Harvesting by hand

[Nitzy]

From what I've read, we can no longer harvest by hand with the new update, and that this was an intentional choice... So I guess we can no longer catch and eat rabbits until we forge a tool? 

This seems a little punishing to me when you can in fact hand harvest a rabbit in real life. Larger game I understand but rabbits and birds? 

On Interloper, rabbits are always a staple food for me while I'm working on getting my tools. I hope hinterland reconsiders this choice.

[ManicManiac]

@Nitzy
I mean, we just have to start the harvesting with at tool (to make a hole so-to-speak).  After we get it started, we can resume by hand if we'd like.  I think that makes sense enough.  I'm good with the change, it's a detail I can appreciate. 

[Nitzy]

Exactly, we have to find the hacksaw or go to the forge before we can do any harvesting. Not a good change.

New animations shouldn't come at the expense of gameplay mechanics.

[artmunki]

5 minutes ago, ManicManiac said:

@Nitzy
I mean, we just have to start the harvesting with at tool (to make a hole so-to-speak).  After we get it started, we can resume by hand if we'd like.  I think that makes sense enough.  I'm good with the change, it's a detail I can appreciate. 

I just suggested in a thread in the Survival Mode section that they could maybe add an option for higher-level harvesting, to allow you to make a few preparatory cuts to a carcass with very minimal tool wear, so you could then continue by hand. TBH this change is only really likely to affect me in how many rabbits I bother catching now, as they're just not worth the tool wear, but I'll just have to learn to deal with it.

[ManicManiac]

Adapt and overcome is at the heart of survival.  

[vFiReStOrMv]

Just started playing on interloper and thought it was punishing enough. Don't know how I will survive if I don't just luck up and find a hacksaw in the first day or two. Not real happy about this part of the update. At least allow for rabbits. Maybe take even longer by hand than it was.

[conanjaguar]

Oof… that is going to severely hurt the kinds of runs I like to do, with little or no access to forge and tools . Oh well, we must improvise, adapt, and overcome, as @ManicManiac said.

[ManicManiac]

@conanjaguar

Yes, it's going to potentially make my next Forgeless Interloper run very difficult.  
But, the more I think about it... there are a lot of Ravaged (prop) Carcasses around.
Plus if you get a wolf to hunt for you... the deer it fells you should be able to strip by hand too.
Also... if we happen to find a prybar or heavy hammer (and bit of metal too, I suppose), fish cook nice and easily (no knife, hatchet, or hacksaw needed).

There are things we can do...

But then again... I here for the struggle.  It's what I love most about Great Bear Island.

Edited December 6, 2023 by ManicManiac

[UpUpAway95]

1 hour ago, ManicManiac said:

@conanjaguar

Yes, it's going to potentially make my next Forgeless Interloper run very difficult.  
But, the more I think about it... there are a lot of Ravaged (prop) Carcasses around.
Plus if you get a wolf to hunt for you... the deer it fells you should be able to strip by hand too.
Also... if we happen to find a prybar or heavy hammer (and bit of metal too, I suppose), fish cook nice and easily (no knife, hatchet, or hacksaw needed).

There are things we can do...

But then again... I here for the struggle.  It's what I love most about Great Bear Island.

Yes, I'll adapt (probably by changing from one-zone runs to two-zone ones to ensure a forge is available and increase the likelihood of finding a heavy hammer and hatchet).  I'm still not a fan of the change, though.  I liked it the way it was and don't really see why they needed to change it.  Regardless, I would love them to allow me to compensate by enabling knives and/or hatchets without resorting to increasing the baseline resource setting.

Edited December 6, 2023 by UpUpAway95

[Serenity]

It mostly makes sense, but they could make an exception for rabbits. In reality you skin those by hand in seconds. Longer if you want to preserve the fur.

[Dan_]

I honestly don't mind the change. It makes the early game a lot more challenging and the hacksaw a more prized possession for me. You can still hand harvest kills you steal from wolves, so I still think it doesn't preclude any playstyles from being viable or enjoyable. I'm well aware you can field dress most small game with your bare hands IRL, but I still think this is a smart gameplay decision. 

In the future, I'd suggest they could implement a "smell of the slaughterhouse" debuff if you harvest anything by hand. It could add three stink marks for the next X amount of time to represent the smell of blood much like the "blood loss" affliction, only with a set amount of time to go away. It could further stimulate tool usage, because let's face it, it's very easy to just ping the bunnies/birdies with rocks and hand harvest/cook them through the early game and always have well fed and resources 95% of the time. Now we have to fight for that buff in the early game and I'm all here for it. 

