Should the Revolver be replaced by a Shotgun?

[Glflegolas]

Hello folks,

This is a topic that's come up many times over the years on the forums -- mainly because revolvers (as with all handguns) are quite difficult to (legally) obtain in Canada. In the near future, it's likely that it will be impossible to obtain any handgun legally in Canada, as per a news release by Justin Trudeau.

To replace the Revolver (which serves a quite useful purpose of deterring wolves and especially timberwolves in-game), we could introduce a Shotgun, and replace all the revolver ammo spawns with shotgun ammo spawns. Just like the revolver, a shotgun doesn't have great range, but it's very powerful at close range -- perfect for stopping a charging wolf. In fact, we could go so far as to introduce two shotguns. The common one would be a double-barrel, spawning on all maps about as frequently as the Hunting Rifle. For more ammo capacity (5 rounds) we could have a pump or lever-action shotgun, but that would only spawn in very few places on Great Bear (Mysterious Signal Fire? Timberwolf Mountain Summit? Blackrock Mine? Hunting Lodge? Homesteader's Respite? Just some ideas).

The news release also stated that long gun magazines with more than 5 rounds will be banned. Given that this is the case, the rifle's ammo capacity could be nerfed to hold only 5 rounds. I don't think this would have much (if any) effect on gameplay, as I don't fire more than two rounds, or maybe three back-to-back under any circumstances when hunting, though I'd be interested in knowing what other players think of this change.

Any thoughts?

[Ghurcb]

Ehh... I don't think that this kind of realism is a good thing. I mean, the world of The Long Dark is already in some sort of alternate history present/near-future, so the current canadian gun laws wouldn't necessarily apply.

Also, players would be VERY mad if Hinterland removed the revolver.

[Leeanda]

I hardly ever use the revolver and I'm fed up of finding the ammo everywhere!!  So I'll say yes please to the shotgun !🤞

[Strelok]

adding > replacing

[Pencil]

I personally use the revolver all the time. I would not want it to be replaced by another gun.

[florpman]

it's an island that's been disconnected from society for years, probably decades. i doubt the game would apply to modern Canadian gun laws. even if that wasn't the case, the game doesn't take place in 2022, because the style hasn't changed to fit the style of other, newer Canadian towns, clothing or food. also, in my region idea i've suggested, i've added a shotgun that spawns like the crampons, and spawns in one location and one location only

[Cr41g]

first of all... handguns are quite prevalent in Canada, and those of us that do have them legally have used them responsibly.. the "new law" does nothing but punish law abiding citizens and will do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, zero, zip, nada to stem crime and violence in Canada. Secondly the new law allows people who currently have handguns... to keep them...  thirdly...if you have one, or ever used one, a shotgun is a messy bit of business and would serve only as a deterrent the same as the current revolver... unless you enjoy spending hours picking shot to try and salvage meat

 

sorry for the rant

[Glflegolas]

Regardless of your views on current Canadian gun politics, @Leeanda has a good point here. Handguns are most often used for self defense against other people, not against wildlife. Given that Great Bear Island's population was well on the decline even before the First Flare, I can't see why the inhabitants would have had masses of handgun ammunition sitting all around their houses. Shotgun shells, on the other hand... sure. Shotguns are excellent for self defense against wildlife, as they have great stopping power, and range is not a concern if a wolf is charging straight at you.

Now, there are some regions where having a revolver does make sense, namely Blackrock. As a career criminal, it wouldn't surprise me at all if Mathis somehow managed to smuggle at least one in from the US before the First Flare, or if some of the guards carried revolvers. The same could maybe be said for the Forest Talkers, though they don't mention being armed with anything other than a flaregun in Story Mode. As for Molly, we know she was an adept archer, so I can't figure out why she'd also have a revolver. Maybe to protect herself from escaped convicts that get too close for her liking, but it seems like a little bit of a stretch when she could just sneak up on them and shoot with her bow.

[peteloud]

A revolver and a shotgun would be used primarily for short range defence from wolves.  The shotgun would probably be more damaging but its fire rate is slower than a revolver, and it is much heavier.  I would probably stick with the revolver to save weight.

[conanjaguar]

I don’t want to see all the revolvers replaced with shotguns. However, I would not mind seeing a break open shotgun in a few locations, like around the farmsteads. These would replace the revolver spawns, and have scarcer ammo.

