Please let us repair bows I am begging you

[Kitsune_Wizard]

>find new bow
>excited to pick it up
>"Yes, it looks manufactured!!"
>can't repair it
>immediately drop it out of annoyance
>literally not even worth lugging back to base, already over encumbered as is.

Please. Make the unique bows worth getting. Please let us repair them. Please.

[ManicManiac]

@Kitsune_Wizard

I understand what you're asking and why... but as I read through it, these were all choices you made.
You didn't have to travel so encumbered.
You could still value the bow for what it is and make use of it for as long as you can (later of course having to substitute for a craftable one), and you'd have likely come out very much ahead (in terms of utility).
Instead, you seemed to judge it worthless and to leave it behind just because it's not a "forever tool."

That seems like a bit of a misassessment, from my point of view.

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not criticizing your choices or point of view.
We each can of course use (or not use) our limited resources however we like.

However, I'd posit that each use of that bow becomes more valuable.
While it grants a bit of advantage, we can't mend it... so we then have to be more careful and deliberate about how and when it's most beneficial to use it over other options.  Frankly, I prefer it this way.

Again, I'm not criticizing your choices, opinion, or point of view... I'm just offering a different perspective.
If we don't agree... that's okay.
I have no intention of arguing about it.
I've said my peace, and I stand by it.

Edited July 2, 2023 by ManicManiac
edited for clarity

[Kitsune_Wizard]

apply the same reasoning to the crampons which were originally unrepairable and now they are and they're so much better. Simple as.

[ManicManiac]

@Kitsune_Wizard

But I do apply the same reasoning to the crampons.  I very much preferred them before.
Now, they just seem disposable... trivial.
Now we can just wear them around for no reason with impunity... because they're not a precious rarity any more... to my mind they've lost so much of their former value. 

But, as always... I choose to accept and respect Hinterland's decisions.
I don't ask them to change something just because I don't care for it.  I just accept it and adapt. 🤭

Edited July 2, 2023 by ManicManiac

[Leeanda]

As a compromise, what if say when a bow reaches 30% condition there's a 50/50 chance of it breaking. And the same for it being repairable.. purely based on rng  it leaves you with the choice of either never using it again or taking the risk.   Or it varies which part will break. If it's the string ,then it can be fixed,if not then it's lost.

No I haven't completely figured out the ins and outs of it all but I'm an idiot .😁

 

Edited July 2, 2023 by Leeanda

[Asinine]

My thoughts on repairing bows: if you had the tools that are available in-game, it's almost a miracle you can make a bow of that stature to start with. That being said, the basic ones are a stick you dried and bent and strung... when it starts degrading, exactly how would you go about repairing it? It's not like you can staple it back (also, no staples :), or even really mend it. Maybe wrap some tight strings if it's cracking and hope it doesn't give out? Otherwise, I honestly can't see a justification for repairing that type of bow (homemade recurve). I see even less possibilities for a fancier bow.

I mean, they're under stress when strung, and it takes a severe act to repair it once it's broken. Even maintaining (perhaps oiling/treating the wood?) would be minimal vs the actual use. If they're made of fiberglass, then even more nope. If anything, maybe allow players to unstring them and have them degrade based on time they are strung? Though that would introduce a whole new mechanic, so probably not...

Edited July 2, 2023 by Asinine

[LunarLime]

I think instead, once you find a bow variant, you unlock the crafting recipe to make duplicates for it.

Kind of like how you unlock craft-able noise makers when you find one.

Edit: As a way to balance this in a way so that it wouldn't make bow variants just a direct upgrade with little cost, maybe have it so they have to be created at milling machine during an aurora.

Edited July 2, 2023 by LunarLime

[sarudak]

I don't understand this reasoning. How is something "worthless" because it's not repairable? Is finding food worthless because you can only eat it once? Are matches and firestrikers worthless because they are consumed over time? Did you have a crafted bow (that is also unrepairable), if so why not drop that and take the better bow? I find it inconceivable that everything in your inventory was of more value than a advanced bow variant.

[ajb1978]

I personally have no problem with disposable resources, provided they are renewable. Bows included. I'm fine not being able to repair bows, because I can always make another. And even now, on what is my longest running save of all time, I can still go to a coastal region and find some maple saplings to build a new bow. Even though all the actual saplings in the world have long since been harvested.

