Dear Hinterland, I don't want to waste anymore matches

[TwoFatCatz]

I've recently started playing interloper and want to suggest a change when lighting objects such as torches. Please can we make it so you don't actually use a match if the process isn't completely finished. I'm constantly using a match by accident because I'm holding an unlit torch, so I can fend of wolves but then go to pick up a stick and move slightly whilst doing so and then instead of picking up the stick I start to light my torch. However I don't hold the button down and finish the process because that's not what I want to do, yet I use a match. 

It's never been an issue for me in the past because I usually play easier survival modes, yet on interloper every match counts. 

What do others think? 

Anyway that's my suggestion. I love the new DLC and have so far had hours of fun. Keep up the great work 😊 @Admin

[Leeanda]

Agreed.  Even on pilgrim it's a waste.

[Stranzua]

This makes sense. Maybe they can make it so that the cursor has to fill up twice/have two rotations. The match actually lights after the first rotation and the torch is lit after the 2nd rotation. 

 

[ajb1978]

Lmao I wrote myself an auto-click script mapped to the E key, to make life easier when picking up massive heaps of sticks off the ground. I've gotten so used to just tapping E instead of using the LMB to click on objects, that one time when I went to light a torch I pressed E and blew through two entire cardboard matchbooks in about half a second.

I absolutely save-scummed that one, and I'm not ashamed to admit it. That was dumb.

[TwoFatCatz]

@ajb1978 lmao oh man.

I know people could say just put your torch away..but I shouldn’t have to. I just think it’s an issue that can be easily fixed and then the entire problem goes away. Nothing changes at all, except people don’t waste matches. 

[Serenity]

To me this sometimes happens when I want to light a torch in non-stressful situations. It can happen very easily. So I agree that it's a bit of an issue.

But this meta of always carrying around a torch on Interloper is somewhat silly. Silly in the sense that so many people try to sell it as the only way to play. Which just isn't true in any way. You can certainly do it (and it's sometimes very useful), but it's not needed. It's not needed to defend against wolves and it's not necessary to always have a fire everywhere.

So yeah, do something about it. But not because of Interloper.

Edited July 11, 2023 by Serenity

[TwoFatCatz]

@Serenity I completely agree with you. However as I stated I’m new to interloper and a fire And a stone that’s aimed, not thrown against wolves works %100 percent of the time as long as they arnt so close when you light the torch that they don’t care. I’d be interested to hear how you scare them off without using any weapons like arrows. Im always looking to improve. 
Fire is life in interloper so using matches unnecessarily is wasteful.

‘This issue should be simple enough to fix also. So come on Hinterland, a company that cares about their players 😁 please change this.

[Serenity]

I'm careful enough that I almost never get surprised by wolves that close. And when one notices me I just walk away if I can't kill him.

Otherwise there's the distress pistol for emergencies, but that's not so easy to get anymore. Later on you can get into a wolf struggle and survive in many cases.

[James Hickok]

On 7/11/2023 at 3:30 AM, TwoFatCatz said:

I've recently started playing interloper and want to suggest a change when lighting objects such as torches. Please can we make it so you don't actually use a match if the process isn't completely finished. I'm constantly using a match by accident because I'm holding an unlit torch, so I can fend of wolves but then go to pick up a stick and move slightly whilst doing so and then instead of picking up the stick I start to light my torch. However I don't hold the button down and finish the process because that's not what I want to do, yet I use a match. 

It's never been an issue for me in the past because I usually play easier survival modes, yet on interloper every match counts. 

What do others think? 

Anyway that's my suggestion. I love the new DLC and have so far had hours of fun. Keep up the great work 😊 @Admin

This is very reasonable. I play on xbox so the controlls are a bit diffrent but i hate it when i want to chain light a torch and misclick it by an inch and use a match instead. 

Also there is a bug on xbox : When i have both the match and firestarter the menu pops up which one to choose and whatever choice i make the process starts and ends immediatly with no fire and match or item stat is decreased. 

Dont worry about the matches on loper tho. You will have more than enough. I have hundreds of them on my loper chars. Now they spawn via beachcombing as well so you will never ever run out. 