[Leeanda]

Ewww.. it's gross... POOR BUNNIES...  I'm not going to be killing one of them again for a long while🥺

Edited December 6, 2023 by Leeanda

[xanna]

5 minutes ago, Dan_ said:

I honestly don't mind the change. It makes the early game a lot more challenging and the hacksaw a more prized possession for me. You can still hand harvest kills you steal from wolves, so I still think it doesn't preclude any playstyles from being viable or enjoyable. I'm well aware you can field dress most small game with your bare hands IRL, but I still think this is a smart gameplay decision. 

In the future, I'd suggest they could implement a "smell of the slaughterhouse" debuff if you harvest anything by hand. It could add three stink marks for the next X amount of time to represent the smell of blood much like the "blood loss" affliction, only with a set amount of time to go away. It could further stimulate tool usage, because let's face it, it's very easy to just ping the bunnies/birdies with rocks and hand harvest/cook them through the early game and always have well fed and resources 95% of the time. Now we have to fight for that buff in the early game and I'm all here for it. 

100% agree, and plus it actually motivates going fishing as a food source, something I've only ever really one as a novelty as eating other food has felt trivial in comparison.

[Dan_]

Honestly I feel the same.

The small amount of gore depiction alone makes me not want to harvest bunnies anymore, let alone using my bloody hands. I guess I'm switching back to wool toques and work gloves for the foreseeable future, back to 2015 fashion I guess. That and breaking their little necks, HL does know how to push you to feel empathy for the animals in a survival game. Testament to the art/sound direction of this game, still unparalleled to me. 

[Leeanda]

2 minutes ago, Dan_ said:

Honestly I feel the same.

The small amount of gore depiction alone makes me not want to harvest bunnies anymore, let alone using my bloody hands. I guess I'm switching back to wool toques and work gloves for the foreseeable future, back to 2015 fashion I guess. That and breaking their little necks, HL does know how to push you to feel empathy for the animals in a survival game. Testament to the art/sound direction of this game, still unparalleled to me. 

I'll be using the hides from containers and caches only from now on....  if I need to repair the hat and gloves then I'll use wolf killed rabbits and still look away....  

It does make me remember why it's a 16+ age rating though.

[UpUpAway95]

49 minutes ago, Dan_ said:

I honestly don't mind the change. It makes the early game a lot more challenging and the hacksaw a more prized possession for me. You can still hand harvest kills you steal from wolves, so I still think it doesn't preclude any playstyles from being viable or enjoyable. I'm well aware you can field dress most small game with your bare hands IRL, but I still think this is a smart gameplay decision. 

In the future, I'd suggest they could implement a "smell of the slaughterhouse" debuff if you harvest anything by hand. It could add three stink marks for the next X amount of time to represent the smell of blood much like the "blood loss" affliction, only with a set amount of time to go away. It could further stimulate tool usage, because let's face it, it's very easy to just ping the bunnies/birdies with rocks and hand harvest/cook them through the early game and always have well fed and resources 95% of the time. Now we have to fight for that buff in the early game and I'm all here for it. 

Challenging, yes - even nigh on impossible in some single-zone runs where the wolves don't kill much.  Enjoyable?  Not really. 😀

[conanjaguar]

2 hours ago, Dan_ said:

I'd suggest they could implement a "smell of the slaughterhouse" debuff if you harvest anything by hand. It could add three stink marks for the next X amount of time to represent the smell of blood much like the "blood loss" affliction, only with a set amount of time to go away.

That’s a great idea! Maybe it could bring along hand washing as well…

[ManicManiac]

11 hours ago, UpUpAway95 said:

Yes, I'll adapt (probably by changing from one-zone runs to two-zone ones to ensure a forge is available and increase the likelihood of finding a heavy hammer and hatchet).  I'm still not a fan of the change, though.  I liked it the way it was and don't really see why they needed to change it.  Regardless, I would love them to allow me to compensate by enabling knives and/or hatchets without resorting to increasing the baseline resource setting.

Fare enough, and I totally understand where you're coming from, I do.  I wasn't trying to denigrate your position on the matter.  More that I was just offering @conanjaguar my thoughts on the sort of options we still have available to us for when we don't have a knife/hatch (improvised or otherwise).

Yes, we'll all have to adapt... and it's perfectly valid to not like the change (of course)... especially considering how it will affect your preferred personal challenge style.  I do feel for you on that... please don't get me wrong.

I wasn't in any way trying to trivialize your opinion... just offering folks who read the thread another angle to maybe consider.

[UpUpAway95]

1 hour ago, ManicManiac said:

Fare enough, and I totally understand where you're coming from, I do.  I wasn't trying to denigrate your position on the matter.  More that I was just offering @conanjaguar my thoughts on the sort of options we still have available to us for when we don't have a knife/hatch (improvised or otherwise).

Yes, we'll all have to adapt... and it's perfectly valid to not like the change (of course)... especially considering how it will affect your preferred personal challenge style.  I do feel for you on that... please don't get me wrong.