Also, I have seen metal pipes around the map. We have a gunsmithing skill. We have gunpowder. We even have an igniter in the form of a lantern igniter. We can break the stock off a ruined rifle, and make an impromptu shotgun with all these components. It would be undoubtedly a muzzle-loading, flintlock sort of thing, firing scrap metal or forged bullets. Slow reloading, terrible accuracy, 48H to make, high chance of jam, but the damage would be mega up close. Probably would end a wolf struggle instantly.

[APixelatedLemon]

Thematically yes it would make sense for shotguns to be more accessible than revolvers with Canadian laws stance on them.

However gameplay wise I think it's a poor idea. The main purpose for revolvers in-game is a self defense weapon, and it's very underpowered for actual hunting (aside from rabbits and maybe wolves). A shotgun on the other hand would be a powerful tool for both hunting and self defense, which would cause it too be overpowered.

The only way I could see it being balanced is if using a shotgun for hunting would ruin the carcass in some way, like maybe the hide would get ruined and some of the meat would get too damaged to be edible. If that were the case then MAYBE I could see the shotgun having a place in the game. But I would much rather stick with just having a revolver either way. 

Edited June 2, 2022 by APixelatedLemon

[hozz1235]

I'd vote for introducing shotguns to the game but not replacing the revolver.

[Glflegolas]

@conanjaguar, you idea sounds to me like a blunderbuss. Seems like a good way to give gunpowder some more use in Interloper.

[conanjaguar]

On 6/2/2022 at 12:17 PM, APixelatedLemon said:

The only way I could see it being balanced is if using a shotgun for hunting would ruin the carcass in some way, like maybe the hide would get ruined and some of the meat would get too damaged to be edible. If that were the case then MAYBE I could see the shotgun having a place in the game. But I would much rather stick with just having a revolver either way. 

Ah, I do imagine that a fistful of lead pellets would ruin or at least degrade the hide and meat. Which is why a shotgun would not be, and is not, a hunting weapon, except for waterfowl, which TLD lacks. However, maybe we could shoot crows with it? In the words of Huey, Louie, and Dewey:

”If ya didn’t shoot it, Unca’ Donald, how come there’s buckshot in the stuffin’?”

And see my previous post:

On 6/2/2022 at 10:32 AM, conanjaguar said:

Also, I have seen metal pipes around the map. We have a gunsmithing skill. We have gunpowder. We even have an igniter in the form of a lantern igniter. We can break the stock off a ruined rifle, and make an impromptu shotgun with all these components. It would be undoubtedly a muzzle-loading, flintlock sort of thing, firing scrap metal or forged bullets. Slow reloading, terrible accuracy, 48H to make, high chance of jam, but the damage would be mega up close. Probably would end a wolf struggle instantly.

I have seen all the necessary components, and our characters can already craft ammunition and all other sorts of fancy things. They even know how to work a forge and make hatchets and knives without burning themselves, so it’s not to much of a stretch to imagine that they can strap together a muzzle-loader. 

I am not talking about a pump action, semiautomatic, or automatic shotgun, merely a single-barrel break open style shotgun, maybe not even a 12 gauge, or an impromptu thing.

Quote

@conanjaguar, you idea sounds to me like a blunderbuss. Seems like a good way to give gunpowder some more use in Interloper.

Yes, it would give gunpowder more use. In my opinion, if you can survive on ‘loper for long enough to craft gunpowder and bullets, then you have earned something to make life a little easier. Maybe once I get used to Stalker I will see how many minutes I can survive on that difficulty.

[florpman]

shotgun for hunting crows, but damages meat of normal animals. rifle for hunting bears, moose and deer. revolvers for killing wolves and scaring away bears. flare guns (or distress pistols) for getting rid of timberwolves. stones for stunning rabbits so you can grab and oof them.

Edited June 6, 2022 by florpman

[UpUpAway95]

The primary benefit from the addition of the revolver was to give players who prefer rifles to bows a much lighter option for defence than the rifle... and it became very popular immediately as a result.  Rifle spawns and rifle ammo spawns were decreased as a result to make way for the revolver.  The shotgun would be heavy and, therefore, less practical to just simply carry around everywhere for general defence.  When playing stalker, I seldom carry my rifle unless I'm specifically hunting for bear or moose and prefer to carry a revolver.  Therefore, I'm not in favour of a heavier weapon (like a shotgun) replacing the revolver.  As an addition to the game... OK (but I would likely never bother to carry around myself... and being a shorter range weapon than the rifle would probably never really use it as a result).