[TwoFatCatz]

@James Hickok I’m going to head to DP to do my next forge. Since my clothing issue is sorted now. But first I’m heading to the summit for the matches and firestriker. Hopefully I get matches beach combing at DP, I’ve heard it rare though, is it?
Man that must frustrating on xbox. Have you reported a ticket? Or is it a known bug. It just frustrates me sometimes when the whole match thing happens. It never happens in stressful situations either, because usually I want to use a match then.

@Serenity I’m yet to get the distress pistol on this interloper run. I’ve never been surprised by a wolf in interloper either, however sometimes you can’t see them . So when one notices you, you just walk away or sprint?  Because I’ve been able to do this however most of the time that can really be annoying as usually I need to go that direction. I’m keen to stay out of as many wolf struggles as possible. I’ve been in a couple on this run and hit them with my hammer before I had my tools. But I try to never get into a struggle, hence why I use the torch method it’s free when taking them from your fires when you are done cooking or whatever and works effectively. 
 

I would just like the whole matches thing to be a bit more user friendly. Come on Hinterland 👍

[conanjaguar]

This is the most annoying thing in the game .

It seems like it would be a fairly simple thing to change… I imagine the code looks something like this:

Quote

if(Input.GetButtonDown(“Interact”) && TorchEquipped == true)
{ 
LightTorch()
}

Maybe change it to something like this:

Quote

if(Input.GetButton(“Interact”) && SafetyCatch => 1f && TorchEquipped == true)
{ 
LightTorch()
}
 

With SafetyCatch as a float variable for the time to that the key down must be held down to light the torch, in this case, one full second.

[ManicManiac]

@TwoFatCatz

I've discussed this more than a few times in the past along with a few other similar type situations... there a few relatively easy solutions that we all have access to right now.  No added features or safety nets needed.

On 4/14/2023 at 9:06 AM, ManicManiac said:

Quote

"it is so easy to discharge the handgun accidentally!"

As I see it, this is a game that requires players to pay attention to what they are doing.  It's a game that has real consequences for mistakes (and sometimes just misfortune).  It's a game that (to use Raph's words), "don't want to make a game that's going to hold the player's hand."

And... it's a game that is willing to punish us for our mistakes.  (which I think is what I love about TLD most of all)

If we are careful, and we make sure our reticle "sees" the item we intend to interact with before pressing the button... then we will "accidently" shoot from the hip when we don't mean to.  Alternatively, if we simply exercise a bit of "gun safety" and put the revolver away when we don't intend to use it... then we will never "accidently" shoot from the hip when we don't mean to either.

 

Quote

"Doesn't happen with the rifle, only the pistol"

Because the pistol can be "fired from the hip"
The rifle and distress pistol (flare gun) both require our survivor to aim in before firing.
 

Again, this game rewards careful and deliberate action... and punishes mistakes.  If we pay attention to what we are doing, then those accidents don't really happen.  If we don't run around with an unlit torch in hand... then we'll never accidently waste a match by mis-clicking.  If we keep a fire striker on hand... then that will never happen either, since we get a UI to select ignition source (assuming we already have matches on hand).  As long as we pay attention to what we are doing we will never "accidentally" eat raw meat... from the radial we get a bit of a "handholding" kind of warning in for form of an "ARE YOU SURE???" interrupt.

If we are paying attention, we can sustain a campfire out in the open literally anywhere.  The wind never blows out the fire completely... but rather reduces the fire to about 9 minutes.  So... as long as we nurse a fire one stick at a time and we don't pile on wood when we know it's already windy... then we can keep a fire going under any circumstances (I've done this through blizzard more than once) and for as long as we have sticks on hand.

If we are paying attention, we'd never freeze to death in our sleep (by trying to sleep 10+ hours while out in the open or in an exposed "shelter").  ...all we have to do is pay attention to the temperature and nap in shorter increments. 🤭

  

Edited July 12, 2023 by ManicManiac

[TwoFatCatz]

@ManicManiac So am I understanding this right? You think just put your torch away every time you pick something up and then get it out again? 
because I believe that every time this happens to me I am hovering over the object I want to pick up, yet sometimes I still proceed to light my torch.

I don’t know I just think it needs some adjusting.

[Stuffed Plush Chainsaw]

This "issue" is pretty much as old as the game itself, and since it has come up so many times over the years one can assume that the developers/designers want this mechanic to be in the game. I can imagine this has been a topic in a few team meetings, and I guess the consensus they arrived at every time reflects very much @ManicManiac's standpoint, meaning the designers want mishaps to happen. I generally agree with that point of view as mistakes made should be punished accordingly to entice care and mindfulness, while rewarding those that practice it, and this way the game does an overall great job of making your actions - or your mistakes - matter.

