Put Guns on Interloper

[whirls]

Hey fellows 🙂

 

short: guns, bullets, milling machines, ... are a big content of the game, which interloper misses. At least bullets could be very very rare and guns on very bad state, so without milling machines, you might find 1, 2 bullets per map. This would give Interloper much more content and still it would be hard. After you pass 100 days its anyway become alot easier to survive and can become booring. Some ppl even decide to go to next level "Outerloper" ^^

[I_eat_only_wolf_meat]

I do kind of miss making runs to the milling machines.  What you're suggesting, though, is really only useful for decorating your base.  Guns are not sufficiently powerful compared to the bow,  and they're so heavy that it would really just be an addon for atmosphere.

I have a revolver in in my interloper run right now along with 20-something rounds of .38 special, and it just sits on a shelf.

[ManicManiac]

@whirls

I think this kind of defeats much of the purpose of Interloper to begin with.  I spoke briefly about it before:

On 4/11/2023 at 11:09 AM, ManicManiac said:

all things considered; I'd say that Interloper was never "feature complete" (in terms of game content).  I might remind folks that rifles, revolvers, hunting knives, hatchets, top tier "manufactured" clothing items (Expedition Parka and so on...), and the majority of TWM cargo containers were always absent from Interloper.

With the idea presumably being, that not only did we face harsher weather, more deadly predators, and fewer resources in the world... that the "best" clothing and equipment were also nowhere to be found.

  
For those who do want a "Gun-loper" experience... I think it's easy enough for folks to use the available custom settings to do so.

[Glacia]

I have suggested a similar feature in the past, being able to find ruined weapons and craft your own bullets with the ammunition workbench. I don't think it's bad, i think most players are just gonna ignore the feature because of the long and hard work involved.

Surely riffles have different features than the bows, like being safer and effective for certain hunt scenarios, but most players already have mastered the bow so im not sure..

[ManicManiac]

To be clear... I don't think it's necessarily a bad idea either; though I do think it kind of undermines the idea of Interloper a bit.

[whirls]

53 minutes ago, ManicManiac said:

"Gun-loper" experience

I see. thats a good hint with custom settings. Ill look into it

[whirls]

54 minutes ago, Glacia said:

find ruined weapons and craft your own bullets with the ammunition workbench

yes, thats what I ve in mind. Some ppl just draw and fill up the map, when they "beat" their run already and becomes boring. I mean with the same logic, Hinterland could ve also removed the Backpack in Ash Canyon for Interloper .... I believe Interloper should contain all game content, but much much more difficult.

 

For example the mod

 

https://github.com/DigitalzombieTLD/CanneryManufacturingDLC/

 

enriches the game content and let the hunting knife come back into the game (but much more difficult).

[ManicManiac]

@whirls

There's a lot of tweaks and changes we have control over.
several out there have even published custom codes that anyone could use if you find a set of "gun-loper" settings that you like.

I'm glad to help.  I hope you find the experience you're looking for.  Custom settings will indeed get you there.

 

Edited May 2, 2023 by ManicManiac

[UpUpAway95]

I agree with Manic, adding guns to interloper would defeat the purpose of it existing and I don't think a whole slug of new mechanics should be introduced just to facilitate adding guns to a standard difficulty settings that was designed specifically to be harsher BECAUSE content like rifles and high-end clothing were eliminated from the low baseline resources setting.  Why not instead just eliminate Interloper entirely and work on increasing the difficulty of Stalker by reducing the amount of loot to be found at that difficulty level?

If the new schtick regarding interloper is that all content should be available, then why is the request being limited to the guns?  Hatchets and knives are every bit as much "content" as guns; particularly with new hatchet variants being anticipated.  Adding those to Loper would, naturally, make forging a completely optional activity and change a major play characteristic of the playstyle.  Stalker already has all content available... so, again, why not just eliminate Loper, and toughen up stalker by lowering the amount of loot available instead of burdening HL with devising a whole bunch of "manufacturing" mechanics to make the game superficially harder for Loper players.

Edited May 2, 2023 by UpUpAway95

[Dr. S.]

