No Sleep While Bleeding

[JayEnfield]

This just keeps happening to me.

I came back to TLD after a long break, had a very exciting run in progress, but I died the same way I virtually always do: have a small tussle with a wolf, go find somewhere safe and then have a nap to regain condition... Without knowing that my guy is bleeding. Out of the corner of my eye I see the condition meter lurch hard towards zero, but there's no way to cancel the sleep and no way to bail before the save-erasure begins. 

Since even an hour of sleep while bleeding is a guaranteed death sentence, there's no logical reason for the player to be able to sleep while bleeding. I have absolutely no problem with my guy dying because I got lost in a blizzard or getting nibbled to death by timberwolves because I lacked protection... But my guy bleeding out without any obvious indication that I was even in danger feels so awful and arbitrary.

Please please please save me from myself. Do not allow sleep while bleeding. Just give me the little error noise of Can't Do That, and a note that says 'you cannot sleep while bleeding' and I'll me like "oh heck, right" and use the armload of bandages that I always have on me for such occasions.

[rush247]

5 hours ago, JayEnfield said:

But my guy bleeding out without any obvious indication

   I do agree it shouldn't be possible but this part is untrue, the little yellow exclamation that you see in this pick is visible whenever you're in distress whether it be from risk of hypothermia, a sprain, parasites, etc.   Yes even bleeding out.  I know it's small but it is there.

[JayEnfield]

This would be the "obvious" part. I have gotten very good at most aspects of this game, and I've lost enough 300+ day playthroughs that I TRY to be on top of this detail. But all it takes is to not notice it once while performing a multiple-step process, and boom, insta-death from nearly full-health, with the remedy for the situation right there in my bag. 

[rush247]

15 hours ago, JayEnfield said:

This would be the "obvious" part. I have gotten very good at most aspects of this game, and I've lost enough 300+ day playthroughs that I TRY to be on top of this detail. But all it takes is to not notice it once while performing a multiple-step process, and boom, insta-death from nearly full-health, with the remedy for the situation right there in my bag. 

I've only had that happen with non-bleeding related issues (gotten in the habit of checking myself after every attack) maybe they should add a togglable option for your health bar to flash red after a bit.

[odizzido]

Personally I think it should require some effort to cause yourself harm if it would be hard to not notice IRL. Yours is but one example. How could you not notice all the liquid coming out of you? Same thing with eating raw meat. Of course you would notice IRL, so why is it a simple misclick away?

 

This game is pretty full of this stuff though. How on earth do you accidentally throw a rock when trying to pick up a rabbit?

 

For me personally this game would greatly benefit if one person were to sit down and look at what things happen in the game that would be ridiculous in real life and then fix it. Let me step over a twig please.

[James Hickok]

On 10/8/2023 at 6:36 AM, JayEnfield said:

This just keeps happening to me.

I came back to TLD after a long break, had a very exciting run in progress, but I died the same way I virtually always do: have a small tussle with a wolf, go find somewhere safe and then have a nap to regain condition... Without knowing that my guy is bleeding. Out of the corner of my eye I see the condition meter lurch hard towards zero, but there's no way to cancel the sleep and no way to bail before the save-erasure begins. 

Since even an hour of sleep while bleeding is a guaranteed death sentence, there's no logical reason for the player to be able to sleep while bleeding. I have absolutely no problem with my guy dying because I got lost in a blizzard or getting nibbled to death by timberwolves because I lacked protection... But my guy bleeding out without any obvious indication that I was even in danger feels so awful and arbitrary.

Please please please save me from myself. Do not allow sleep while bleeding. Just give me the little error noise of Can't Do That, and a note that says 'you cannot sleep while bleeding' and I'll me like "oh heck, right" and use the armload of bandages that I always have on me for such occasions.

Ugh. I dont even try to count how many times i died in sleep bcoz i failed to drink, failed to put some wood in the fire etc. Its part of the game mechanic even if it feels unreal. You have to be aware what happened to Your char. The indications are noticable and while bleeding you leave a blood trail behind you not to mention your health bar going down really really fast. 

I know its frustrating but as i said its intended. 

There is a preset in custom mode settings that will wake you up when you are freezing but i dont think it works on bleed or if there is another preset for it. Maybe ask for it in wish list ? 

[ManicManiac]

On 10/4/2023 at 6:03 AM, ManicManiac said:

I like that this game isn't afraid to punish the player for poor choices/mistakes.

On 7/14/2023 at 9:32 PM, ManicManiac said:

I've always really loved that this game is willing to punish us for mistakes.  I love this game because of the struggle.  It's much the same reason that I've never really used feats; I'm just not interested in things that make life easier for the player.   