That being said ..... (and a similar point as been made before, too)

I get accidentally firing a weapon. I get accidentally "throwing" a torch or a stone to some degree as it might represent dropping them. I get a lot of unintended interactions in the game that one can make and thoroughly regret. I do. But what I don't get is taking a big bite out of raw meat by accident - and this was patched out of the game right after Vigilant Flame hit, and rightly so, because a simple misclick could cripple you (insta-parasites from raw predator meat). And what I also do not get is grabbing my pack of matches, opening it, lighting a match and then holding it to a torch by accident.

If @TwoFatCatz's suggestion was being implemented I would get that, sure, the action would still accidentally "happen", but there would be no punishment tied to it. And considering matches are finite and on Interloper pretty rare the ratio between "mishap" and "punishment" feels unbalanced. But that's just my 2 euro-cents.

How do I circumvent this issue? Raid the Summit as early as possible, get the firestriker, and keep it with me at all times so I get the dialogue that actually asks me what I would like to do. And since as stated above the designers apparently have no intention of "fixing" what they apparently do not consider an issue .... this is much more practical than writing multi-paragraph contributions to a topic settled ages ago as I do. 🤔😅

Edited July 12, 2023 by Stuffed Plush Chainsaw

[TwoFatCatz]

@Stuffed Plush Chainsaw I see both your points and thank you for them.

However if enough people want change the majority should be heard. So speak up fellow survivors.

It’s something very simple to change and in some cases would be the difference between life and death in interloper. For example the first time I ever tried interloper I had a misclick while doing something in PV and it used my very last match. Death followed a couple of days later 😅. It was very early game and I was learning, so no judgment survivors 🤣

Thank you everyone for your thoughtful comments , ideas and suggestions 👍

 

 

 

[Serenity]

17 hours ago, TwoFatCatz said:

Because I’ve been able to do this however most of the time that can really be annoying as usually I need to go that direction.

Yeah, and that's part of the game. Things don't always go as you want. You may have take a small detour or try to lose the wolf in the terrain. Maybe go up some rock and jump down the other side where the wolf can't follow you. Or just keep walking and ignore the creepy growling. Personally I find it a lot more interesting than just carrying a torch everywhere. And unless you're in a tight canyon or something similar it's not necessarily an issue. You can really get pretty close to wolves before they attack.

[ManicManiac]

 @TwoFatCatz
Please know that what I'm writing now is mostly just for clarification.
I don't mean any hurt feelings, but you seem to have either not really read my previous responses or intentionally cherry picking and disregarding the rest.

Now, I'm merely making counterpoints to your response to my offer of how you could solve your problem with making mistakes in the form of misclicks.
Please know that just because I don't agree with your assertions doesn't mean I'm attacking you personally... I'm not.  I am however trying to further explain my point of view.

 

16 hours ago, TwoFatCatz said:

So am I understanding this right?  You think just put your torch away every time you pick something up and then get it out again?

No.  You seem to have just jumped to a conclusion, rather than really reading what I was trying to convey. 🤭
What I have suggested... is that I don't think it's Hinterland's job to save us from our mistakes... nor is the onus on them to change the game because a player makes mistakes.

The answer (as I said before... but I will try to further clarify) is what we have a few different ways we can mitigate and avoid wasting matches by way of a misclick.

• First... We can just learn to mitigate the risk of misclicks.  If we are careful, and we make sure our reticle "sees" the item we intend to interact with before pressing the button, then misclicks simply don't happen.  If it's a misclick from player panic... well that's another player problem that has so many other potential components that I'm not going to comment on... so that's why I've pointed out there are yet other ways to mitigate this.
   
• Second... maybe don't run around holding an unlit torch.  Honesty I can't think of any reason to really do this.  If we are paying attention to our surroundings, we can easily avoid getting ambushed by hostile wildlife.  Also, using the radial menu it's fairly quick to get an unlit torch in hand when we need it.  It's kind of like those folks who get upset because they misfire the revolver because they want to try opening doors or picking up things on the ground while holding a revolver in their hand... the simplest answer is "don't do that and that won't happen."
   
