Pilgrim Mode needs more difficulties

[Kris-thepilgrim]

Hi there!

I am playing TLD for over 200 hours in the sandbox mode and cant get enough of it. Most of the time I play it in pilgrim mode, cause I hate the combat system and scare my cat, when I am clicking as mad as a crazy woman on the mouse to kill the wolf.

The Pilgrim mode is great.

I just dont understand, why:

- I burn less calories as in voyeur or stalker mode

- I cannot get cabin fever

In Pilgrim mode no animal will harm me - unless I am not trying to shoot it. This is the biggest change in the mode and it will be not possible to starve to death because I cant find food. I really wish, that I can get all the diseases in voyeur mode and the calorie burning. I know that I am not speaking for the pilgrim community.

Its a great game - I love it!

Kris

[Scyzara]

Hi Kris and welcome to the forums!

2 hours ago, Kris-thepilgrim said:

The Pilgrim mode is great.

I just dont understand, why:

- I burn less calories as in voyeur or stalker mode

- I cannot get cabin fever

Well, Pilgrim was particularly designed to be the easiest mode regarding its overall difficulty level. It's tailored towards players who aren't seeking a challenging gameplay, but rather just want to enjoy discovering the world without many risks or dangers. That's the reason why it's much easier to fulfill your characters needs (hunger, thirst, warmth, rest) in Pilgrim and why other potential dangers like unprovoked wildlife attacks, parasite infections or cabin fever are missing in this mode as well.

Anyway, thank you for your feedback. You're absolutely not the first person to ask for some kind of Pilgrim+ mode with a difficulty level somewhere between Pilgrim and Voyageur. I thus believe it's quite probable that someone will create a mod to address these wishes once the official modding support has launched after the story mode release.

[Boston123]

Amusingly enough, I find Pilgrim to be the most "realistic", at least with regards to animals and hunting. In Voyageur and Stalker, wolves and bears practically throw themselves on your plate.

In Pilgrim, hunting is actually difficult. It took me a while to sneak up on enough wolves to get my coat.

[Kris-thepilgrim]

@Scyzara

Thank you for the welcome!

Yeah I know that the pilgrim mode is for those who are afraid of the wolves (but I am more afraid to break my mouse while fighting against a wolf ;)).

But I dont understand why it is so easy. Its good to read, that others are having these wishes too and maybe there will be a mod for this. That would be great!

@Boston123

Hunting in Pilgrim is easy when you use wolves to hunt deers. You just have to find a fluffy wolf and hunt them towards a deer. Voila, you will get tons of meat.

Thank you for your answer

[piddy3825]

I don't know about you guys, but I think an elegant solution to all of this would be if a player could just toggle the various mechanics off and on and basically customize their game play experience.  I admit, I don't know diddly squat about programming, but if I can conceive it, then I know there is some who can write the code.  Anyways, If it was up to me, I would create another difficulty level that incorporates the survival mechanics of Voyageur mode with the animal behavior mechanics of Pilgrim mode.  Throw all that environmental survival difficulty at me, because that seems real and appropriate, but let me hunt the animals because that seems more real and appropriate, at least to my sensibilities.  

The pilgrim mode hunting mechanics have given me some of the funnest game play, you'll know what I mean if you ever herded deer or bunnies towards stalking wolves out on the ice out along the coastal highway, setting yourself up for that wolf shot and a hopeful two for one harvest.  Takes a long time to get a wolf coat in pilgrim mode...  

[nicko]

I agree an option in Pilgrim mode to add some of the new elements introduced recently would be great.

I.E let us decide if we want Cabin Fever, or new Parasites. Or just add them to Pilgrim. Hope they don't limit Pilgrim to much, specially as other new features are introduced.

[piddy3825]

1 hour ago, nicko said:

I agree an option in Pilgrim mode to add some of the new elements introduced recently would be great.

I.E let us decide if we want Cabin Fever, or new Parasites. Or just add them to Pilgrim. Hope they don't limit Pilgrim to much, specially as other new features are introduced.

They were in Pilgrim with the initial rollout of all the new stuff but apparently there was too much belly aching over Cabin Fever that it was promptly removed with the first patch update..  I commented then on taking those features out and our beloved creative director gave me a personal zinger and told me if I wanted Cabin Fever, I should step up my game and play Voyageur mode...  ouch...  

[nicko]

4 minutes ago, piddy3825 said:

They were in Pilgrim with the initial rollout of all the new stuff but apparently there was too much belly aching over Cabin Fever that it was promptly removed with the first patch update..  I commented then on taking those features out and our beloved creative director gave me a personal zinger and told me if I wanted Cabin Fever, I should step up my game and play Voyageur mode...  ouch...  

really? ouch. If they expect that then we need an option to turn options off/on in Voyageur mode like killer animals. I always thought that Pilgrim was wild life friendly, so I don't get why the other new features are not added? Cabin fever etc. who stays indoors 6 days in a row anyways?