Have I had times in my early days of developing my playstyle where I [experienced just what] you described, yes... absolutely I have.  However, I just cussed myself out... took it on the chin and resolved to never make that mistake again.   It was the same with accidently firing the revolver "from the hip" unintentionally.  Same situation... I just focused on never making that mistake again either. 

Anyway, this is just how I approach it.  I see a game that just requires us to be careful and deliberate... so when I run into things like this, I don't see something that needs to be changed.  I see something that I need to get better at.

On 4/14/2023 at 9:06 AM, ManicManiac said:

As I see it, this is a game that requires players to pay attention to what they are doing.  It's a game that has real consequences for mistakes (and sometimes just misfortune).  It's a game that (to use Raph's words), "don't want to make a game that's going to hold the player's hand."

And... it's a game that is willing to punish us for our mistakes.  (which I think is what I love about TLD most of all)

 

Again, this game rewards careful and deliberate action... and punishes mistakes.  If we pay attention to what we are doing, then those accidents don't really happen.  If we don't run around with an unlit torch in hand... then we'll never accidently waste a match by mis-clicking.  If we keep a fire striker on hand... then that will never happen either, since we get a UI to select ignition source (assuming we already have matches on hand).  As long as we pay attention to what we are doing we will never "accidentally" eat raw meat... from the radial we get a bit of a "handholding" kind of warning in for form of an "ARE YOU SURE???" interrupt.

If we are paying attention, we can sustain a campfire out in the open literally anywhere.  The wind never blows out the fire completely... but rather reduces the fire to about 9 minutes.  So... as long as we nurse a fire one stick at a time and we don't pile on wood when we know it's already windy... then we can keep a fire going under any circumstances (I've done this through blizzard more than once) and for as long as we have sticks on hand.

If we are paying attention, we'd never freeze to death in our sleep (by trying to sleep 10+ hours while out in the open or in an exposed "shelter").  ...all we have to do is pay attention to the temperature and nap in shorter increments. 🤭

  And... if the player is paying attention, then they would check for bleeding after an attack... and then the player would never again die because they made the mistake of going to bed while still bleeding out.

I'm not a fan of the kind of "hand-holding safety nets" that wishlist items like this propose.
Raph as mentioned many times before he didn't want the game to hold the players hand... and I really dislike the idea of the game having guard rails to save the player from their own bad choices and mistakes.

I think the better answer is for the player to learn from their mistakes/misfortunes and to better pay attention to their survivor & to their surroundings. 

[Leeanda]

I always check my condition and clothes after any attack.. same as I check I have my bedroll etc before going anywhere..  

Even if I can't see anything on the screen I'll still go onto my inventory and make sure..

Edited October 10, 2023 by Leeanda

[hozz1235]

1 hour ago, Leeanda said:

I always check my condition and clothes after any attack.. same as I check I have my bedroll etc before going anywhere..  

Even if I can't see anything on the screen I'll still go onto my inventory and make sure..

Same.  Instead of having the game hold your hand, learn from and change how you play.

[JayEnfield]

As an alternative... I would settle for some manner of indicator that my condition is currently dropping. Condition bar pulsing or dashed red, or something of the like. This would also entirely solve the issue that has plagued me since I first began playing TLD. The tiny yellow (!) is just not sufficient. Perhaps this could even be optional or maybe someone could add this into the UI via a mod?

IMO it's not "hand-holding" to want easier access to information that feels like it ~should~ be at hand in a simulation.

[James Hickok]

5 hours ago, JayEnfield said:

As an alternative... I would settle for some manner of indicator that my condition is currently dropping. Condition bar pulsing or dashed red, or something of the like.

If i recall correctly: When You have bleed effect You character not only groans in pain but whines about using first aid asap, and something like "Im going to bleed out". 

And yes after any attack i ALWAYS check my condition and clothing condition. 

[TiffTastic]

For me knowing that kind of a death is a possibility keeps me from going to sleep….

[conanjaguar]

While it’s true that this is something that you’re supposed to make sure that you do, it does seem more than a little odd that it’s even possible to sleep when you’re bleeding out… or suffering from any other untreated affliction, for that matter.

So yeah, this suggestion seems fair .