So that's sort of my take on bow variants. If we can't repair them, ok, just let us use it as a template to build our own. I'll use it until it breaks, if I know I can make another. If it's irreplaceable though, it's a show piece and nothing more. And this isn't exactly a game where collecting trophies is supposed to be at the forefront.

[sarudak]

Why is it a showpiece? Who are you showing it to? Why not just use it and use it up? What are you losing exactly?

[Semple Fi]

On 7/1/2023 at 9:53 PM, Kitsune_Wizard said:

>find new bow
>excited to pick it up
>"Yes, it looks manufactured!!"
>can't repair it
>immediately drop it out of annoyance
>literally not even worth lugging back to base, already over encumbered as is.

Please. Make the unique bows worth getting. Please let us repair them. Please.

I haven’t found this variant yet, how long does it last with regular use?

a composite bow should last over a decade with proper care… perhaps just a very low degradation rate would be appropriate?

[ajb1978]

4 hours ago, sarudak said:

Why is it a showpiece? Who are you showing it to? Why not just use it and use it up? What are you losing exactly?

Oh I hear ya, and I'm right with ya. But it doesn't change the fact that us potion-hoarders are inherently getting the shaft by never using non-renewable items.

Frankly I consider it a form of OCD. A very mild one, but the facts are the same--hoarding nonrenewable video game items is a real thing that I've noticed not only in myself, but in many many others. Make something renewable, even if you never actually use a single one up, and people will use it.

[ajb1978]

2 hours ago, Semple Fi said:

I haven’t found this variant yet, how long does it last with regular use?

a composite bow should last over a decade with proper care… perhaps just a very low degradation rate would be appropriate?

Degrades slower, but still degrades. I actively kill every predator I find to make my current region safer, i.e. deliberately depopulating the carnivores. And at my current rate, perhaps a month maybe two?

Enough that I don't want to use it, because I'm already quite comfortable with the regular Survival Bow which I can replenish easily with a couple weeks' time in any coastal region.

[hozz1235]

On 7/7/2023 at 4:24 PM, sarudak said:

Why is it a showpiece? Who are you showing it to? Why not just use it and use it up? What are you losing exactly?

I guess I'm holding out, hoping it will be "renewable/repairable" at some point so I don't want to destroy that unique item.  Also, yeah, it's a little better than the standard bow, but not such a game-changer to outweigh my first sentence.  So, it's up on the mantle for me to look at until that time.

[sarudak]

I really hope they don't water down game mechanics just because some people are hoarders and can stand non-renewable resources. Having industrial made goods deplete over time and having to rely on less effective homemade items is part of the appeal. 

[Leeanda]

Nothing wrong with hoarding.  My base in pv farm is stuffed completely downstairs..  I have all the rifle variants and two of the revolvers which I doubt will ever get used .  They're there just as an option same as bottles of antiseptic are.  

If I had any if the bows they'd be in the cupboards too ,. But I also have four bows I've made.

There's no right or wrong way to play this game and it's ultimately htls decision and I'll support them whatever they decide.

[Kitsune_Wizard]

On 7/5/2023 at 12:22 PM, sarudak said:

I don't understand this reasoning. How is something "worthless" because it's not repairable? Is finding food worthless because you can only eat it once? Are matches and firestrikers worthless because they are consumed over time? Did you have a crafted bow (that is also unrepairable), if so why not drop that and take the better bow? I find it inconceivable that everything in your inventory was of more value than a advanced bow variant.

food is meant to be eaten. You can find more food by hunting. You can start fires with a magnifying glass without matches. Bad comparison. I can make more crafted bows by crafting them and they're exactly as useful as the unique version because while they can't be repaired they can be replaced, uniques cannot, so I will never use them.

I'd be fine with having to take it to the gunsmith milling machine to fix it. 

see: forester's revolver, vaughn's rifle. Both of these are much more useful to me because when I use it up I don't feel like I'm wasting a precious resource because I can just repair them and refill their ammo in the milling machine. 

Letting us repair bows would not alter the difficulty (for me, on stalker) any, it'd just give me the option to let me use the uniques knowing it's more than just a paperweight. Again, because gunsmithing exists, by the time I've cleaned through the entire map I've gotten a hold of nearly 200 revolver and 100 rifle casings and I can basically infinitely refill them. I don't need an easier game I need a reason to use the unique bow. When it's unrepairable I literally cannot convince myself to go out of my way to pick this thing up knowing I will only be using it for a little while because it will break.

Love my unique rifle and revolver collection. It's nice to have something I can rely on, and repair. I wish the unique bows were this useful is all.

