A case for handguns in TLD

[Dancewithknives]

It was my birthday recently and I finally got to go shooting for the first time in ages. While shooting, it got me thinking about how I think there may be a case for adding more handguns into TLD.

 

As of now, there are 2 traditional firearms in The Long Dark, The Rifle and Revolver, simple and effective. I agree is some regards that the game doesn’t need have dozens of guns, but as I considered it, I think there may be a good case for more handguns in the game.

 

Now, when you think of handgun, you probably have a few come to mind immediately, like the M9, Desert Eagle, Glock 17, 1911, USP, etc. the types you would see in a modern FPS, what I am actually talking about are the mouse guns, pocket guns, vest carrys, sub compacts, all of the guns you would see in a gun store but not in COD. 

 

I do think it could be realistic in the setting that people living in the wilderness would have extra guns on hand as well as possibly make a gameplay mechanic of having to use what you have available rather than what you may want. Also, while in the terms of a video game, most bolt action rifles firing large caliber rounds would function very similar besides minute changes to range, damage values, or magazine sizes, I personally like handguns more because of how much their their use, calibers, and function can vary drastically. 

 

Also, as another resource, magazines for automatics could be reloaded in the menu and used as another consequence for magazine fed handguns. Reloading could be treated like Escape from Tarkov with a reload that saves the mag and a quicker one that loses it. 

 

Although anecdotal, I have two stories that justify their inclusion in my mind. Although a longer story, I had an old neighbor who apparently was the most unluckiest person ever and was constantly hitting deer with his truck, to the point that he kept a snub nosed .38 pistol in his glove box to put the animals out of their misery. Secondly, I recall a story from my home state of Michigan where a black bear attacked a bowhunter in a tree stand and he was able to kill the animal with a .32 auto that he carried with him. While your laws may vary, almost every hunter I know  carries a sidearm in case something bad happens.

 

Anyway, here are some ideas in no particular order:

 

.44 derringer: a Bond Arms derringer, capacity of 2 rounds. Low range, low accuracy, awful recoil, and incredible stopping power. Its mainly used as a last resort against bears at point blank as it is as powerful as the Rifle. 

 

Colt Vest Carry or .22 revolver: low power and a low chance to scare off predators with its report. In a combat sense, its a “better than nothing” gun, but its practical use would be to hunt small game with minimal damage to meat or hides. Also useful as a means to train the small guns and weapon cleaning skills. Would combo well with a .22 bolt rifle as well. Would literally have a 1% chance to crit a wolf and do no damage to bears or the moose.

 

Smith and Wesson Airweight: hammerless J frame revolver, lightest of all handguns as its made from titanium, good power, but recoil is awful.  5 rounds of .38 spl. 

 

 

Makarov or PPK clones: essentially a semi automatic pocket gun. A more effective weapon when it comes to fighting off timberwolf packs than the wheelguns. 8 rounds of 9mm makarov or .380 acp. 

 

Single action revolver: a gun to blur the lines of rifle and pistol. Has the best range to power ratio, but hindered by a slow rate of fire due to single action firing as well as a reloading gate mechanism, meaning reloads would take very long. If the damage system would change, this gun has the highest crit chance for deer of all pistols or could still have enough damage to cause a deer to bleed out quickly. 6 rounds of .45 long Colt or .38 long.

 

 

Revolver: essentially the current game’s revolver but beefed up a bit. It is the most well rounded and does not have a disadvantage. Higher than average stats and power. Can be used to hunt like with the single action revolver. 6 rounds of .357 mag. I personally like to shoot rabbits with the games current revolver, but I think a .357 or .38 would be too much gun for them. 

 

Glock 26 or Browning Hi Power: the best gun for protection against wolves. Stable stats and higher than average power and a low recoil. If a glock, the gun would be 12  rounds of 9mm with glow in the dark sights, while a Browning Hi power would keep in better with the Canadian theme and have a 13 round capacity of 9mm.