[ManicManiac]

On 10/11/2023 at 11:01 AM, conanjaguar said:

a little odd that it’s even possible to sleep when you’re bleeding out

🤔 To be fair... one of the "effects" of massive blood loss is  loss of consciousness.  😋

Edited October 13, 2023 by ManicManiac

[Third Try]

I lost my longest stalker run this way.  At least notify me when I try to sleep while bleeding, please.  I do not really think this is handholding a player, this is just preventing death from a really easily avoidable thing, it's just that it's not easy to remember sometimes.  I don't know, but I don't think it would ruin anything because it would only interupt very rarely (only once in my case) 😄

[JackTrysGames]

On 10/8/2023 at 12:36 AM, JayEnfield said:

I came back to TLD after a long break, had a very exciting run in progress, but I died the same way I virtually always do: have a small tussle with a wolf, go find somewhere safe and then have a nap to regain condition... Without knowing that my guy is bleeding.

How do you not realize your guy is bleeding? You're literally handed a list of your wounds after a struggle, and your character literally mentions "Gotta stop the bleeding."

 

Is this another Dead Space "Cut Off Their Limbs" incident?

[AdamvR]

… it happened to me a long time ago. Was such a shocking experience, that ever since I pay more attention to the wounds showing up in the right during a struggle, to see if there’s anything red, than almost anything else in the game…  ‘gotta stop that bleeding’ is the first thing she usually says after.

I even walk / run away after a bear roll just a tiny bit keeping a close eye on the health meter, before  clicking on the bandage and cover up what’s red among the afflictions - last time even rebandaged a burn by accident.

it hurts, so that we learn, just like irl…

 

 

Edited November 8, 2023 by AdamvR

[AdamvR]

On 10/13/2023 at 3:58 AM, ManicManiac said:

To be fair... one of the "effects" of massive blood loss is  loss of consciousness

+ and this.

one of the things ambulance personnel does is not letting you fall asleep after an injury, however much you feel like to.
I doubt they do that out of cruelty…

 

TLD not having ambulance personnel is I believe one of the leading causes of death in the game. But I think, that is very much the point…

Edited November 8, 2023 by AdamvR

[conanjaguar]

On 11/8/2023 at 2:42 AM, AdamvR said:

TLD not having ambulance personnel is I believe one of the leading causes of death in the game. But I think, that is very much the point…

That just made my day 🤣.

[xanna]

On 10/13/2023 at 2:58 AM, ManicManiac said:

🤔 To be fair... one of the "effects" of massive blood loss is  loss of consciousness.  😋

It is IRL, but it's not in the game - the bloodloss affliction doesn't drain energy, and anyway having zero energy doesn't cause you to fall asleep involuntrily. For me it's therefore hard to use this as reasoning.

I am always very quick to bandage up a wound, I don't wait to do it. I'm too scared of the blood smell attracting more attackers, and losing condition so quickly. I bandage ASAP, like immediately, and often wait until I'm somewhere safe to apply antiseptic. I can't imagine ever going to sleep while bleeding because of that, but obviously we're all different and this issue has been raised by a few different people now. I have definitely gone to sleep without dealing with infection risk before, and that aint good either!

[JayEnfield]

Well, despite all the "sucks to suck" energy from the feedback, I'm still wishlisting "make it more visually obvious that condition is currently dropping". 

[xanna]

I can imagine a thing where icons for any afflictions you have flash up on the sleep menu. A bit like how your food and water meters show up when you're eating or drinking. And you still could sleep, but at least you're being shown your afflictions right as you're ready to hit 'sleep'.

[RobotDino11]

On 10/10/2023 at 11:33 AM, ManicManiac said:

  And... if the player is paying attention, then they would check for bleeding after an attack... and then the player would never again die because they made the mistake of going to bed while still bleeding out.

I'm not a fan of the kind of "hand-holding safety nets" that wishlist items like this propose.
Raph as mentioned many times before he didn't want the game to hold the players hand... and I really dislike the idea of the game having guard rails to save the player from their own bad choices and mistakes.

I think the better answer is for the player to learn from their mistakes/misfortunes and to better pay attention to their survivor & to their surroundings. 

to be fair, while i see your point, i kinda think that i would know if i was bleeding and wouldn't go to bed because of it. 

maybe it could be a feature that you could turn off or on, or maybe it would just be on the easier modes. 

[JayEnfield]

On 11/27/2023 at 7:25 AM, xanna said:

I can imagine a thing where icons for any afflictions you have flash up on the sleep menu. A bit like how your food and water meters show up when you're eating or drinking. And you still could sleep, but at least you're being shown your afflictions right as you're ready to hit 'sleep'.

Oh, I really like that solution.

[odizzido]

Yeah it sounds decent. It would be nice to have some indication of how long you can sleep without dying of dehydration too. Adding that in would make the game nicer to play so I wouldn't have to figure out the max duration of sleep.