“Mountain Goating” feels like it cheapens the game

[Blindsp t]

Do you guys think it’s kind of dumb that almost every single rope climb can essentially be bypassed if going down? It kind of cheapens the experience that we can do some crazy acrobatics down elevations in this game with perhaps only some sprains as a result when the game tries very hard to aim for stylized realism. 
 

And sure, you could play the game as though you couldn’t do this, but really I think anyone would do this strategy if the time and energy savings were worth it especially if the save was at risk.

 

Would be nice if these cliffs were much steeper or possibly if landing on rocks that are not flat on top made you lose control as if slipping on ice.

[Sito]

I think goating is quite ok due to the risk involved. There is always a trade off in TLD with what decision you make. I seldom goat because it makes my heart rate go through the roof, but there are some places where it is advantageous to do so. Normally I will just go down the rope then rest and go up again to get more stuff, for example when looting TWM summit. I think it is one of those things that is a player choice and I don't see anyone supporting less choice in TLD which is built in to the permadeath feature of the game. Wrong choice and you die. Goat down and sprain everything and tear your clothes up then get wolfed and a blizzard hits.  

[piddy3825]

I'd have to agree with @Sito that "goating" down should be okay as long as the player does take the risk of incurring some damage.  Especially  in those cases that they have misjudge the distances between ledges.  And I also agree that the fall should injure them quite badly in the process.  
Now, there are some slopes where the terrain is practically vertical and my characters Spiderman ability to stay stuck to the side is kinda questionable, but maybe it's those crampons doing their job?   Typically when I goat down hill, I am only able to descend by traversing the cliff face in a zig zag pattern. 
If I tried going straight down, I would fall for sure. 
On the other hand, I spend a bit of time considering my route before I just go over the side willy nilly. 

I think maybe a better wish, would be being able to free climb up mountain goat style!
Let's put those crampons to good use!

 

[Pınar51-06]

I love goating down esp. in TWM but sometimes it’s very dangerous. I faded the long dark ın ravine and BI when goating so ıt really gives me heart attack. 
Also ı fully support @piddy3825 crampon idea! Crampons should be more functional.

[UpUpAway95]

I have to go with the others on this.  Goating down is fine.  The player assumes the risk - everything from a sprain to death.  If the player doesn't really know the maps, attempting to goat in the wrong spots can easily get you into a situation where you're stuck with no way up or down and death from exposure becomes inevitable.  It's a realistic outcome based on the player's knowledge of the maps and their ability to read the terrain.  What I'd really like to see is also a free climbing mechanic so we could goat up more effectively as well (at the expense of a ton of energy and calories with a high risk of falling, of course).

[piddy3825]

1 minute ago, UpUpAway95 said:

What I'd really like to see is also a free climbing mechanic so we could goat up more effectively as well (at the expense of a ton of energy and calories with a high risk of falling, of course).

well said!

[Leeanda]

Considering the mechanic's are there for climbing up already, I don't see why we can't use it for longer climbs. 

I have to admit I do goat sometimes but usually not from very high places. Then it's usually quicker to use the rope I find ,especially with crampons on.

[Blindsp t]

I dunno, maybe it’s me but the risk seems incredibly minimal and going down these ways seems kind of ridiculous from any kind of realism.

[UpUpAway95]

13 minutes ago, Blindsp t said:

I dunno, maybe it’s me but the risk seems incredibly minimal and going down these ways seems kind of ridiculous from any kind of realism.

Well, realistically, there just aren't convenient ropes hanging from conveniently shaped "deploy" rocks at every point a person may want to climb or descend... nor do they conveniently find ropes of exactly the right length to deploy at the few points where ropes are not already deployed.  What would be most realistic is to not have the ropes anywhere and the terrain be designed to have "goat paths" that enable the player to climb or descend to any point they need to be.  The ropes, like a lot of other things in this game, are a game mechanic... just as several of the popular goat paths down.  You can't tell me that the goat path down from Miner's Folly to Angler's Den has not been put into the game "by design."

[Sito]

21 hours ago, UpUpAway95 said:

You can't tell me that the goat path down from Miner's Folly to Angler's Den has not been put into the game "by design."

Exactly! ^^

[Pınar51-06]

On 2/5/2022 at 7:34 AM, UpUpAway95 said:

 You can't tell me that the goat path down from Miner's Folly to Angler's Den has not been put into the game "by design."

Whoaa, can we goat down from Miner’s Folly to Angler’s Den? I never tried that long. Now ı am curious can we goat down from Wolf’s Jaw overlook?

[UpUpAway95]

1 hour ago, Pınar51-06 said:

Whoaa, can we goat down from Miner’s Folly to Angler’s Den? I never tried that long. Now ı am curious can we goat down from Wolf’s Jaw overlook?

Yes, although the goat down from Wolf's Jaw is significantly more intimidating and is quite a bit longer and convoluted than the goat from Miner's Folly.  I'm surprised you've never taken the Miner's Folly goat... it's obvious from the top where to go and is very straightforward right to the bottom.  My point was that the devs have designed the game world to offer the player a variety of thoughtful choices.  Taking an available goat vs. taking a rope is a realistic choice for them to offer the player... and it saves them cluttering up the world with a ton more ropes or more "climbing vines."  Some will choose to take the ropes and ferry supplies over many trips up and down and others will choose to take the goats and only make one trip.  They base that choice by assessing their own circumstances... and that's as it should be.