 

Although I don’t think it is truly necessary, it is fun to brainstorm and fantasize sometimes. What are your thoughts

[SpanishMoss]

While these ideas would work, what would adding a new gun add to the current game mechanics? The rifle is for hunting, and the revolver is for defense. There isn't really another role to fill, a new gun would just be in one of these two categories. The revolver can already be hip-fired for quick defense, which is what most of the guns you've suggest would be for.. defense. A larger mag/clip size wouldn't matter because when are you ever going to fire your 6 revolver rounds before reloading? Also several of the guns you suggested are more "modern", and that wouldn't fit the atmosphere of the game.

Edited April 10, 2022 by SpanishMoss

[Dancewithknives]

19 minutes ago, SpanishMoss said:

While these ideas would work, what would adding a new gun add to the current game mechanics? The rifle is for hunting, and the revolver is for defense. There isn't really another role to fill, a new gun would just be in one of these two categories. The revolver can already be hip-fired for quick defense, which is what most of the guns you've suggest would be for.. defense. A larger mag/clip size wouldn't matter because when are you ever going to fire your 6 revolver rounds before reloading? Also several of the guns you suggested are more "modern", and that wouldn't fit the atmosphere of the game.

I don’t necessarily disagree. I think it would be more realistic and challenging to make ammunition and firearms more complicated. It would become more of a game of using what you have vs what you want.
 

I think i posted above that, while multiple rifles would largely fill the same role, handguns could be used for a more nuanced role. 
 

The .22 is mainly for training and hunting small game. 
 

.44 is for point blank shooting and can protect you from a bear in a high risk high reward sense. 
 

the semi autos are better suited for timberwolf packs. You must just be a better shot than me, because I usually have to reload in a timberwolf attack.

 

and the single action pistol could be better suited for pistol hunting larger game. 
 

I do disagree on the idea that the guns I listed are too “Modern” for the game. Sure, it may not be what you necessarily expect, but here is the reality. 

derringers (maybe not a .44 version) and Single action revolvers are cowboy guns. 
 

The S&W 642 was debuted in 1993, the modern titanium was at least around since 2015, while the first generation of Glock 26 was 1994. 
 

The PPK and its clones have been around since WWII as well as the Browning Hi Power was produced in 1914, and the Makarov was from the soviet bloc and is a popular milsurp for how cheap it used to be.

 

 

[Catlover]

I disagree, the game has no use for more guns. As realistic as it may be, I don't want to tip the scales from survival game to FPS. @SpanishMossis right, there are only two categories and both are already filled. The point of the game is to survive in the Canadian wilderness and I wouldn't want to have too many guns in the game as surviving becomes considerably easier with a rifle alone. 

That's not to say you don't have a bad idea, no ideas are bad. It's just that imo, not everything in the game has to be realistic, and that includes the guns. I don't want every single one of our problems in game to be solved by a simple press of a trigger, I like the challenges the rifle and revolver give you. They're not perfect for everything which still adds an aspect of difficulty, especially with large game.

Again though, this is my own opinion and I can understand why you want more guns, but to me, they just wouldn't fit with the style of this game. 

[SpanishMoss]

Again, each item in this game had a distinct purpose. They're are very few items that have 2 items that preform the exact same function. What I'm trying to say is that each item should have a clear and defined role, there shouldn't be 2 items that fill the same role. This is what hinterland is going for. They make sure everything is useful in its own way. I still don't see how another firearm would add to the game.

[Dancewithknives]

14 minutes ago, Catlover said:

I disagree, the game has no use for more guns. As realistic as it may be, I don't want to tip the scales from survival game to FPS. @SpanishMossis right, there are only two categories and both are already filled. The point of the game is to survive in the Canadian wilderness and I wouldn't want to have too many guns in the game as surviving becomes considerably easier with a rifle alone. 

That's not to say you don't have a bad idea, no ideas are bad. It's just that imo, not everything in the game has to be realistic, and that includes the guns. I don't want every single one of our problems in game to be solved by a simple press of a trigger, I like the challenges the rifle and revolver give you. They're not perfect for everything which still adds an aspect of difficulty, especially with large game.