I don’t see how having guns available (with rare, hard to acquire ammunition) undermines interloper any more than having the flare gun available does. Which, of course it (always?) has been. Arguably, the flare gun is more powerful too. 
 

Whether it would be interesting is a different matter, of course. 

[I_eat_only_wolf_meat]

1 hour ago, UpUpAway95 said:

Adding those to Loper would, naturally, make forging a completely optional activity and change a major play characteristic of the playstyle.

Interestingly, the hunting knife is already in interloper.  Very rare, but it's out there.  Out of all the "contraband" items Hinterland added, it makes the most impact.

[UpUpAway95]

Just now, I_eat_only_wolf_meat said:

Interestingly, the hunting knife is already in interloper.  Very rare, but it's out there.  Out of all the "contraband" items Hinterland added, it makes the most impact.

Still... my point is that if all the content is to be available in loper, then it makes it so similar to stalker that's it's not worth having both standard difficulties.  The tangible gameplay differences between stalker and loper now rest in the fact that not all items are available in loper; whereas they are in stalker.  The biggest "complaint" that Lopers make about stalker (i.e. when they change the baseline resources from low to medium in custom) is that loot, in general, becomes too available.  It's far less of a hassle for HL to just eliminate Loper and toughen up stalker by reducing loot volumes... i.e. make everything rarer.  There is nothing written in stone that says any game has to have more than 3 standard difficulty levels.  Heck, I wouldn't even care if the "surviving" difficulty is called loper.  My point is that it is essentially being made to be almost exactly like stalker anyways... so why not eliminate one or the other entirely as save HL some work going forward (so, you know, they could concentrate of making the overall game more interesting at ALL difficulty levels).

[whirls]

As I see it and understand it now is, that HL community and HL itself has moved already to this position while I experiencing in many other games, that all the hardest difficulties doesn't mean to remove stuff. So I can accept it and give the custom settings a try. It also reminds me, that HL community kind of uses the time capsule to play an older version of the games, which shows that ppl are fine with less content.

[LunarLime]

I agree that having firearms in Interloper would ruin the difficulty, since the lack of guns is what REALLY makes it different from Stalker.

Maybe instead that could add a crossbow or something, that would be sort of a mix between the rifle and bow.

1.  Craftable (Maybe refined wood, scrap metal, and cured guts)
2. Repairable
3. Ammo could be bolts, which would be craftable and a somewhat renewable source of ammo
4. Deal as much initial damage as a bow, but same bleeding of a rifle. So it would be fairly weak
5. About as easy to use as the rifle, but less range, and it's projectile based, not hitscan.

I think this might be okay, as it would give one more option for hunting in Interloper.

 

[UpUpAway95]

17 minutes ago, LunarLime said:

I agree that having firearms in Interloper would ruin the difficulty, since the lack of guns is what REALLY makes it different from Stalker.

Maybe instead that could add a crossbow or something, that would be sort of a mix between the rifle and bow.

1.  Craftable (Maybe refined wood, scrap metal, and cured guts)
2. Repairable
3. Ammo could be bolts, which would be craftable and a somewhat renewable source of ammo
4. Deal as much initial damage as a bow, but same bleeding of a rifle. So it would be fairly weak
5. About as easy to use as the rifle, but less range, and it's projectile based, not hitscan.

I think this might be okay, as it would give one more option for hunting in Interloper.

 

However, it sounds like you're now proposing "exclusive" content for interloper only... which is as "unfair" as the addition of content that was not included in Interloper.  Content designed to expressly and only be useful in Interloper doesn't make it a "good" mechanic.  From another poster above:

Quote

I have suggested a similar feature in the past, being able to find ruined weapons and craft your own bullets with the ammunition workbench, I don't think it's bad, i think most players are just gonna ignore the feature because of the long and hard work involved.

Precisely because it would be ignored by most players, I DO think it is a bad mechanic... i.e. not worth HL's time in developing it when they could be developing the idea (or another idea) in a manner that would make the game more interesting to the majority of players and be used ultimately by the majority of players... instead of trying to pidgeon-hole the idea into a difficulty that was designed around surviving on the barest minimum and on doing without stuff; and in the process, making it so cumbersome that "most players are just gonna ignore the feature."