I wasn't in any way trying to trivialize your opinion... just offering folks who read the thread another angle to maybe consider.

I don''t know why you think I would think that you're "trying to denigrate" my position on the matter, TBH.  There was nothing in my post that would suggest that I thought that way.

I can adapt without necessarily "loving" the change.  It was well balanced before, now it's a bit of a mess, IMO.  They should at least allow the rabbits since that has been the basic food supply for a LOT of interlopers (not just the one's that like to force themselves to stay in a single zone).  They've also reduced spawns (again) on certain items.  I can confirm that BR no longer spawns the campfire with the hatchet (which used to be a guaranteed spawn in that zone when all the applicable settings were pushed to their easiest levels.  Keep in mind that one cannot fish without something to break the ice.  After several starts, the rifle spawn in that zone also appears to have been eliminated.  Food, which was particularly ample after the Frontier Comforts update, has also been significantly reduced on average in that zone.  Keep in mind these are at the easiest custom settings - where the game isn't supposed to be that tough.  I'm still testing other regions, but I expect the same pattern.

I'll adapt (as always); but I'm not really finding these changes make the game more "enjoyable" for a wider variety of players.

[ManicManiac]

9 minutes ago, UpUpAway95 said:

I don''t know why you think I would think that you're "trying to denigrate" my position on the matter, TBH.  There was nothing in my post that would suggest that I thought that way.

I was just trying to let know you that I meant no offense... and of course supporting that your dislike of the change was perfectly valid.
So often folks get prickly with me any time I don't agree or offer a differing point of view.  I was only trying to keep it amicable.

Edited December 6, 2023 by ManicManiac

[UpUpAway95]

Just now, ManicManiac said:

I was just trying to let know you that I meant to offense... and of course supporting that your dislike of the change was perfectly valid.
So often folks get prickly with me any time I don't agree or offer a differing point of view.  I was only trying to keep it amicable.

Fair enough, but there was really no need for it.  We're good as far as I'm concerned.

Too often people think I'm being "prickly" when all I'm doing is trying to explain my ideas as thoroughly as I can.  What all this boils down to is my feeling that this game's custom menu needs a BIG overhaul.  Some of the slide bars have too little effect between the easiest and toughest settings and too many of the mechanics that have been added since I started playing are not reflected at all in the custom menu.  HL has hinted at a custom menu update, and I'm glad for that - IF they follow through with making it broader and more versatile for a wider variety of players - not just those that want to make it "more challenging" and not just by continually reducing rifle spawns.

[Dan_]

4 hours ago, UpUpAway95 said:

Challenging, yes - even nigh on impossible in some single-zone runs where the wolves don't kill much.  Enjoyable?  Not really. 😀

That is a very fair assessment, though I'm gonna disagree on the non-enjoyable veredict.  

I suppose if all players were asked the majority would be unhappy with the changes and the extent of them. I don't often play other difficulty modes other than base Interloper, so I understand that changes like this have a downstream impact on mechanics/items present in other difficulty levels, and such changes might be undesirable to their respective target player base ( difficulty-wise ). Same goes to the points your raised about the custom game toolbox, I don't experiment with it a lot so I can appreciate insight from somebody that does. 

We know for a fact HL values this direct and constructive criticism. No reason to change your style. 

Stay warm and 🌵.

 

 

[LostRealist]

10 hours ago, Dan_ said:

HL does know how to push you to feel empathy for the animals in a survival game.

Dude... every time I hear the yelp of a dying wolf, man. Emotional terror.

The worst one for me is scared bears - there's just something so heartbreaking about seeing this dangerous, massive, proud animal reduced to fleeing in terror because it's confronted with something it cannot possibly comprehend, like a flare shell. Hits me right in the feels every time. Guy could have mauled me a minute ago, I still feel so terrible and sorry.

My personal playing style avoids eating predator meat anyway even at L5 unless to literally save my life, and I only kill them in self-defence when there are no other options at all, that's how much they have me caring for them. They don't know any better, but I do.

So yes, absolutely. HL pulled that off incredibly.

[UpUpAway95]

11 hours ago, Serenity said:

It mostly makes sense, but they could make an exception for rabbits. In reality you skin those by hand in seconds. Longer if you want to preserve the fur.

Ptarmigans should be exempt from this as well since you don't need a knife to clean them either:

 

[Enigmaecho]

On 12/5/2023 at 6:40 PM, Nitzy said:

Exactly, we have to find the hacksaw or go to the forge before we can do any harvesting. Not a good change.

New animations shouldn't come at the expense of gameplay mechanics.

It’s a good change same with the removal of micro harvesting to speed run 5 cook, I’ll never get why folks choose to play interloper then want to cheese the hell out of it 🤷🏻‍♂️