Part 4 - Scurvy

[hozz1235]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scurvy

Some of my thoughts/questions:

1. What foods provide the necessary vitamin C?  I'm guessing:
   • Any canned fruits
   • Rosehips
   • Potatoes, Carrots
   • Sardines
   • Energy Drink
   • Other?
2. The cure appears to be just consuming vitamin C. 
   • I'm guessing we will need to eat/drink something with VC then wait or rest a number of hours - similar to other afflictions
3. What will be the in-game effects of the affliction?
   • I'm guessing progressive health loss as well as reduced health recovery
   • Fatigue

Any other thoughts?

[UpUpAway95]

I think an elevated risk of infection is also potentially an effect.  That risk could climb slowly when insufficient Vitamin C is being ingested before that actual scurvy affliction kicks in (similar to how parasite risk builds), giving us some warning and indication as to how "balanced" our diet is prior to getting the affliction.

[Valuable Hunting Knife]

energy drink is a good shout, they're full of all sorts!  I like UUA95s idea of how it might work.  telling perhaps that the potato description mentions it is 'highly nutritious'.

I also posted this on the dev diary thread, hopefully relevant to this discussion:

re: scurvy, raw or partially cooked fresh meat can have enough vitamin c to prevent/cure it- so either we may see a tweak to the cooking system, or a possible dilemma to eat raw meat and risk parasites!  I also dug this out on wikipedia:

Food fortification[edit]

In 2014, the Canadian Food Inspection Agency evaluated the effect of fortification of foods with ascorbate in the guidance document, Foods to Which Vitamins, Mineral Nutrients and Amino Acids May or Must be Added.^[110] Voluntary and mandatory fortification was described for various classes of foods. Among foods classified for mandatory fortification with vitamin C were fruit-flavored drinks, mixes, and concentrates, foods for a low-energy diet, meal replacement products, and evaporated milk.^[110]

Vitamin C - Wikipedia

add in spuds and carrots, and there's quite a few possible vitamin c sources already in the game.

[Leeanda]

Wouldn't the mushrooms have some?

 

I should say that my long time junk food diet ,without meat or veg/fruit has never given me a vitamin c deficiency.. 

We take in more vitamin c than the body needs .. but this isn't really based on real life so I've no idea.. I hope it's something that I haven't already used up or there's a new resource coming.

[Bimbobjoejr.]

Kinda hope they'll add vitamin c tablets/ drink mixes as a "quick fix" method of gaining vitamin c. Maybe work similar to water purification tablets, makes blank amount of vitamin water

[rush247]

Silver Birch is a good source irl.  I know they may not make it that easy to get but it would be nice if Birch Bark Tea ends up being an in game source.

 

https://www.schoolofthewild.com/blog/silver-birch-twigs-and-buds-make-a-tasty-and-healing-tea

[Enigmaecho]

11 hours ago, hozz1235 said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scurvy

Some of my thoughts/questions:

1. What foods provide the necessary vitamin C?  I'm guessing:
   • Any canned fruits
   • Rosehips
   • Potatoes, Carrots
   • Sardines
   • Energy Drink
   • Other?
2. The cure appears to be just consuming vitamin C. 
   • I'm guessing we will need to eat/drink something with VC then wait or rest a number of hours - similar to other afflictions
3. What will be the in-game effects of the affliction?
   • I'm guessing progressive health loss as well as reduced health recovery
   • Fatigue

Any other thoughts?

Cattails are high in Vit C and others, Burdock has some Vit C as well, i would love if they added pine needle teas, perhaps adding the bows that the bowbeds are made of as another tree litter to pick giving needles and a sticks or let us make the makeshift bowbed maybe

[Enigmaecho]

1 hour ago, rush247 said:

Silver Birch is a good source irl.  I know they may not make it that easy to get but it would be nice if Birch Bark Tea ends up being an in game source.

