Variable Starting Condition

[Martin Prchal]

I would like it if the game would try to kill you harder right at the start. Maybe give you a sprain, have one of your meters depleted, or just have your condition not be 100, to make it seem like you really just fell out a plane and were lying in the snow for a bit before you regained consciousness. This could be implemented as a custom setting, allowing you to tune the severity of your start. 

[Darkestnight]

I agree completely with the premise of your idea. I have actually used a save editor to lower my character's starting condition a couple of times to add to the reality of the situation they should be in. I mean, who crashlands out in the middle of nowhere without a scratch on them? o.O

[ajb1978]

Allow this as a Custom mode option.  Don't mess with the existing experience modes or challenge modes.

[ThePancakeLady]

40 minutes ago, ajb1978 said:

Allow this as a Custom mode option.  Don't mess with the existing experience modes or challenge modes.

This. ^^^

 

And only this. 

[peteloud]

I am beginning to think that the game might be better if custom modes were removed.

One of the interesting aspects of playing the game is comparing your playing of the game with other people's playing of the game.  I do not mean that in a competitive way, but with a learning objective.   When I play TLD I don't have any interest in doing better than anyone else, but I do like to find out how others tackle particular problems and find out about things that I might have missed.

If everyone is playing at a different custom level it is difficult to compare your experiences with the experiences of others.  For example I might puzzled by why I am freezing and struggling to survive the night in a fishing hut, then I see that someone else seems to be in a similar situation but not on the point of death from hypothermia.  If everyone is playing a different game because of customisation then it is difficult to compare experiences and learn from others.

If there is a limited set of fixed levels of play I would know that another person playing at the same level as me is experiencing the same problems therefore I can learn from their handling of a particular problem.

Having written all of that, my favourite level of play is a custom Stalker game with the wolves turned down one level.

 

[Guest kristaok]

28 minutes ago, peteloud said:

I am beginning to think that the game might be better if custom modes were removed.

No, please nuuuu~

 

[ajb1978]

3 hours ago, peteloud said:

I am beginning to think that the game might be better if custom modes were removed.

It would not be better.

[UpUpAway95]

4 hours ago, peteloud said:

I am beginning to think that the game might be better if custom modes were removed.

One of the interesting aspects of playing the game is comparing your playing of the game with other people's playing of the game.  I do not mean that in a competitive way, but with a learning objective.   When I play TLD I don't have any interest in doing better than anyone else, but I do like to find out how others tackle particular problems and find out about things that I might have missed.

If everyone is playing at a different custom level it is difficult to compare your experiences with the experiences of others.  For example I might puzzled by why I am freezing and struggling to survive the night in a fishing hut, then I see that someone else seems to be in a similar situation but not on the point of death from hypothermia.  If everyone is playing a different game because of customisation then it is difficult to compare experiences and learn from others.

If there is a limited set of fixed levels of play I would know that another person playing at the same level as me is experiencing the same problems therefore I can learn from their handling of a particular problem.

Having written all of that, my favourite level of play is a custom Stalker game with the wolves turned down one level.

 

Comparisons on a learning basis are still possible using custom modes... just share the code.  It allows for more and different comparisons that are not rooted in this culture of "difficulty."  IMO, they would be more meaningful.

[ThePancakeLady]

1 hour ago, ajb1978 said:

5 hours ago, peteloud said:

I am beginning to think that the game might be better if custom modes were removed.

It would not be better.

I second that opinion. 

 

[MarrowStone]

Whats the reasoning for not having variable starting conditions?

[peteloud]

24 minutes ago, MarrowStone said:

Whats the reasoning for not having variable starting conditions?

My reasoning would be that it means that everybody is playing a different game, which makes it difficult to compare incidents that they experience with incidents that I experience.

[MarrowStone]

19 minutes ago, peteloud said:

My reasoning would be that it means that everybody is playing a different game, which makes it difficult to compare incidents that they experience with incidents that I experience.

Thanks, but isn't that already the case with different buildings being destroyed and corpse locations and loot tables?

[ThePancakeLady]

6 hours ago, MarrowStone said:

6 hours ago, peteloud said:

My reasoning would be that it means that everybody is playing a different game, which makes it difficult to compare incidents that they experience with incidents that I experience.

Thanks, but isn't that already the case with different buildings being destroyed and corpse locations and loot tables?

Yup. And with starting gear, and starting location on any map, chosen or random. Hell, I've done Pilgrim runs where my gal spawns in almost all ragged starting gear, single layer only, that made "typical" Loper starting gear look "top tier" in comparison. RNJesus is not my friend, lol.