• Third...  and perhaps even easier if the player doesn't want to change their behavior and still mitigate the "issue."  Very simply, if we have a Fire Striker and Matches in our inventory, then every time we click with an unlit torch, we get taken to an ignition source selections screen.  Here we then select what whether we want to use a match or the striker; we could also just cancel the action without wasting anything.  If we do this, then wasting matches via misclick just can't even happen anymore.  ...and it's already available to us.  No changes needed.   

 

13 hours ago, TwoFatCatz said:

For example the first time I ever tried interloper I had a misclick while doing something in PV and it used my very last match.

I believe the game should punish mistakes... it's kind of the point.
I think it's up to us make careful and deliberate action.  If we make a mistake, then we should have to live with the consequences... even if that mistake ends up killing our survivor.  As I've said many times before:

On 12/14/2020 at 9:22 AM, ManicManiac said:

My opinion...  that is to say, I think:
This is a game that requires players to pay attention to what they are doing.
It's a game that has real consequences for mistakes (and sometimes just misfortune).
It's a game that was (to use Raph's words), "we don't want to make a game that's going to hold the player's hand."

These are all things that (for me) make it the best game I consistently play (even after 6 years, I still play almost daily).
That the game is willing to punish mistakes, gives the player a big incentive to always pay attention.

On 9/4/2020 at 12:53 PM, ManicManiac said:

I still don't think player behavior (or in this case player mistakes) should have to be fixed  by a developer.  I'd say this is a player issue, and perhaps the player ought to be paying more attention.

 

Now moving on to what you said (and implied) in the next post after responding to mine:

13 hours ago, TwoFatCatz said:

the majority should be heard.  So speak up fellow survivors.

The next few questions could be read in a snarky tone of voice, but I really am asking in earnest. 
What data do you have that indicates you are in "the majority"?  
Do you personally know the opinions of every player?
How did you acquire that knowledge?
Are you just assuming your opinion aligns with "the majority" and just kind of speaking on "everyone's" behalf because of your assumption?

In my case, I'm a fellow survivor speaking up... and I don't happen to agree with your point of view.

Frankly, I think folks really ought to speak for themselves rather than trying to speak for entire groups of people.
I don't think it's right for any one person, especially in such a distributed group, to that they somehow speak on behalf for others.
Personally, I think that's just bad form.

Again, to be clear... 
If we don't agree, that's okay.   
I'm not going be drawn into an argument, I've said my peace and I stand by it.
Also just because we may not agree doesn't mean I'm attacking you personally... because I'm not.
You've stated your point of view and I am simply stating mine... there is nothing at all meant personally.

This kind of stuff comes up all the time.  The search function is full of these kinds of discussions.  Here's a little more of what I've discussed in the past. 

On 12/14/2020 at 9:22 AM, ManicManiac said:

This kind of thing has been discussed quite a bit in the past (I'll echo some of my previous posts):
"I can see what you mean.  While I thoughtfully nod and say, "yeah, that's true..."  I'm still just not a fan of "bail out" mechanics.

I tend not to mention it until I see posts about wanting to have more "safety nets" added to the game to save a player from their mistakes.  This is when I start discussing about how for a game that (I feel) was fundamentally build on not holding the player's hand to start implementing this kind of hand holding; I think undermines the rest of the experience that the team has built. 

I only talk about it because I know this could easily be a slippery slope.  [text removed for brevity]  I would just hate for that to happen, when the simpler solution would be for the players to pay more attention."

Also:

On 2/17/2020 at 1:49 PM, ManicManiac said:

we should accept the consequences of our actions.  I think the better solution is for a player to pay more attention to what they are doing.  Sure, that takes time and practice, but I think that's better than asking a developer to add "safety net" mechanics.  Yes, sometimes things can go wrong through no fault of one's own... but at the same time I'd say, "That's life sometimes." 

One of the things I respect about this game, is that sometimes bad things happen... sometimes it's our fault, sometimes it's not... but either way we have to deal with it.  The game's not going to rescue us.

On 4/9/2020 at 5:50 PM, ManicManiac said:

I would not be in favor of something like this at all.  I've never liked the idea of adding more player "safety nets" to this game... I think the last thing the game needs more hand holding mechanics.  I think part of what I like so much about this game is that it's not afraid to make us have to deal with the consequences of our actions... on in this case, inaction.