Again though, this is my own opinion and I can understand why you want more guns, but to me, they just wouldn't fit with the style of this game. 

What gets me is the fact that every time you get a rifle round, it goes for the rifle, and every pistol round goes for the pistol. I understand that for rifles it makes sense because most rifles would function largely the same (only relying on bolt guns). But there is a more defined role that pistols could take. There is overlap on the functionality, but each would work better in certain situations than others. It would also break up the surplus of pistol rounds you come across, instead of having 60 rounds and one gun, you would have 60 rounds total of 5 ammunition types for 4 pistols.   

[Catlover]

1 minute ago, Dancewithknives said:

What gets me is the fact that every time you get a rifle round, it goes for the rifle, and every pistol round goes for the pistol. I understand that for rifles it makes sense because most rifles would function largely the same (only relying on bolt guns). But there is a more defined role that pistols could take. There is overlap on the functionality, but each would work better in certain situations than others. It would also break up the surplus of pistol rounds you come across, instead of having 60 rounds and one gun, you would have 60 rounds total of 5 ammunition types for 4 pistols.   

I get that ,however why complicate a system that many players find works pretty well? More guns is a common request, however many players, including myself, simply don't see the point in adding more. The game is not made to be a hyper realistic survival game,and I don't want it to become a bit of a shooter. I imagine this will be a mod one day, which would be cool, however I'm not a fan of it being added to the game. In my opinion it would overcomplicate a system that works fine for the game and has done for a while. 

That being said, I do see where you're coming from, I just don't think that more guns is something a game like TLD really needs

[Dancewithknives]

25 minutes ago, SpanishMoss said:

Again, each item in this game had a distinct purpose. They're are very few items that have 2 items that preform the exact same function. What I'm trying to say is that each item should have a clear and defined role, there shouldn't be 2 items that fill the same role. This is what hinterland is going for. They make sure everything is useful in its own way. I still don't see how another firearm would add to the game.

I mean, they wouldn’t cover the same function, there would be overlaps on functionality but would specialize in certain areas, much like how the sharp cutting tools all perform near the same thing but do some things better than others with the hacksaw having an exclusive trait. 

 

also, regardless of pistols, I do think a bolt action .22 lr should be added to the game anyway.

[Catlover]

6 minutes ago, Dancewithknives said:

I mean, they wouldn’t cover the same function, there would be overlaps on functionality but would specialize in certain areas, much like how the sharp cutting tools all perform near the same thing but do some things better than others with the hacksaw having an exclusive trait. 

 

also, regardless of pistols, I do think a bolt action .22 lr should be added to the game anyway.

I believe there are plenty of hunting simulators if you wanted gun realism, however I doubt that's something you'll see added to the game. 

And I disagree, the sharp items do things differently with the exception of cutting meat. The knife is for cloth, pillows, etc, the hatchet for saplings, bookcases, larger furniture, and the hacksaw for metal objects. Every necessity has been filled with that, without adding different types of hatches, hacksaws, with the exception of course of improvised ones. I don't personally see why guns would be any different. 

[Dancewithknives]

@Catlover

I mean, I don’t think it works “well”, I think it just works, albeit I think its far too simple. 
 

Also, are you sure the game isn’t trying to be a realistic survival simm? I mean, sure, take some liberties and whatnot, but I think its probably the best one on the market currently. 

[Catlover]

Just now, Dancewithknives said:

@Catlover

I mean, I don’t think it works “well”, I think it just works, albeit I think its far too simple. 
 

Also, are you sure the game isn’t trying to be a realistic survival simm? I mean, sure, take some liberties and whatnot, but I think its probably the best one on the market currently. 

Yes it is trying to be realistic, though it's not hyper-realistic and true to real life. It simplifies a lot of things like hunger, first aid, guns, but that's why I like it. I like how it's pretty simple in regards to the hatchets, knives, etc. That's how it has worked for a long time, same with the guns. Why fix what isn't broken? Nothing wrong with simplifying things every once in a while.

