Stop the 'survival not camping' please!

[hozz1235]

Hey @Catlover, I'm catching the gist of this thread, but I'm unfamiliar with the use of that phrase - would you mind including some links to threads that have used it so I can put this in context?  Thanks.

Regarding mods, players choosing difficulty levels, playstyles, etc., I've been a staunch supporter of mods, but more importantly, letting people choose to play the game the way they want.  It's about having fun, right??  You have to feel sorry for those who sit and pass judgement on others because that don't play the game the way they do.

Mod on!!

[Catlover]

24 minutes ago, hozz1235 said:

Hey @Catlover, I'm catching the gist of this thread, but I'm unfamiliar with the use of that phrase - would you mind including some links to threads that have used it so I can put this in context?  Thanks.

Regarding mods, players choosing difficulty levels, playstyles, etc., I've been a staunch supporter of mods, but more importantly, letting people choose to play the game the way they want.  It's about having fun, right??  You have to feel sorry for those who sit and pass judgement on others because that don't play the game the way they do.

Mod on!!

Yeah of course! I'll edit this thread in a moment when I've found some quotes

[Catlover]

On 3/2/2022 at 4:14 AM, The Lord of the Long Dark said:

Nope too all of them. 
 The lantern is a candle. Also developers know that you want to limit the mechanics for being able to read at night without needing fuel. This is a survival game not a camping game. 
  You can’t grow stuff in subarctic conditions period.

   A bike. In feet of snow?   Smh. 
 

  The lack of seasons is what makes the game a challenge. If they do seasons the game would be way too easy. It’s also unnecessary anyway. by the time a season change occurred a player already has resources established. It should be opposite- game should get stormier and colder over time. 
  And finally no pets. In a survival situation you eat your pets, not train them.  Plus the loneliness is part of survival. Those who are too weak to survive without a companion are first to die in a survival situation.  
Survival game. Not camping. 

 

On 11/8/2021 at 8:47 PM, Lord of the Long Dark said:

Ummm - nah. In a real survival situation you don’t develop photos in a dark room.  I want scraps of meat and fat, not a scrapbook. Any solvents and photo materials would be used for fuel, not nostalgia.
  Survival game, not camping game. 

 

On 11/5/2021 at 5:06 AM, Lord of the Long Dark said:

Deadman.  If you aren’t playing at least at interloper level you are camping, not surviving. 

 

On 3/8/2022 at 2:21 PM, Ghurcb said:

I don't think it would fit the tone of TLD. Raph describes it as "vulnerability fantasy", and clean cozy home really goes against this description.

The way I see it, every building can be your shelter or base, but none of them can become a home. In the harsh uncaring world of the long dark the feeling of safety and comfort is only temporary. It can only exist in contrast to slowly walking against the blizzard as hypothermia takes over.

Most of house furniture can either be used for storage or broken apart. What a nice armchair, it would be a shame if you had to destroy it just to boil some water...

This game is about survival, not camping.

Wouldn't let me edit the post though @hozz1235, there you are. There are many more quotes, and though many of these these are less recent (and by a certain player in particular), the phrase has recently gained popularity again, hence why I made this thread. Figured I'd try find a couple of the more rude ones too, see quote 3 for an example, just to show that it has indeed turned into an offensive phrase, used mainly by loperists who think they're better than everyone else. 

Other people have quoted this saying too, I recommend using the search option if you wish to see more examples, but I hope this kind of shows my point

And if you want to see the actual threads for more context , as you probably know you can just tap (or click) on the arrow thing and it should take you there

 

Edited March 18, 2022 by Catlover

[hozz1235]

On 3/18/2022 at 11:14 AM, Catlover said:

 

 

 

Wouldn't let me edit the post though @hozz1235, there you are. There are many more quotes, and though many of these these are less recent (and by a certain player in particular), the phrase has recently gained popularity again, hence why I made this thread. Figured I'd try find a couple of the more rude ones too, see quote 3 for an example, just to show that it has indeed turned into an offensive phrase, used mainly by loperists who think they're better than everyone else. 