[Kris-thepilgrim]

10 hours ago, piddy3825 said:

They were in Pilgrim with the initial rollout of all the new stuff but apparently there was too much belly aching over Cabin Fever that it was promptly removed with the first patch update..  I commented then on taking those features out and our beloved creative director gave me a personal zinger and told me if I wanted Cabin Fever, I should step up my game and play Voyageur mode...  ouch...  

Is that so?

I dont wanna fight wolves, but I dont mind to get a harsh blizzard or cabin fever like in stalker. And I dont understand it, how it is "stepping up" a game when animals attacking me.

I played stalker a few times and managed to survived enough days to get sick of it. I really like it to step out of my house or cave and enjoy the day and the wildlife in peace. An option to turn it on or off some things would be really great but I dont know how difficult it is to change it.

Thank you both for your comments in this thread - maybe it will get the attention of the programmers.

[Vhalkyrie]

I play on Voyager because the weather and resources are too easy on Pilgrim, but I dislike the wolves.  I don't play on stalker because too many wolves.

I have often posted about wanting custom sliders to toggle certain features on or off.  Failing that, perhaps there will be modding one day I guess.

[Dirmagnos]

42 minutes ago, Vhalkyrie said:

I play on Voyager because the weather and resources are too easy on Pilgrim, but I dislike the wolves.  I don't play on stalker because too many wolves.

I have often posted about wanting custom sliders to toggle certain features on or off.  Failing that, perhaps there will be modding one day I guess.

Sliders would be nice, checkboxes as well.

Id like to have hard wolves, aggressive as well, so that every encounter would be an actual challenge. Not just more of them, that make it annoying rather hard as Stalker is. What i dont want are those dreaded lame parasites, that dont make much sense.

Weather to be harsher, etc. Small tweaks here and there. Currently its like neither option kinda gives right feel.

[Pillock]

If you read the descriptions, it tells you what the three difficulty levels are for.

As Scyzara says, Pilgrim is not supposed to be difficult. Not at all. It isn't meant to be a mode that challenges you to stay alive; it is a mode that enables you to enjoy the gameworld without the harsh survival challenges. It tells you this in the menu, before you start the game.

If you want the challenge, you play Voyageur. If you don't want to fight wolves in Voyageur, you have to learn how to avoid them - it is possible, and not even terribly difficult. Voyageur is the 'standard' difficulty setting - this is the one where the game plays closest to the designers' vision of what the 'normal' experience should be. If you master that, and you start to get bored with it, then you've got Stalker to play with, which tweaks the difficulty to a "punishing", 'beyond normal', extra-challenge level.

Frankly, until mods inevitably come along that fiddle with these balances, I don't think we need more than the 3 standards that the game gives us now.

[Ruruwawa]

I'm in favor of a Custom sandbox mode too.  Mostly because it lets folks personalize the gameplay and challenge in lots of different ways.

I guess it could come from mods, but it would feel quite natural (and valuable) as built-in feature.  Compare to 4x strategy games: they very often have ways to enable different features of the AI as a part of the base game, whereas most mods are for new maps or factions.

[Kris-thepilgrim]

4 hours ago, Dirmagnos said:

Sliders would be nice, checkboxes as well.

Id like to have hard wolves, aggressive as well, so that every encounter would be an actual challenge. Not just more of them, that make it annoying rather hard as Stalker is. What i dont want are those dreaded lame parasites, that dont make much sense.

Weather to be harsher, etc. Small tweaks here and there. Currently its like neither option kinda gives right feel.

I agree with you.

I like harsh weather, but I dont want to fight wolves.

I think the fact, that animals are not attacking in pilgrim unless you disturb them is the biggest + you can get.

There is no need for friendly weather or cutting of diseases.

[cekivi]

If I remember correctly from an old post @Raphael van Lierop mentioned that they don't like having toggle-able features as it won't let them test the new mechanics they're experimenting with (it was in a post on the merits of NPCs). As such, I don't think it will be likely to see toggles or sliders in the game to adjust difficulty in the near future. You'll likely have to wait until release or a mod to have that degree of freedom over the difficulty since, at that point, "Voyager", "Pilgrim" and "Stalker" won't really exist anymore.

To echo what others have said, Pilgrim is deliberately being kept as easy as possible. Pilgrim is intended for players who just want to explore and experience the game without worrying as much about weather, disease or animals. If you do find Pilgrim too easy than I would suggest trying Voyager. The additional challenges are a lot of fun and the wolves can still be managed or avoided fairly easily. Also, Voyager gives all players a head start to loot equipment before the first wolf actually spawns. It's 24 hours if memory serves.