On 9/11/2019 at 2:38 PM, ManicManiac said:

To me, it's a lot like all those folks who want the game to wake them up if they did something foolish that would cause them to die in their sleep.  I think the last thing this game needs are safety nets that serve only to save players from themselves.  Like wise, making it so it's not so important to worry about if your fire goes out because, "eh, I'll be warm enough..." feels cheap and easy.  That's not what I think we need in this game.  If I need fire, and I don't plan well enough ahead... then when I freeze to death, it's my own fault and it's a fair death.

On 11/22/2019 at 11:03 AM, ManicManiac said:

I don't want things in the game that act as safety nets or hand-holding measures that would seem to exist just for the sake of saving the player from themselves (shielding a player against the consequences of their own bad decisions or foolish actions).

 

 

Edited July 13, 2023 by ManicManiac

[xanna]

29 minutes ago, ManicManiac said:

Very simply, if we have a Fire Striker and Matches in our inventory, then every time we click with an unlit torch, we get taken to an ignition source selections screen. 

Even having Wood Matches and Cardboard Matches gives the menu, right?

[ManicManiac]

4 minutes ago, xanna said:

Even having Wood Matches and Cardboard Matches gives the menu, right?

From my experience... the game considers wood matches and carboard matches as just "Matches"
For the selection choice, we have to have "different' ignition sources... which is why I recommend matches and a striker.
I know for sure that triggers the ignition selection to appear (also giving us the option to cancel and save us from a misclick).

This is why I always carry a striker... even though I never use it.  

Also of note... since we can't use a mag-lense to light a torch, the mag-lense doesn't count as an ignition source for these purposes either.
I think that just leaves matches and a striker the working combination.

 

Edited July 13, 2023 by ManicManiac

[xanna]

Interesting! I know that when you *do* get the menu, Wood and Cardboard are selected separately, but perhaps you only get the menu if the Firestriker is also in the mix. A thousand-odd hours in this game and there's stuff I still just haven't noticed! 

[ManicManiac]

4 minutes ago, xanna said:

Interesting! I know that when you *do* get the menu, Wood and Cardboard are selected separately

Yes... they are separated on the menu itself.  But I do remember being surprised in the past when I was experimenting, that when I dropped the striker (with both wood and cardboard matches in the inventory) that is just automatically selected a one of the matches (I forget which it prioritized) rather than giving me the selection option.

To be fair, if that has changed recently... I wouldn't know... I've not done the science on that specific mechanic recently.

[Leeanda]

1 minute ago, ManicManiac said:

Yes... they are separated on the menu itself.  But I do remember being surprised in the past when I was experimenting, that when I dropped the striker (with both wood and cardboard matches in the inventory) that is just automatically selected a one of the matches (I forget which it prioritized) rather than giving me the selection option.

To be fair, if that has changed recently... I wouldn't know... I've not done the science on that specific mechanic recently.

You still only get either the striker or just matches.. no other choice.

[ManicManiac]

@Leeanda
Hmm... I'll go back and check again.  Normally I only have carboard matches and striker in my inventory at one given time.
I'll have to go back and try carboard, wooden, and striker... 

perhaps it's changed then?  If it really is a platform difference, then it should be reported to Hinterland can bring all versions into parity.
I don't know when I'll get a chance for another session... but when I do, I will test the combinations again.

Edited July 13, 2023 by ManicManiac

[xanna]

6 minutes ago, ManicManiac said:

To be fair, if that has changed recently... I wouldn't know... I've not done the science on that specific mechanic recently.

Well I've done no science on this ever, so I'm very happy to believe you! I'll pay attention next time I'm playing.

[Leeanda]

2 minutes ago, ManicManiac said:

@Leeanda
Hmm... I'll go back and check again.  Normally I only have carboard matches and striker in my inventory at one given time.
I'll have to go back and try carboard, wooden, and striker... 

perhaps it's changed then?  If it really is a platform difference, then it should be reported to Hinterland can bring all versions into parity.
I don't know when I'll get a chance for another session... but when I do, I will test the combinations again.

I had all three when I was in ash canyon,(couldn't leave all those boxes floating  on the rope bridge lol) and lighting the torches in the caves I only had the choice of just two... Seems matches are just matches..  it's always been like that for me.