 

https://www.schoolofthewild.com/blog/silver-birch-twigs-and-buds-make-a-tasty-and-healing-tea

oh thats actually a decent canidate, birch is renewable so it wont doom long runs

[Kranium]

MREs would have it; fortified just like energy drinks often are. Also, any animal liver. (I always assume that in TLD the survivor is eating every edible bit of the animal, same as you do IRL)

• Burdock (medium/low amount)
• peaches
• condensed milk (low amount)
• cattail stalks
• energy bar
• rose hips
• tomato soup
• potatoes
• birch bark (high)
• corn
• carrot (medium/low amount)
• livers from animals (varies, usually medium to high)

So, there's a lot there the devs can tweak to their liking. Or they could add pine needles > tea, as a new standalone renewable. Pine needles have a higher concentration of Vitamin C than oranges! (but IIRC it's species dependant; they all have a lot of it, regardless)

 

 

 

[UpUpAway95]

20 minutes ago, Kranium said:

MREs would have it; fortified just like energy drinks often are. Also, any animal liver. (I always assume that in TLD the survivor is eating every edible bit of the animal, same as you do IRL)

• Burdock (medium/low amount)
• peaches
• condensed milk (low amount)
• cattail stalks
• energy bar
• rose hips
• tomato soup
• potatoes
• birch bark (high)
• corn
• carrot (medium/low amount)
• livers from animals (varies, usually medium to high)

So, there's a lot there the devs can tweak to their liking. Or they could add pine needles > tea, as a new standalone renewable. Pine needles have a higher concentration of Vitamin C than oranges! (but IIRC it's species dependant; they all have a lot of it, regardless)

 

 

 

With almost every food in TLD being recognized as a source of Vitamin C, it looks like scurvy should be almost impossible to get and they shouldn't have to add any new additional sources for vitamin C at all. 😀

[MavByte]

I also wonder on how do we know when we need to get some Vitamin C and how much would be needed.
Will it be just another invisible value kinda like cabin fever (risk)?
It'd propably much to ask for, but I'd like to have another indicator next to temperature, etc. so i know how much Vitamin C i need. Cause (obviously) just consuming one item that gives me Vitamin C wouldn't suffice and some of us wouldn't like the risk of scurvy even occur in the first place.

Edited November 14, 2023 by MavByte

[UpUpAway95]

2 hours ago, MavByte said:

I also wonder on how do we know when we need to get some Vitamin C and how much would be needed.
Will it be just another invisible value kinda like cabin fever (risk)?
It'd propably much to ask for, but I'd like to have another indicator next to temperature, etc. so i know how much Vitamin C i need. Cause (obviously) just consuming one item that gives me Vitamin C wouldn't suffice and some of us wouldn't like the risk of scurvy even occur in the first place.

I wouldn't really want another "in your face" indicator just for vitamin C.  If they add a vitamin C amount line to the description of each food item, we should be able to calculate on our own whether we're meeting whatever their target for consumption will be that keeps the disease at bay.

The most likely scenario, I think, is the introduction of pine needle and/or spruce needle tea.  Pine needle tea is how the Iroquois are credited with reversing scurvy in the crews of the early explorers to North America.  They may also introduce bottles of vitamins.

Edited November 14, 2023 by UpUpAway95

[hozz1235]

5 hours ago, UpUpAway95 said:

12 hours ago, UpUpAway95 said:

With almost every food in TLD being recognized as a source of Vitamin C, it looks like scurvy should be almost impossible to get and they shouldn't have to add any new additional sources for vitamin C at all. 😀

The most likely scenario, I think, is the introduction of pine needle and/or spruce needle tea.  Pine needle tea is how the Iroquois are credited with reversing scurvy in the crews of the early explorers to North America.  They may also introduce bottles of vitamins.

As you stated, sounds like there are plenty of options (even for long runs) to prevent scurvy.  Another item may not be necessary.

[UpUpAway95]

18 minutes ago, hozz1235 said:

As you stated, sounds like there are plenty of options (even for long runs) to prevent scurvy.  Another item may not be necessary.

Scurvy can be prevent with lower amounts of Vitamin C than it takes to cure/reverse it.  So, the additional item my be something with that higher concentration needed.