Other people have quoted this saying too, I recommend using the search option if you wish to see more examples, but I hope this kind of shows my point

And if you want to see the actual threads for more context , as you probably know you can just tap (or click) on the arrow thing and it should take you there

 

Oh yeah, @Lord of the Long Dark is a notorious troll.  I just ignore him.

[Catlover]

Just now, hozz1235 said:

Oh yeah, @Lord of the Long Dark is a notorious troll.  I just ignore him.

As do I. Though I've noticed more players, not just him, starting to use it. Not many, fortunately, but I was worried that it would become a more used phrase as time went on, as its really not particularly polite

[hozz1235]

2 hours ago, Catlover said:

As do I. Though I've noticed more players, not just him, starting to use it. Not many, fortunately, but I was worried that it would become a more used phrase as time went on, as its really not particularly polite

Agreed.

[JMK]

I don't see how you see people summerazing TLD phylosophy (survival not camping) as insulting or unpolite.

Hinterworks has made choices that makes this game what it is and unlike many others, "survival not camping" is just a way to remind what TLD is about.

And I see opinions sustained in the exemple provided which you can hardly call trolling. A troll doesn't bother to sustain anything, his purpose is to make you waste time, not him.

 

[Catlover]

1 hour ago, JMK said:

I don't see how you see people summerazing TLD phylosophy (survival not camping) as insulting or unpolite.

Hinterworks has made choices that makes this game what it is and unlike many others, "survival not camping" is just a way to remind what TLD is about.

And I see opinions sustained in the exemple provided which you can hardly call trolling. A troll doesn't bother to sustain anything, his purpose is to make you waste time, not him.

I can see your point, though I politely disagree. 

It is not the phrase that is impolite, it is the way its used. Yes, it might technically be a survival game, but it (the phrase) is now used to put other players, and their ideas down. Just because they aren't hardcore survival loperists. If it were just used harmlessly, this thread would not exist. 

I see no issue with the term if it is used like how you said, just to remind others of what it's about, but, like many things, it's the context that then can make it offensive. 

Maybe not offensive, thinking about it, but it's certainly not polite. Though my examples were not of trolls, is that behaviour really acceptable in this community? Does them not being trolls make them any less impolite?

And I apologise if this sounds rude, I do respect and understand your views and I hope you can do the same with mine

Edited April 2, 2022 by Catlover
Added stuff to it

[JMK]

On 3/18/2022 at 6:14 PM, Catlover said:

I don't think it would fit the tone of TLD. Raph describes it as "vulnerability fantasy", and clean cozy home really goes against this description.

The way I see it, every building can be your shelter or base, but none of them can become a home. In the harsh uncaring world of the long dark the feeling of safety and comfort is only temporary. It can only exist in contrast to slowly walking against the blizzard as hypothermia takes over.

Most of house furniture can either be used for storage or broken apart. What a nice armchair, it would be a shame if you had to destroy it just to boil some water...

This game is about survival, not camping.

In the exemple above that you provided yourself, I see absolutely nothing to be offended about.

And frankly, I see nothing in all your exemples.

Sometimes, opinions are a bit harsh, ok, so what ? As long as it is sustained by comprehensives points.

We're not supposed to be experts on communications are we ? Eventually, answering positively to something a bit too agressive may help the poster adjust his message 😉 After all, he wants to be heard, not rejected because of poor words choices

[Catlover]

24 minutes ago, JMK said:

In the exemple above that you provided yourself, I see absolutely nothing to be offended about.

And frankly, I see nothing in all your exemples.

I completely agree, nothing was wrong with that post I had quoted. I was giving examples to another member to provide context and the fact other players have been recently using it. 