This is my opinion though, I wouldn't be against adding other items like axes and whatnot, I would just feel like having a gun for every wildlife challenge takes away the struggle of survival by a lot. 

[Catlover]

That being said, I don't mean to cause a debate. We clearly have different opinions and I respect that. I always like seeing new ideas here, even if I may not agree with them sometimes. Shall we agree to disagree?

[Dancewithknives]

13 minutes ago, Catlover said:

Yes it is trying to be realistic, though it's not hyper-realistic and true to real life. It simplifies a lot of things like hunger, first aid, guns, but that's why I like it. I like how it's pretty simple in regards to the hatchets, knives, etc. That's how it has worked for a long time, same with the guns. Why fix what isn't broken? Nothing wrong with simplifying things every once in a while.

This is my opinion though, I wouldn't be against adding other items like axes and whatnot, I would just feel like having a gun for every wildlife challenge takes away the struggle of survival by a lot. 

I think they try to be as real as possible without being gimmicky and patronizing (imagine QTE’s for eating dog food or fighting a moose while trying to take a piss). Its probably the most complicated game I’ve played besides maybe Escape from Tarkov, but thats beside the point. 
 

i think the underlying issue here is that the wildlife health system needs to be updated, because if I remember from my last long survival playthrough and read in the wiki, the only reason to use the rifle was because you either needed to crit a bear or you didn’t have access to a pistol. 

Also, the current range on guns is pathetic. 

[Kranium]

I would love to have more realism in this game, for sure, but even as a firearms enthusiast IRL, I'd rank doing more with guns in this game very low on my list of things to improve.

[Leo Sky]

My only thing is that handguns aren’t that common in Canada. In most places their usually illegal or difficult to get. (In my experience) I live in a fairly rural part of western Canada and the only handguns I see are on cops, but it could just be the area I live in.

[Carbon]

As Leo said, handguns are terribly rare in Canada and as this relates to realism, then the revolver is already a stretch in this regard. It's not outside of the realm of possibility, as the locale is rural, so a few folks might have one squirreled away, but again, very rarely.

If I recall from a similar discussion long ago when the revolver was first added, the devs didn't want this to turn into a shooter of any kind; the firearms were supposed to be less than ideal, only semi-useful and I think that adding more variety would go against this notion.

A personal opinion: guns generally seem to violate an unspoken theme in TLD, one of a quiet struggle. Guns are obnoxious and put a stake in the 'brains over brawn' notion that seems to pervade TLD. There is violence in the game, but it doesn't seem brutal or unfair, something I feel every firearm kill exemplifies.

Edited April 11, 2022 by Carbon

[APixelatedLemon]

I believe the focus should be on adding more wildlife long before we should even consider adding more 'proper' firearms.

As it stands we have only seen two new animals get added to the game since release, the moose and the timber wolves, and timber wolves are just a a variant of normal wolves so more like 1 and a half new animals. Animals that can still be added include foxes, beavers, ducks, geese, cougars, brown bears, polar bears, elk, caribou, bison, bighorn sheep, pronghorn sheep.

The reason as to why I think animals should come before new firearms is because as it stands the current firearms are enough to hunt (Or defend yourself) any animal in the game, but if more animals were added that I could see the benefit of having more guns. Example: huntable birds (ducks) are added, so a shotgun would make sense to be added since hunting ducks without a shotgun is next to impossible unless they landed. 

[piddy3825]

I'd really have to agree with both @Leo Sky and @Carbon on their assessements.
Canadians don't typically own a lot of handguns.  Hunting rifles and shotguns, yes but not many hand cannons.

But if you really want more guns, you should probably just put that into a mod request, cause honestly that's the only way your wish will come true... 

