question Where are all the people from Thomson's Crossing in ep.3?

[Ghurcb]

Here's what I've been wondering about for a while now...

In episode 3 when you enter the Community Hall you see a lot of crash survivors, father Thomas, and... That's it!

Where are all the locals? Is Thomas the only one who survived the First flare?

The first time you talk to him, he says "We gathered people here when the weather started turning bad three... Or was it four days ago? The houses became too cold and it seemed better to bring everyone under one roof. Then yesterday, the crash survivors started showing up."

So... Where is everyone? Did they all die in 2-3 days? That makes NO sence!

And I kinda get it. There should be a reason why Astrid is the one who has to go look for survivors. But there could still be a few locals too old/sick/injured to do this job.

It would be very interesting to see, for example, an old lady knitting in the kitchen, or two covered in bandages guys playing cards in a corner of the stage, or a mother with a little baby. 

 

Something like that.

Edited May 2, 2022 by Ghurcb

[piddy3825]

Good questions

Most of the folks on GBI have already fled the island due to the financial collapse of the world economy.  
Shipping supplies, ie, food, fuel and other consumer goods have been severly restricted by the economic shortages
currently affecting the region and the country.   In addition, you have an aggressive group of "nature preservation" advocates, ie. The Forest Talkers who have also demonstrated their resolve in driving business off the island.  Some of their tatics being questionable at best.   

Seismic disturbances which have affected many parts of the island are also another reason for many folks to have fled the island prior to the event.   Landslides, tunnel collapses and bridge failures have further made living on GBI difficult for many residents, so many folks moved from the area prior to the "event."
Technically, when you find yourself in PV, it's only been a few days since the "event" that caused Will's plane to crash.  The same circumstances brought down the jet aircraft.   The resulting loss of power and instrumentation  due to the geomagnetic flux caused the passenger plane to crash as well.  

Those few folks you find in story mode are the only people who just haven't left the island, yet.   Father Thomas, being the good steward of the church, had elected to stay behind or the church just hadn't gotten around to reassigning him to another parish on the mainland.  Good thing he was there or else all those poor survivors would have certanly perished.  You weren't expecting Molly to be of any help, did you?

[ajb1978]

Game design decision basically. Everyone in the community center is a crash survivor, there are zero townsfolk. That doesn't seem like an oversight to me, it sounds more like the logistics of creating an interior location large enough to house plane crash survivors AND unrelated townsfolk, vs. what's necessary to tell the story, the decision was to keep it simple. Say there's 10 people in Thompson's Crossing, plus the 16 total plane crash survivors, you'd need a MUCH bigger community center. That's extra design work for both the interior space as well as the outdoor area for the town. It's just sort of implied that they're there "off camera".

Same reason why our survivors can last for months and we never once see them go poop.

[APixelatedLemon]

It's just a game design thing. 

Not only would you need to have a interior to house both the plane crash survivor, AND the remaining Thomsosn's Crossing residents. But you also have to give the Thomsosn's Crossing residents a purpose, weather it be to give some dialogue, or a side quest attached to them, or whatever. Also it wouldn't really make much sense to have all of the town residents to just hang about inside the community hall, because that would just bring up the question of "how are these people still alive?" with nobody going outside to get supplies. With the residents being off camera, you can at least use your imagination to tell yourself that they're just outside getting food and firewood and you never get the chance to meet them. 

One last point I would like to bring up is that TLD has sort of prided itself as being an isolating survival experience. Even in Wintermute you're for the most part on your own, with only one or two NPC's that you return to rapidity per episode. If you had an community hall that was filled to the brim with survivors that are for the most part alive and well, that would just take a huge stomp on that isolating experience.

[Leeanda]

I wondered just how many dead bodies there are in the basement? And if they're all from the crash? 

[Bearimpaler101]

You can't access the basement at all no way in except the doors outside which you can't interact with

[Leeanda]

4 minutes ago, Bearimpaler101 said:

You can't access the basement at all no way in except the doors outside which you can't interact with

I know.🤔 Makes you wonder what's down there doesn't it🙂

[Bearimpaler101]

Yes I've tried and tried to glitch in there even but no go

[Ghurcb]

2 hours ago, APixelatedLemon said:

It's just a game design thing. 