I did mention, if I remember correctly, about how that post was not offensive. I didn't want to fill the thread with just one person using said phrase. And surely there is a nicer way to sharing an opinion. That said, I do agree and admit there was little point adding in that quote. I stand corrected on that front 🙂 

24 minutes ago, JMK said:

 

24 minutes ago, JMK said:

Sometimes, opinions are a bit harsh, ok, so what ? As long as it is sustained by comprehensives points

 

(not sure why the quote thing went a bit weird) 

This however, I disagree on. There is a different between a little harsh and being downright impolite. If people disagree, they can do so in a politer manner, not just 'it doesn't make the game harder, therefore it's bad', like I'm sure you've seen. If you say something offensive or harsh but it's sustained by some sort of point, that doesn't automatically make it ok.

I can understand your points, and agree with some, however it's clearthat neither one of us will agree with each others opinions and that's fine, of course. Everyone has different opinions, though I feel that it's best that we agree to disagree. 

Edit, after all, I've not seen anyone use the phrase in a long time so I see no point in wasting each others time debating about this. 
 

Edited April 2, 2022 by Catlover

[manolitode]

I think most agree that politeness and constructive feedback is both admirable and preferable. Though, striving for "no arguing" is in my opinion a dead end that tend to choke healthy discussions. Disagreement and even conflict can be healthy, disparaging comments can't. From my experience, forum members who do the latter tend to get reprimanded by the community. I know that the "no arguing" urging comes from a good place but there are no forums or groups anywhere that are pure and free from disagreement and sometimes harshness.

Edited April 2, 2022 by manolitode

[Catlover]

1 hour ago, manolitode said:

I think most agree that politeness and constructive feedback is both admirable and preferable. Though, striving for "no arguing" is in my opinion a dead end that tend to choke healthy discussions. Disagreement and even conflict can be healthy, disparaging comments can't. From my experience, forum members who do the latter tend to get reprimanded by the community. I know that the "no arguing" urging comes from a good place but there are no forums or groups anywhere that are pure and free from disagreement and sometimes harshness.

That is true. I just wish it was possible to discuss differences in a less hurtful way though you do have a very good point. 

Perhaps locking this thread would be a good idea as the phrase I was mentioning has not been used for a while, and I don't want to argue over something (survival not camping) which is now rather pointless 

Edited April 2, 2022 by Catlover

[JMK]

1 hour ago, manolitode said:

Disagreement and even conflict can be healthy

Yup, can be.

44 minutes ago, Catlover said:

I have to just remember that this isn't a perfect world

Hmmm, what would define a "perfect" world ? 😁 (just kidding, don't even try, world is that's it end of story, perfection has no meaning in itself, perfection is limited to a context)

About discussion, it is interesting to read  "The art of beeing right" by Arthur Shopenhauer, the preliminary expose the necessity and healthiness of challenging ideas (the bright side of rethoric), and how it is distorded in tricks to have your opinion prevail at all cost (the dark side). Available for free in PDF, public domain, not too long and it really help identify tricks that politicians are very keen on lol (like claiming victory when you lose)

Allright, back to blackrock now 😉

 

[Catlover]

2 minutes ago, JMK said:

Yup, can be.

Hmmm, what would define a "perfect" world ? 😁 (just kidding, don't even try, world is that's it end of story, perfection has no meaning in itself, perfection is limited to a context)

About discussion, it is interesting to read  "The art of beeing right" by Arthur Shopenhauer, the preliminary expose the necessity and healthiness of challenging ideas (the bright side of rethoric), and how it is distorded in tricks to have your opinion prevail at all cost (the dark side). Available for free in PDF, public domain, not too long and it really help identify tricks that politicians are very keen on lol (like claiming victory when you lose)

Allright, back to blackrock now 😉

 

Have fun! Still trying to navigate that place myself, I'll admit 

And thanks for the recommendation, I'll check it out!

