a feature that I don't think will necessarily lessen the fear of making a "fatal" mistake.

This is exactly what I'm hoping for too. A debuff related to the cause of death. That way it feels more like "near death" where you barely survive rather than coming back to life lol. 

[ManicManiac]

Not much longer to wait.