Not only would you need to have a interior to house both the plane crash survivor, AND the remaining Thomsosn's Crossing residents. But you also have to give the Thomsosn's Crossing residents a purpose, weather it be to give some dialogue, or a side quest attached to them, or whatever. Also it wouldn't really make much sense to have all of the town residents to just hang about inside the community hall, because that would just bring up the question of "how are these people still alive?" with nobody going outside to get supplies. With the residents being off camera, you can at least use your imagination to tell yourself that they're just outside getting food and firewood and you never get the chance to meet them. 

One last point I would like to bring up is that TLD has sort of prided itself as being an isolating survival experience. Even in Wintermute you're for the most part on your own, with only one or two NPC's that you return to rapidity per episode. If you had an community hall that was filled to the brim with survivors that are for the most part alive and well, that would just take a huge stomp on that isolating experience.

I'm not saying the community hall should be "filled to the brim". Just a small bunch of locals (3-4 people) too old/sick/injured to venture outside to fight timberwolves. The implication would be that most of them died looking for the crash survivors. The remaining ones, are those who managed to return or never took the risk.

How do they survive? Well, there's already a whole questline where you have to supply the community hall with, well... literally everything. And before you came, they only spent 3-4 days in there. Supplies would only become a major concern once a dozen survivors showed up on their doorstep.

And they don't have to do much. Even if they are functionally furniture, it's still better than nothing. The space shouldn't be an issue either. There's room in the kitchen, and on the stage. Actually, the more crowded the hall is the better, in my opinion. The whole theme of episode 3 is helping those in need. The episode shows how far Astrid is willing to go to save people. But when I filled the kitchen cupboard with food, wood and medicine, it didn't feel like I helped anybody, because the community hall is just father Thomas and a bunch of copy-pasted crash survivors. There's no identity in there.

What I don't like about "they are off camera, use your imagination" excuse is that, TLD never really requires you to do that. Sure, a lot of actions are done through menus, but there's noting reaching the level of "Imagine there are people here doing people stuff". Usually, what you see is what there is. When Molly calls you and says that she's been keeping an eye on you, but you haven't come across her even once, it can be easily explained away. She's been looking from afar. She's good at hiding. You just weren't looking hard enough. But when Thomas is saying that more than half a dozen locals gathered in the community hall... There's no explaining it away. Those people are nowhere to be seen. And I can't suspend my disbelief hard enough to believe that they are here somehow.

If Hinterland decide to update episode 3 (which I don't expect to ever happen) that, in my opinion, should be one of the first changes.

 

EDIT: I just checked, and as it turns out, they are literally copy-pasted. Wow!

Edited May 3, 2022 by Ghurcb

[piddy3825]

2 hours ago, Ghurcb said:

I'm not saying the community hall should be "filled to the brim". Just a small bunch of locals (3-4 people) too old/sick/injured to venture outside to fight timberwolves. The implication would be that most of them died looking for the crash survivors. The remaining ones, are those who managed to return or never took the risk.

I agree that "game design" is kinda a lame excuse for not having some of the "locals" if there were any bunking in the community hall.   The dev team could have done a more efficient job of laying out spaces for both locals and survivors of the plane crash to be housed in the community center.  The could have arranged the bedding in a simple grid like order, left a few "beds" open and Father Thomas could have said that some of the locals were still out looking for survivors.  Don't recall if he acutally said that in game.  But that would have worked as a decent explanation.  

You're totally right, the hall should have been packed with people

[APixelatedLemon]

1 hour ago, piddy3825 said:

I agree that "game design" is kinda a lame excuse for not having some of the "locals" if there were any bunking in the community hall.   The dev team could have done a more efficient job of laying out spaces for both locals and survivors of the plane crash to be housed in the community center.  The could have arranged the bedding in a simple grid like order, left a few "beds" open and Father Thomas could have said that some of the locals were still out looking for survivors.  Don't recall if he acutally said that in game.  But that would have worked as a decent explanation.  

You're totally right, the hall should have been packed with people

I fee like I need to say that my original was trying to look from the perspective of the devs and try and understand why they decided not to have any town residents aside from  Father Thomas. I do understand both perspectives however in that yeah there should have been at least a few more residents, even inside the houses.