[piddy3825]

I don't just survive...
I camp out and thrive!"

sure, there's a bed one level down, but isn't this just way better?
Brought to you by DIY crafting mods.  Guaranteed to make your game play more fun!  Not necessarily easier, but more fun!

 

 

[Leeanda]

14 minutes ago, piddy3825 said:

I don't just survive...
I camp out and thrive!"

sure, there's a bed one level down, but isn't this just way better?
Brought to you by DIY crafting mods.  Guaranteed to make your game play more fun!  Not necessarily easier, but more fun!

 

 

That looks great🙂 black satin pillows too, very cosy👍 

You're right! It's not going to stop you getting mauled or freezing to death the minute you go outside.

[ChillPlayer]

What's wrong with camping? Asking for a friend.

[Catlover]

13 minutes ago, ChillPlayer said:

What's wrong with camping? Asking for a friend.

Nothings wrong with camping! That’s often quite a fun way to play tld, and a fun thing to do irl 🙂

[ChillPlayer]

6 hours ago, Catlover said:

Nothings wrong with camping! That’s often quite a fun way to play tld, and a fun thing to do irl 🙂

Yes I think so too - and anyone claming that survival is harder than camping, cleary has never been camping with two or more kids for several weeks

[Catlover]

22 minutes ago, ChillPlayer said:

Yes I think so too - and anyone claming that survival is harder than camping, cleary has never been camping with two or more kids for several weeks

Haha never tried that, by the sounds of it, not sure if I want to!  Completely agree though

[UpUpAway95]

On 4/2/2022 at 6:30 AM, JMK said:

I don't see how you see people summerazing TLD phylosophy (survival not camping) as insulting or unpolite.

Hinterworks has made choices that makes this game what it is and unlike many others, "survival not camping" is just a way to remind what TLD is about.

And I see opinions sustained in the exemple provided which you can hardly call trolling. A troll doesn't bother to sustain anything, his purpose is to make you waste time, not him.

 

I disagree that TLD philosophy has to be all about "survival" and "not camping."   For some it is, but this game is flexible enough at its core that it can be all about "camping" and still be enjoyable by a wide variety of players.  Raph himself said that he was designing the game to enable the player to make "thoughtful decisions."  In the intro, the game is stated to be about "adapting."

PS:  To  the OP and others, please relax as this is only post I intend to make on this thread... no arguments from me this day. 😀

[Catlover]

11 minutes ago, UpUpAway95 said:

I disagree that TLD philosophy has to be all about "survival" and "not camping."   For some it is, but this game is flexible enough at its core that it can be all about "camping" and still be enjoyable by a wide variety of players.  Raph himself said that he was designing the game to enable the player to make "thoughtful decisions."  In the intro, the game is stated to be about "adapting."

PS:  To  the OP and others, please relax as this is only post I intend to make on this thread... no arguments from me this day. 😀

Well said and I completely agree. It's like a bit of a mix between surviving and camping

And don't worry, there are no arguments about that from me 🙂

[James Hickok]

No one should be antagonized by the way they play any game period. But by my exp playing TLD on Pilgrim or Voyager is not as fun as looper simply bcoz the game is so easy it gets boring because there is no challenge in it what so ever. My first run was Voyager only to learn the maps before i go into looper. I played for 250 days and at the end of the run i had so many guns, ammo, clothes and other items that there was no point playing longer, no actual challenge. I could literally cross the world without starting a single fire (unless blizzard hit).

Looper tho is fun fun fun and scary sometimes so many things can happen and when u feel comfortable the game will want to kill you and by the time you know it ur in trouble (most recent close to death: day 481 i accidentally eat rancid uncoocked wolf meat and got food poisoning and parasites which is bad on looper and it demands 20 days of curing with reishi or antibiotics with ur health and stamina going lower each day to a point you cant climb or travel longer distances, didnt have any reishi on me or biotics and was in desolation point with reishi harvested in almost all of the regions stored in main base 3 zones apart + blizzard hit - managed it by a thread) and that is exciting.