[hozz1235]

22 hours ago, UpUpAway95 said:

Scurvy can be prevent with lower amounts of Vitamin C than it takes to cure/reverse it.  So, the additional item my be something with that higher concentration needed.

On 11/13/2023 at 9:46 PM, UpUpAway95 said:

With almost every food in TLD being recognized as a source of Vitamin C, it looks like scurvy should be almost impossible to get and they shouldn't have to add any new additional sources for vitamin C at all. 😀

If there are plenty of items to deal with it in game already, why would we need an additional item?

[ManicManiac]

On 11/13/2023 at 10:46 PM, UpUpAway95 said:

With almost every food in TLD being recognized as a source of Vitamin C, it looks like scurvy should be almost impossible to get and they shouldn't have to add any new additional sources for vitamin C at all. 😀

I suppose then... this might beg the question; why add the affliction then?
I think the answer lies in the power of player choice.  I think that if we choose to neglect our "diet" for the purposes of trying to "min/max," then it seems now we have a consequence we can suffer from just (for example) solely subsisting off of rabbit snares (or whatever might prompt this sort of malnutrition... I'm not a nutritionist... so take my example with a "grain of salt" 😋).

I have no idea how it's all going to work... but I hope it's more akin to cabin fever where it becomes something as a consequence of player choice rather than something we have to actively micromanage. 

Edited November 15, 2023 by ManicManiac

[UpUpAway95]

1 hour ago, ManicManiac said:

I suppose then... this might beg the question; why add the affliction then?
I think the answer lies in the power of player choice.  I think that if we choose to neglect our "diet" for the purposes of trying to "min/max," then it seems now we have a consequence we can suffer from just (for example) solely subsisting off of rabbit snares (or whatever might prompt this sort of malnutrition... I'm not a nutritionist... so take my example with a "grain of salt" 😋).

I have no idea how it's all going to work... but I hope it's more akin to cabin fever where it becomes something as a consequence of player choice rather than something we have to actively micromanage. 

I think it's much simpler than that - it's just an another affliction being added to the game and it won't really have any connection to whether or not the IRL an all meat diet provides enough Vitamin C.  It will have a mechanic in the context of the game where it is possible to contract it and it will have an mechanic that players can use to avoid it and another one they can use to cure it.  It's just another "pixel" parameter we have to which we have to pay attention.  They can set Vitamin C levels in the foods anywhere.  It doesn't really have to be connected closely to reality.  They can also set the character's need for amounts of Vitamin C at any level, whether or not it is tied to the levels we actually need in real life.

I don't think the devs are out to chastise or teach any lessons to any particular group of players for however they play the game and I certainly don't think they are out to teach any of us about nutrition.  The goal is always the same for all - stay alive in game for as long as you can however you can - adapting to whatever circumstances the game's RNG throws at you. 

Edited November 15, 2023 by UpUpAway95

[DaPepster]

The biggest contributor of Vitamin C in the game is the Rose Hip Tea, next being the Pinnacle Peaches.  Rose hips pound for pound have at least three times or more vitamin C than any citrus fruits, so if that isn't accounted for in the game when the update comes out, I'll be a little disappointed.

Also, it will be interesting to see scurvy affects you over time... because one of the symptoms of scurvy is having old wounds opening up again... so will someone afflicted with it begin to bleed at random times...? 

Edited November 17, 2023 by DaPepster

[Kranium]

I think scurvy gives a reason to add a new item (pine needles) which is renewable (like sticks and animals) and also offers a non-animal means of nutrition.

 

The only other vegetarian-foodstuff-type renewable I can think of which would fit would be seaweed. High in many nutrients, grows in cold water. Just needs enough light to filter through the ice to happily keep on keepin' on.

[Dan_]

That would make sense. I'm pretty positive I've seen people eat Bull Kelp in the Alone TV show as a way of replenishing vitamin C. 

Maybe it should wash ashore every now and then so you can dry and powder it or prepare as a tea straight up. Would also be a fit location wise assuming GB is located somewhere on the BC coast. 

Edited November 21, 2023 by Dan_
Grammer thingy