[piddy3825]

4 hours ago, APixelatedLemon said:

I fee like I need to say that my original was trying to look from the perspective of the devs and try and understand why they decided not to have any town residents aside from  Father Thomas. I do understand both perspectives however in that yeah there should have been at least a few more residents, even inside the houses.

not to worry, I wasn't singling you out.
However, if you recall in story mode, Father Thomas says that the community hall was opened to the community so that everyone could shelter together and stay warm in that regard.   given that set up, I can see OP's query as to where are all the people.   Obviously the surviors of the crash are occupying all the "beds" as there are only three open bunks where the player places the bodies of those plane crash survivors that they rescue.   honestly, it probably wouldn't have been too much extra work for the dev team to plop down a couple of extra sleeping bags, even it they didn't have an NPC to occupy them.   At the very least, they coulda put an NPC in the kitchen who just grumbled a lot and kept muttering "how are we suppossed to feed all these people?"   am I right? 🤒

[APixelatedLemon]

3 minutes ago, piddy3825 said:

not to worry, I wasn't singling you out.
However, if you recall in story mode, Father Thomas says that the community hall was opened to the community so that everyone could shelter together and stay warm in that regard.   given that set up, I can see OP's query as to where are all the people.   Obviously the surviors of the crash are occupying all the "beds" as there are only three open bunks where the player places the bodies of those plane crash survivors that they rescue.   honestly, it probably wouldn't have been too much extra work for the dev team to plop down a couple of extra sleeping bags, even it they didn't have an NPC to occupy them.   At the very least, they coulda put an NPC in the kitchen who just grumbled a lot and kept muttering "how are we suppossed to feed all these people?"   am I right? 🤒

I do agree yeah, it would have been nice to see a few more people around the place, even if they were little more than statues (The crash survivors are already much like that), just to give the place a sense of community coming together in these trying times. At the same time I can also see why the devs wanted to try and keep it to a minimum with just having Father Thomas being the "representation" of Thompson's Crossing, as he's was likely all that was needed in their eyes.

Another thing I just noticed is that Thomson's Crossing is the first and so far the only time in Wintermute that there was a supposed large gathering of people (not counting the gang of convicts in Blackrock as the prisons interior is mostly unexplorable) so Hinterland may have not really considered adding a few more NPCs. With Perseverance Mills likely being the main location for Episode 5, and it being possibly being the largest settlement on Great Bear, hopefully Hinterland can make the town populated with some NPCs.

[Pınar51-06]

You have a point, ı wanted to see some survivors maybe in sidequests but we had only Molly and some survivors eith Father Thomas.

I also wonder about ‘Foresttalker’ which we help in episode 2 ‘Lake Gunshot’ sidequest. We choosed to give or not some ammo with a little backpack. Did he make it or did he fade to the long dark. If he made it, where was he going to?

[Glflegolas]

It's a bit of a long shot, but maybe Hinterland will release an updated Episode 3 after Episode 5 is out. With the separation of Story and Survival mode, who's to say that future updates to Story mode aren't on the table too?

Alternatively, we could have a "deluxe edition" of Story mode, released at a later date. That would feature several more side quests added to all the episodes, and enable us to learn more about the history of Great Bear Island.

[piddy3825]

29 minutes ago, Glflegolas said:

It's a bit of a long shot, but maybe Hinterland will release an updated Episode 3 after Episode 5 is out. With the separation of Story and Survival mode, who's to say that future updates to Story mode aren't on the table too?

Alternatively, we could have a "deluxe edition" of Story mode, released at a later date. That would feature several more side quests added to all the episodes, and enable us to learn more about the history of Great Bear Island.

Kudos on the idea of a Redux on story mode after the final episode breaks and surival and story are no longer intertwined allowing Hinterland to make some fundamental changes to story mode without having to worry about the resulting impact on playing survival mode in the sandbox.   

I'd love to see a full on "Deluxe Edition, or Director's Cut" of the all five episodes of story mode where the all the various side quests are driven or connected to some interaction with an NPC who has chosen to remain on the island after the economic collapse.  I'm sure there would have a been a few "holdovers" who would not have abandoned their homes and instead would have chosen to tough it out.  All those side quests in Episode 3 could have easily been triggered by an NPC, like the story of the albino stag or the biggest fish in the pond.  Maybe even the story about the teens who sneak into the cave to party or the Sasquatch legend.  A couple or 3 townsfolk bunking down in the old town hall would have been great to suggest those things to Astrid.    