ETA:  Even if just added, the shotgun will likely mean that fewer rifles and revolvers and their relative ammos will spawn in the world... just as the addition of the revolver caused HL to reduce rifle and rifle ammo spawns.  To accommodate custom player preferences, I would like to see ammo spawns be regulated in accordance with which guns are turned on and off... That is, if a player currently turns off revolvers and leaves only rifle spawns on, more rifles and ammo should spawn in the world than when both are active.  Similarly, if shotguns are added, I would like the option to turn them off and have rifle and revolver spawns and their respective ammo spawns stay at current levels.  Conversely, a shotgun only run would have a higher rate of shotgun shells spawning than a run which also has rifles and revolvers.  This would help facilitate focused, one-region challenge runs where reloading ammo is not an option except in Blackrock (as a spawn in Bleak Inlet does not give access to the mill).

As was pointed out up thread... the game appears to take place in an alternate history and does not have a futuristic tone at all.  Items in the game clearly reflect items popular in households in the 1960s and GBI appears to have been cut off from the Mainland for quite some time.  I agree then that current changes to Canadian gun laws should have no bearing on what is used in the game and belief the game should maintain a polite distance from IRL politics.  It is just a game after all.

Edited June 6, 2022 by UpUpAway95

[Kranium]

Regarding reflecting firearms reality: I live in rural BC. Pretty much every rural household here has at least a .22 and a shotgun. Most also have a hunting rifle. Handguns are owned by perhaps 30% of the people I know here.

 

Also: shotgun + hacksaw = sawed off shotgun.

 

Info:

Short-barreled, manually operated shotguns (non-semi-automatics) are non-restricted as long as the barrel remains unmodified from the original factory length. There is no legal minimum for shotgun barrels as long as they are not handguns; shotguns with barrels as short as 8.5 inches are available in Canada.

The act of reducing the length of the barrel of a shotgun to less than 457 mm (18 inches) by sawing, cutting, or "otherwise", by anyone other than a recognized gun manufacturer, is prohibited.

 

For example, this is legal & non-restricted in Canada: Sulun Arms ss211 - 12ga, break action, over/under, 4.5lbs and only 23” in overall length

 

[odizzido]

On 5/31/2022 at 9:13 AM, Cr41g said:

first of all... handguns are quite prevalent in Canada, and those of us that do have them legally have used them responsibly.. the "new law" does nothing but punish law abiding citizens and will do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, zero, zip, nada to stem crime and violence in Canada. Secondly the new law allows people who currently have handguns... to keep them...  thirdly...if you have one, or ever used one, a shotgun is a messy bit of business and would serve only as a deterrent the same as the current revolver... unless you enjoy spending hours picking shot to try and salvage meat

 

sorry for the rant

I am not going to spend much time on this since you have to want to look into things but personally I am personally quite happy to give up some neat little tokorev cartridges because having looked into things it's pretty apparent that having more guns increases gun(and overall) violence.

All citizens are law abiding until they're not, and if you sort similar countries(as in canada, US, sweden, switzerland, japan, etc and not a place that is much more lawless) by gun ownership and murder rate you will see an obvious pattern. You can find exceptions like switzerland where they have high gun ownership because of military service but when you notice that they don't have any ammo for their weapons it fits into place.

Anyways if you want you can look into it if you want to be more informed. I will not be looking at this thread again.

[Cr41g]

already plenty informed, research is a thing with me...thanks bud

[conanjaguar]

@Cr41g@odizzido

Remember, gentlemen, this forum is a place for polite discussion and debate, not full-blown arguments. As I love a good debate, I will be reading with interest, so make it good!

[conanjaguar]

On 6/2/2022 at 10:32 AM, conanjaguar said:

I don’t want to see all the revolvers replaced with shotguns. However, I would not mind seeing a break open shotgun in a few locations, like around the farmsteads. These would replace the revolver spawns, and have scarcer ammo.

Also, I have seen metal pipes around the map. We have a gunsmithing skill. We have gunpowder. We even have an igniter in the form of a lantern igniter. We can break the stock off a ruined rifle, and make an impromptu shotgun with all these components. It would be undoubtedly a muzzle-loading, flintlock sort of thing, firing scrap metal or forged bullets. Slow reloading, terrible accuracy, 48H to make, high chance of jam, but the damage would be mega up close. Probably would end a wolf struggle instantly.

I still consider this one of my “pet ideas”.