I'd also be fine with unlocking a blueprint to craft them ourselves but I think it'd just make more sense to fix them in a milling machine, honestly. A

[Kitsune_Wizard]

23 hours ago, sarudak said:

I really hope they don't water down game mechanics just because some people are hoarders and can stand non-renewable resources. Having industrial made goods deplete over time and having to rely on less effective homemade items is part of the appeal. 

again, you can repair and replace guns and ammo, but not bows. That's silly.

[Kitsune_Wizard]

On 7/2/2023 at 12:46 AM, ManicManiac said:

@Kitsune_Wizard

But I do apply the same reasoning to the crampons.  I very much preferred them before.
Now, they just seem disposable... trivial.
Now we can just wear them around for no reason with impunity... because they're not a precious rarity any more... to my mind they've lost so much of their former value. 

But, as always... I choose to accept and respect Hinterland's decisions.
I don't ask them to change something just because I don't care for it.  I just accept it and adapt. 🤭

When crampons first came out I never wore them because I didn't want them to break in a wolf struggle. I understand your point of view but I disagree entirely, they've gained value to me because they're so much more actively useful and not a resource to be hoarded. 

[Stuffed Plush Chainsaw]

It's a psychological thing. It's the same reason I buried a lot of lopers that proudly never used a stim. With this it's even worse because you really have the one and you can't ever "replace" it. @ajb1978's suggestion to use variants as templates to craft replacements is a good one, and I wholeheartedly second it.

[conanjaguar]

I’d have to agree with @Asinine, in real life there is no way to actually “repair” a bow, unless it’s the string that has snapped.

I wouldn’t mind having the bows able to be unstrung, reducing decay rate but they can’t be used until they’re restrung (10 minutes?).

Or maybe to balance it, drastically reduce the number of maple saplings and/or make them grow over time into full-sized trees?

Or maybe just nerf the standard bow’s decay rate and/or damage to make the variants that much more desirable, a find worth dancing around about.

Or maybe add special arrows that need the variant bows to be used to best effect.

Or… I think you get the picture, there are a whole lot of ways this could work…

[ajb1978]

2 hours ago, conanjaguar said:

I’d have to agree with @Asinine, in real life there is no way to actually “repair” a bow, unless it’s the string that has snapped.

I wouldn’t mind having the bows able to be unstrung, reducing decay rate but they can’t be used until they’re restrung (10 minutes?).

Or maybe to balance it, drastically reduce the number of maple saplings and/or make them grow over time into full-sized trees?

Or maybe just nerf the standard bow’s decay rate and/or damage to make the variants that much more desirable, a find worth dancing around about.

Or maybe add special arrows that need the variant bows to be used to best effect.

Or… I think you get the picture, there are a whole lot of ways this could work…

Well bows only decay with use so unstringing wouldn't help there, as it'd still decay when you took the shot. But yeah, any time this comes up my go-to suggestion is to just have them take longer and require additional materials. Like cured leather for an improved grip, or scrap metal for special fittings.

Honestly, I would prefer to find a crafting recipe for new items, rather than simply find the item. Like a research book that unlocks a recipe after reading. Then I can make as many as I want. Or do the Skyrim approach where you have to dismantle an item to learn how to build one. So you can choose to use it right away, and when you get back to your main base take it apart and learn how to build your own. And having to use multiple crafting stations over the course of the project would keep it interesting. Forge the rough parts, refine them at a milling machine, assemble them at a workbench.

[Smellyfries]

There's also the possibility of the trader potentially selling the different bow variants. Perhaps by trading the unique bow to the trader, they'll be willing to make and trade new bows to you after taking some time to "study" it. They'd likely be expensive, considering the possibility that they're basically making a bow that they're not getting any use out of, but I can see the trader being a potentially good source of non-renewable resources, especially cooking ingredients like potatoes and carrots.

[Ape88]

On 7/7/2023 at 6:37 PM, Semple Fi said:

I haven’t found this variant yet, how long does it last with regular use?

a composite bow should last over a decade with proper care… perhaps just a very low degradation rate would be appropriate?

In freezing conditions?

[not___fazed]

On 11/14/2023 at 1:13 PM, Ape88 said:

In freezing conditions?

Absolutely. Glass composite is not affected by extreme cold or extreme heat. It can be damaged by repeatedly heating and cooling, but not really at the temperatures present in TLD. I don't personally think that's too relevant, since TLD isn't attempting to simulate reality.