[LunarLime]

1 hour ago, UpUpAway95 said:

However, it sounds like you're now proposing "exclusive" content for interloper only... which is as "unfair" as the addition of content that was not included in Interloper.  Content designed to expressly and only be useful in Interloper doesn't make it a "good" mechanic.  From another poster above:

The crossbow wouldn't be only in Interloper. It would be craftable in all modes.

It would also have some valid use in everything other than Interloper. Since rifles have become more scarce when they did the whole loot table rework, the crossbow could be a step before you get your hands on a rifle.

And even after you get a rifle it could still have it as sort of a "stealth weapon". You shoot one deer, down it, great. Now you can down another deer since you didn't scare it off with a loud gunshot. 

It would also be much lighter than the rifle so you could make the choice of less firepower, but more room to carry things.

 

Edited May 2, 2023 by LunarLime

[UpUpAway95]

2 hours ago, LunarLime said:

The crossbow wouldn't be only in Interloper. It would be craftable in all modes.

It would also have some valid use in everything other than Interloper. Since rifles have become more scarce when they did the whole loot table rework, the crossbow could be a step before you get your hands on a rifle.

And even after you get a rifle it could still have it as sort of a "stealth weapon". You shoot one deer, down it, great. Now you can down another deer since you didn't scare it off with a loud gunshot. 

It would also be much lighter than the rifle so you could make the choice of less firepower, but more room to carry things.

 

OK, better when it's proposed from the POV of something enhancing all difficulties.  My only concern then is that it would come at a further reduction in rifle availability.  Adding in alternative weapons, doesn't do anything for those of us who prefer to use only rifles.

Instead, if we get rid of all the standard difficulties and just go with a custom menu presentation (with suggested templates), the menu could be set up to allow the player to choose which sorts of weapons they would like to use for individual runs with connected sliders such that just selecting one type of weapons would increase the chances of finding that weapon to maximum; whereas selecting 2 would make each of those 2 available at 50% maximum, selecting 3 would make each of those 3 available at 33% maximum, etc.  Then, players could set themselves up with a distress pistol only run where flare shells would be common enough to sustain the entire run (but be more generous at easier loot settings and rarer at hardest loot settings).  Things like saplings could, for example, be set so they don't spawn unless the standard bow setting is selected.  A "variant" toggle (Y/N) could also determine whether the new variants of any weapon type could be found in that particular run.

That way, people who do prefer to use only rifles could set up runs where they could expect to find random rifles with enough ammo to sustain their run (instead of the pet reductions of "rifle spawns" that have occurred multiple times over the last few years; i.e. it seems like every time a new weapons is added, it is the rifle spawns that take the hit as was even outright stated in this most recent update).

[FlamingFuball]

There's a good mod that adresses the firearms issue on interloper without just plain making it stalker difficulty: Cannery Maufacturing. The mod can be set to allow ruined rifles and revolvers to spawn in the world, so you have to not only find the weapons, but repair them at a mill to use them. The objective of the mod was to make firearms a late-game goal and I think it succeeds in doing this pretty well.

[Stranzua]

I just posted a thread about adding a difficulty/custom setting in between Interloper and Stalker. Interloper can stay the way it is but a difficulty right below Interloper would be nice. On interloper you have to know where stuff is and you learn where more stuff is after each playthrough, but how about making loot completely random? I mean COMPLETELY. It's not as empty as Interloper but there is no guaranteed matches or guaranteed spawns of any kind. There's no going online and learning loot tables or streamers telling you where to find everything. It's all random. 

In my opinion, Interloper is a great challenge and an entire experience within itself, but we are technically crashing on an island we know nothing about. Completely randomizing all loot at least keeps that a part of the game to some degree. 

[Luczhang1109]

I think adding variants of rifles, bows and revolvers to the interlopers would be a good idea (even if the ammo is hard to find)

[Admin]

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