I encourage all players to try looper but if you like playing Pilgrim is ur choice and its fine.

Personally im starting a N.O.G.O.A.(basically super hard looper mode with no health regeneration) run for even greater challenge.

[Catlover]

9 minutes ago, James Hickok said:

No one should be antagonized by the way they play any game period. But by my exp playing TLD on Pilgrim or Voyager is not as fun as looper simply bcoz the game is so easy it gets boring because there is no challenge in it what so ever. My first run was Voyager only to learn the maps before i go into looper. I played for 250 days and at the end of the run i had so many guns, ammo, clothes and other items that there was no point playing longer, no actual challenge. I could literally cross the world without starting a single fire (unless blizzard hit).

Looper tho is fun fun fun and scary sometimes so many things can happen and when u feel comfortable the game will want to kill you and by the time you know it ur in trouble (most recent close to death: day 481 i accidentally eat rancid uncoocked wolf meat and got food poisoning and parasites which is bad on looper and it demands 20 days of curing with reishi or antibiotics with ur health and stamina going lower each day to a point you cant climb or travel longer distances, didnt have any reishi on me or biotics and was in desolation point with reishi harvested in almost all of the regions stored in main base 3 zones apart + blizzard hit - managed it by a thread) and that is exciting.

I encourage all players to try looper but if you like playing Pilgrim is ur choice and its fine.

Personally im starting a N.O.G.O.A.(basically super hard looper mode with no health regeneration) run for even greater challenge.

I too prefer the higher difficulties for that reason, I simply don't find the others as challenging. But everyone has different preferences, and that's why I like this community. Everyone likes playing the game a little different, which sparks so many discussions. The game is to be played however you want, and though I don't like pilgrim, I know many players who do. 

And I'm sorry about that death, eating raw meat always sucks. Good luck with NOGOA, heard that's really tough! 

 

[UpUpAway95]

6 hours ago, James Hickok said:

No one should be antagonized by the way they play any game period. But by my exp playing TLD on Pilgrim or Voyager is not as fun as looper simply bcoz the game is so easy it gets boring because there is no challenge in it what so ever. My first run was Voyager only to learn the maps before i go into looper. I played for 250 days and at the end of the run i had so many guns, ammo, clothes and other items that there was no point playing longer, no actual challenge. I could literally cross the world without starting a single fire (unless blizzard hit).

Looper tho is fun fun fun and scary sometimes so many things can happen and when u feel comfortable the game will want to kill you and by the time you know it ur in trouble (most recent close to death: day 481 i accidentally eat rancid uncoocked wolf meat and got food poisoning and parasites which is bad on looper and it demands 20 days of curing with reishi or antibiotics with ur health and stamina going lower each day to a point you cant climb or travel longer distances, didnt have any reishi on me or biotics and was in desolation point with reishi harvested in almost all of the regions stored in main base 3 zones apart + blizzard hit - managed it by a thread) and that is exciting.

I encourage all players to try looper but if you like playing Pilgrim is ur choice and its fine.

Personally im starting a N.O.G.O.A.(basically super hard looper mode with no health regeneration) run for even greater challenge.

See - That's why I've said for ages that Custom is the way to go.  If the standard difficulties are "enough" for people, that's great for them and even lopers wanting an even greater challenge can tweak their games by going to runs like N.O.G.O.A.  The fallacy here used to be that people kept stating that Loper is the highest difficulty in TLD.  The truth is that any difficulty can be made more challenging or more interesting in a wide variety of ways through the Custom menu.  Any difficulty that seems too daunting for individual players can also be tweaked in ways that enables them to at least try it out.  All those codes can be shared with friends for personalized competitions (like the recent All Your Bases tournament). 

I would love to see HL expand the Custom menu further to give us even more variety.  (Rhetorical and facetiious slogan - no offense intended:  If you're not Customizing, you're just Loping.)

Edited April 8, 2022 by UpUpAway95