But imagine how many "outraged" threads there would be if Lopers spawned into the world with a random 23% total condition. Heck, even Pilgrims are not likely to enjoy that. But if it is a Custom Setting, and you could choose "Random Starting Condition" or "Starting Condition 100%", I'm good with that.

Edited December 31, 2019 by ThePancakeLady

[Dx421]

14 hours ago, peteloud said:

I am beginning to think that the game might be better if custom modes were removed.

One of the interesting aspects of playing the game is comparing your playing of the game with other people's playing of the game.  I do not mean that in a competitive way, but with a learning objective.   When I play TLD I don't have any interest in doing better than anyone else, but I do like to find out how others tackle particular problems and find out about things that I might have missed.

If everyone is playing at a different custom level it is difficult to compare your experiences with the experiences of others.

This was an issue as Hinterland created new difficulties levels back years ago.

Numerous players were having issue communicating their strategies because some were playing Voyageur, other Stalker, others Pilgrim. When Interloper was added it was a completely different game that required very different tactics.

Should everyone play on one level so all information is easy to share? No. Clearly the game benefits from those 4 levels, players can build up and ''advance'' if that's what they think they're doing.

Those levels continue to change, Interloper now is not what Interloper was in test branch. Even DMC doesn't get that experience. So comparison is only so valuable and old info becomes outdated. 

Custom is best for those who have already played the game 100s or even 1000s of hours and want to keep creating new scenarios and challenges for themselves.  It should not be removed.

------------------------

OP has a great idea. Adding in 'tough starts' would give some welcomed challenge 👍

Edited December 31, 2019 by Dx421
a word

[UpUpAway95]

I'm absolutely in favor of this as a custom setting, although I don't really see how it would have any great effect on a player's strategy for a playthrough long-term.  The moment the player sleeps and regains condition or heals that sprain, it becomes a rather moot setting.

As part of a standard difficulty, I see little point in giving a player a starting affliction if that player has no chance of having the necessary items close at hand to treat the condition.  The save would become doomed from the start... and might as well not be started at all.  I would imagine a lot of players would soon develop the habit of starting a save, looking quickly at the condition of their character and, if not good, simply deleting that save themselves and start another.  It would become a form of "farming" for a good start.

[Martin Prchal]

I just realized this would completely break Deadman since you cannot regain condition there so if your start is bad then rip. This would have to be a custom setting for sure and Deadman would likely be exempt from this.

I don't want this to have any impact on the player long term, I just want the start to be a bit more interesting. 

[UpUpAway95]

1 hour ago, Martin Prchal said:

I just realized this would completely break Deadman since you cannot regain condition there so if your start is bad then rip. This would have to be a custom setting for sure and Deadman would likely be exempt from this.

I don't want this to have any impact on the player long term, I just want the start to be a bit more interesting. 

Since Deadman is itself a custom setting, I don't think it should be exempt (or conditional) upon other custom settings being set a certain way.  If an individual player decides to attempt a Deadman custom set along with a variable start condition custom setting, then they should be able to do so.  I just don't think the standard difficulties should have variable start conditions for the character.

[Guest kristaok]

On 12/30/2019 at 11:57 AM, peteloud said:

My reasoning would be that it means that everybody is playing a different game, which makes it difficult to compare incidents that they experience with incidents that I experience.

But what if I don't want to compare my experience? what if I actually prefer to play alone? I mean I don't mind coming to the Forums from time to time, but I don't come here to brag or compare. 

I've already seen this game have things removed already that I didn't particularly like removed, for instance I don't like the changes to the baiting mechanic now because it's so unrealistic. So yea, I don't want anymore omissions or drastic changes.

[manolitode]

On 12/26/2019 at 7:29 PM, Martin Prchal said:

I would like it if the game would try to kill you harder right at the start. Maybe give you a sprain, have one of your meters depleted, or just have your condition not be 100, to make it seem like you really just fell out a plane and were lying in the snow for a bit before you regained consciousness. This could be implemented as a custom setting, allowing you to tune the severity of your start. 

I agree, at least on the higher difficulties, you spawn at morning, dusk, night etc so why not spawn with a sprain, in a blizzard, without a can etc. Sure it's logical that a plane crash would cause pain at the very least, but if we want more logic then we'd only be able to spawn in the vicinity of the crashed planes, unless we parachuted when it was on its way down