[Ruruwawa]

17 hours ago, cekivi said:

If I remember correctly from an old post @Raphael van Lierop mentioned that they don't like having toggle-able features as it won't let them test the new mechanics they're experimenting with (it was in a post on the merits of NPCs). As such, I don't think it will be likely to see toggles or sliders in the game to adjust difficulty in the near future. You'll likely have to wait until release or a mod to have that degree of freedom over the difficulty since, at that point, "Voyager", "Pilgrim" and "Stalker" won't really exist anymore.

To echo what others have said, Pilgrim is deliberately being kept as easy as possible. Pilgrim is intended for players who just want to explore and experience the game without worrying as much about weather, disease or animals. If you do find Pilgrim too easy than I would suggest trying Voyager. The additional challenges are a lot of fun and the wolves can still be managed or avoided fairly easily. Also, Voyager gives all players a head start to loot equipment before the first wolf actually spawns. It's 24 hours if memory serves.

You're likely right that we won't see a custom mode or mods until the release timeframe.  Gotta get the gameplay systems all shaken out first before it makes sense to factor them into sets you can enable/disable.

As to the intent of Pilgrim, I'm sure you are right.  But I'm not sure that means that the three game modes adequately address the needs of all players.  I think there's a gigantic gap in difficulty between Pilgrim and Voyageur for new players.  And it's not just wolves.  Calories (this is the big one!), fatigue, cabin fever, parasites, weather.  Sure feels like there's an opportunity here to help new players ease into the more hardcore survival modes.  Even if it's just a tutorial to introduce key gameplay systems before you drop them into the learn-by-dying cycle.

[cekivi]

42 minutes ago, Ruruwawa said:

 Calories (this is the big one!), fatigue, cabin fever, parasites, weather.  Sure feels like there's an opportunity here to help new players ease into the more hardcore survival modes.  Even if it's just a tutorial to introduce key gameplay systems before you drop them into the learn-by-dying cycle.

Personally, I've felt for a while that the game needs some tutorials. Especially for hunting although the addition of archery targets was a big help.

Most of that gameplay teaching does exist on various lets plays as well but a video is still not quite the same as doing it yourself.

[piddy3825]

On 4/29/2016 at 10:07 AM, Kris-thepilgrim said:

Is that so?

I dont wanna fight wolves, but I dont mind to get a harsh blizzard or cabin fever like in stalker. And I dont understand it, how it is "stepping up" a game when animals attacking me.

I played stalker a few times and managed to survived enough days to get sick of it. I really like it to step out of my house or cave and enjoy the day and the wildlife in peace. An option to turn it on or off some things would be really great but I dont know how difficult it is to change it.

Thank you both for your comments in this thread - maybe it will get the attention of the programmers.

Hey, did I miss something on one of these updates?  'cause i just got cabin fever in Pilgrim mode! Hey, I'm not complaining, I was happy to see it!  I, thought Yay, i hope this isnt a glitch.  Please tell me it's legit.  I gotta know. 

btw v.332

[Raphael van Lierop]

Thanks for the feedback regarding the various Experience Modes. Although there's certainly a difficulty/challenge component, we try to think of them as different "experiences" of The Long Dark, utilizing the same mechanics but tuned differently. Pilgrim players tend to use it as a meditation of sorts, from what we can see and what we've heard, so many of the mechanics designed to add more challenge (hostile wildlife being more common, resources depleting more quickly, late-game issues like Cabin Fever, etc.) don't really make sense there. 

We've been opposed to the idea of adding sliders because we see ourselves as Experience Creators and not simply system architects. We also find that the solution of providing everything as an optional thing is never a good solution either -- it tends to create a lot of watered-down experiences, it removes the ability for us to talk about the game as a kind of shared experience with reference points in common, and is also a LOT more work for us, both for development and testing.

But, all that being said, we know the game and its community is a living breathing thing and that tastes and needs change over time. We're not ignoring this feedback. Just absorbing it and thinking about what to do, if anything.

[Pillock]

9 hours ago, Raphael van Lierop said:

it removes the ability for us to talk about the game as a kind of shared experience with reference points in common,

I think this part is more important than a lot of people give it credit for. The arrival of mods will inevitably disrupt this, but common reference points for the vanilla game is something that I definitely think should be maintained.

Thanks for this clarification, it's just what I wanted to hear!

[Kris-thepilgrim]

Hi Raphael

Thank you for your comment!

I am not happy about your answer and I still have hope that you will change the modus in the future. Or give the chance of modders who can add some things. We will see. I am a big fan of this game and play it since the beginning. I am sure that you will make it great in the end!

Greetings from Germany

Kris

[Gleudal]

On 28.4.2016 at 8:56 PM, Boston123 said:

Amusingly enough, I find Pilgrim to be the most "realistic", at least with regards to animals and hunting. In Voyageur and Stalker, wolves and bears practically throw themselves on your plate.

In Pilgrim, hunting is actually difficult. It took me a while to sneak up on enough wolves to get my coat.

I dont play Pilgrim mode, unless there is a new area, that I wanna discover, without watching out for wolfes, but +1 on that