[Dancewithknives]

From what i just looked up online, 3% of Canadian households own handguns, which is about 1 in 33 people (for comparison, the same study found 18% of American households have handguns). Being that Great Bear is an island with dense and dangerous wildlife and almost no police presence, i don’t find it too hard to believe that there would be more people owning handguns there for when things go to shit. The Mounties are still issued Lee Enfields to deal with Polar Bears, but your sidearm is there to get you back to your rifle.

 

Also, adding more handguns isn’t the top priority in things I would change to the game. I don’t see why people keep bringing that up. 

[Grignard_TN]

I would like to see a shotgun added. If they're going to add more firearms a shotgun is the next logical choice. It would fill a niche that isn't already covered. It would allow for bird hunting which would be a neat new activity in the game.

[Pablo_Loko]

I will not give a large number of arguments against this idea. I will ask just one question. Why make a Counter-Strike out of TLD?

[Dancewithknives]

5 hours ago, Pablo_Loko said:

I will not give a large number of arguments against this idea. I will ask just one question. Why make a Counter-Strike out of TLD?

Because its not?

[Kranium]

On 4/11/2022 at 7:10 PM, Dancewithknives said:

From what i just looked up online, 3% of Canadian households own handguns, which is about 1 in 33 people (for comparison, the same study found 18% of American households have handguns). Being that Great Bear is an island with dense and dangerous wildlife and almost no police presence, i don’t find it too hard to believe that there would be more people owning handguns there for when things go to shit. The Mounties are still issued Lee Enfields to deal with Polar Bears, but your sidearm is there to get you back to your rifle.

 

Also, adding more handguns isn’t the top priority in things I would change to the game. I don’t see why people keep bringing that up. 

Exactly this.

The reason you don't actually see many handguns in Canada is that they're classified as "Restricted", which basically means you need a Restricted license (which is another class + test you have to take, after the Regular one for Non-Restricted [eg. for hunting guns] - and even then the only place you are allowed to use a Restricted firearm is at an official gun range. So, outside of law enforcement, the only places you'll see a handgun IRL in Canada is at a gun store or gun range.

 

Source: I live in very rural BC, own 3 handguns

[piddy3825]

2 minutes ago, Kranium said:

Exactly this.

The reason you don't actually see many handguns in Canada is that they're classified as "Restricted", which basically means you need a Restricted license (which is another class + test you have to take, after the Regular one for Non-Restricted [eg. for hunting guns] - and even then the only place you are allowed to use a Restricted firearm is at an official gun range. So, outside of law enforcement, the only places you'll see a handgun IRL in Canada is at a gun store or gun range.

 

Source: I live in very rural BC, own 3 handguns

Given the restrictions and overall "scarcity" of handguns in Canada,
I'm curious if you had to bug out for anyreason, would be leaving any of the three handguns you own behind?

I'd argue that given the games circumstances regarding the economic collapse and subsequent decline in the islands population as folks moved away, they probably
would not be leaving any of their coveted handguns behind.  Especially not the kind that OP refers to in his post, am I right?

[Kranium]

Regarding the OP, I don't think this game needs more guns, what's there now is perfectly fine. (just to be clear on my position there)

 

I've already had to abandon ship twice, due to forest fire. But that's not a "grab the guns!" situation. Otherwise, I'm bugging in. But if I lived elsewhere and had to do that sorta thing, I'd bring my 12ga shotgun since it's the most versatile (birdshot/buckshot/slug). Some consideration for my takedown .22, due to pack size & ammo:weight ratio. I'd also bring 1 handgun (probably my Glock) but only because it's so small and trivial to carry in a holster.

 

If people had to leave in a hurry, they wouldn't be dragging their entire armoury along with them, IMHO. So it makes sense to find some in-game. Shotguns are more common than handguns, though, as they're ubiquitous for defending oneself & farm out here, even ignoring hunting & sport shooting. If it would have been up to me, it would be a shotty rather than a revolver in the game. I'd have made the ammo more scarce & non-reloadable (like the flare gun) so it wouldn't be too overpowered. You can reload shotgun ammo, but it's not as common in my experience. And don't forget the bear spray!

 

🙂