[Glflegolas]

On that note, I don't see any reason why further standalone stories couldn't be added to the game as DLC after Wintermute is done, as long as they don't contradict the Wintermute lore. At this point, Hinterland has created a great canvas that is the island of Great Bear, upon which there are endless opportunities for story-telling. The stories wouldn't have to be super long; 2-3 hours of gameplay per story is quite sufficient to me. And they don't have to involve Will or Astrid, either; I have no problem playing as one of the locals.

A few examples include:

• Coastal Highway and Desolation Point -- how did the Riken get shipwrecked? What kind of fish were being fished at Coastal Highway? Who built the cabins around Coastal Highway? How did Scruffy get into his cave? The Quonset Garage and Lonely Lighthouse seem like ideal places for NPC's to be based out of.
• Timberwolf Mountain -- what caused the plane crash? Did anyone survive? An NPC in the Mountaineer's Hut, and maybe one in Eric's Cave, would make sense.
• Ash Canyon -- when was gold discovered? How did the technical backpack end up in the gold mine? What caused the great forest fire? Why are there no deer or wolves at the higher elevations? Who lived at the Homesteader's Respite? An NPC in Angler's Den could tell us all that and more. This story could potentially be combined with the one at Timberwolf Mountain as the two regions are neighbours.
• Bleak Inlet -- why are there timberwolves there? What happened to the sardine fishery? Who manned the lookout? Why did its lighthouse fall and not the one at Desolation Point? An NPC at the cabin would be the most logical.
• Hushed River Valley -- what drew the locals there after the First Flare? What happened to the fellow who froze to death in the ice cave? Where did all the wolves around Monolith Lake go? Our NPC guide could live somewhere in an ice cave or a regular cave and tell us more about the region.

[piddy3825]

Damn, @Glflegolas, looks to me you've got enough DLC material here for at least 5 good segements if not more.   
Please take my money!

[Ghurcb]

Here's another little nitpick of mine. Episodes 2 and 3 end at the same time. That means, if instead of exploring the dam, Mackenzie just walked to Coastal Highway, he'd likely run into Astrid. But you can't walk to Coastal Highway. Reason? "I'd better stay focused". You can return to Milton and kiss Grey Mother on the cheek, but you can't get to Coastal Highway. Because you need to stay focused.

Solution? Raven Falls bridge should collapse. This would be a perfect in-universe explanation for why Will won't do what you know is best for him.

[Bearimpaler101]

No survival mode is based after Windermere and it's still intact.in survival

[Ghurcb]

1 hour ago, Bearimpaler101 said:

No survival mode is based after Windermere and it's still intact.in survival

I don't think they are actually related in any way. Some differences can't be explained by time and deterioration. Just look at this.

[Bearimpaler101]

True

[hozz1235]

On 5/3/2022 at 7:41 AM, Leeanda said:

I know.🤔 Makes you wonder what's down there doesn't it🙂

Meat locker.

[Leeanda]

Just now, hozz1235 said:

Meat locker.

Lol. 😀

[Ghurcb]

Now that I think about it, adding the Ravine to episode 2 would increase the number of regions you can visit in that episode alone to 5. This is 1.67 times more regions than in the rest of Wintermute.

So, if we're still talking about this Director's Cut, it would be cool, if you could visit Hushed River Valley during episode 1 or Timberwolf Mountain in the episode 3. Wouldn't it be interesting to see the Timberwolf Mountain without the crashed plain, but with a net of prepper caches, for example? Maybe, the Keeper's Pass could be expanded, so that you can return there later in the episode 3. But to reach the rest of it, you'd have to climb a rope, which isn't possible in the beginning, due to a broken rib.

This is one of the biggest problems of Wintermute. For 3 out of 4 released episodes you are locked in a single region. But the free exploration of the world is exactly why people like the survival mode so much.
Maybe, story mode would benefit from having a little more of it.

Edited May 14, 2022 by Ghurcb