ETA:  If my replay seems to ramble a bit off point... it's because I mistook you for the OP.  Sorry.

Edited February 6, 2022 by UpUpAway95

[Pınar51-06]

2 hours ago, UpUpAway95 said:

Yes, although the goat down from Wolf's Jaw is significantly more intimidating and is quite a bit longer and convoluted than the goat from Miner's Folly.  I'm surprised you've never taken the Miner's Folly goat... it's obvious from the top where to go and is very straightforward right to the bottom.  My point was that the devs have designed the game world to offer the player a variety of thoughtful choices.  Taking an available goat vs. taking a rope is a realistic choice for them to offer the player... and it saves them cluttering up the world with a ton more ropes or more "climbing vines."  Some will choose to take the ropes and ferry supplies over many trips up and down and others will choose to take the goats and only make one trip.  They base that choice by assessing their own circumstances... and that's as it should be.

ETA:  If my replay seems to ramble a bit off point... it's because I mistook you for the OP.  Sorry.

Thanks a lot for your answering. I will definitely goat down from Miners Folly next time.😄

And ı like devs give us two option, we can have a one way trip by goating down or multiple trips by climbing rope. Always take first option, ıt’s risky and ı died so many times but ı like goating down anyway.

[odizzido]

I think not being able to walk over a 2cm snow drift or walk through a tiny bush cheapens the game too. Honestly I would rather keep the mountain goating as at least one mobility option for our character. If we had the ability to climb and move like a normal human that would be best but given the option of nothing or goating I prefer goating.

[Mig_zvm]

I think the goating in TLD is very satisfying and nowhere even close to the game breaking mechanics in Skyrim.

[Kranium]

On 2/6/2022 at 10:13 AM, odizzido said:

I think not being able to walk over a 2cm snow drift or walk through a tiny bush cheapens the game too. Honestly I would rather keep the mountain goating as at least one mobility option for our character. If we had the ability to climb and move like a normal human that would be best but given the option of nothing or goating I prefer goating.

This is me, as well.

 

I wish we could climb. I scramble IRL quite often (I live in rural BC, in the mountains) so the things this game deems "impassable" drives me insane. lol So I goat down whenever I can. Wish I could do the reverse, or at least have rope climbs not require a day's sleep to recover LOL

Edited February 8, 2022 by Kranium
added img link

[piddy3825]

1 hour ago, Kranium said:

This is me, as well.

 

I wish we could climb. I scramble IRL quite often (I live in rural BC, in the mountains) so the things this game deems "impassable" drives me insane. lol So I goat down whenever I can. Wish I could do the reverse, or at least have rope climbs not require a day's sleep to recover LOL

maybe a free climbing mod is in the works for the future!
like @odizzido said, not being able to step up is kinda lame all in itself.  

yeah, for a character who is active and walks and climbs everywhere, you'd think he/she would be in better shape!  God know's I'd have dropped a butt load of poundage on the Great Bear Island Keto Diet plan!  plus no cigarettes or booze?  man that is clean living!

[ChillPlayer]

I remember goating down the Ravine from the trainbridge to the basin when the Ravine Basin wasn't introduced yet. That was kinda cool, I felt like a true explorer

Generally I don't have an issue with it and I do it quite often. We should be able to throw down stuff anyways and if I'm too heavy to climb down the rope, I goat. The real challenge is getting up a rope and there is no goating around that, as it should be.

[Matt Lomax]

I stopped doing this after falling quite a ways in Blackrock ... Kinda got complacent and only just survived the plummet. Silly really, I didn't get to 1300 days by not being cautious. Sometimes saving a few seconds really isn't worth the risk.

[Razum]

My problem is the following: Why should goating be superior to using a rope? Ingame it's because you don't waste hunger and fatique. The question is, why do you need so much more of it when just sliding down the rope in contrast to a complex climbing act?

In my opinion the consumption of hunger and fatique should be drastically reduced.

[UpUpAway95]

23 hours ago, Razum said:

My problem is the following: Why should goating be superior to using a rope? Ingame it's because you don't waste hunger and fatique. The question is, why do you need so much more of it when just sliding down the rope in contrast to a complex climbing act?

In my opinion the consumption of hunger and fatique should be drastically reduced.

The primary function of the crampons is that it drastically reduces the consumption of energy while both climbing and descending a rope.  It also decreases the likelihood of sprains when "goating down" terrain and not using a rope.  Goating down already consumes less energy than descending a rope without crampons, but consumes about the same amount of energy when using crampons.  Why should they all of a sudden make the crampons worthless?

[Razum]

My points:
#1 Why is goating even possible? Please call me out, if you can savely stand on a wall tilted 5 degrees from vertical. With crampons maybe, but without you would just slide down. And also: you wouldn't be able to land on such terrain.

#2 Assuming goating is possible, why does goating take more calories than sliding down a rope? Did you see goats climbing around on steep walls (like a dam)? Even for them it's difficult. Why should it be less energy consuming to goat down (take fall by fall on uneven terrain). With a rope you just need to hold on to it [https://youtu.be/8p8iUWe1LjY?t=646 short research: It's called a rappel and you don't even need carabiners or other equipment than a rope, but it helps] So you don't need much energy at all to go down. This isn't really reflected in the game, but should be in my opinion.

This wouldn't make crampons worthless, as you would still have better grip upwards and save energy due to that.

 

[Bearimpaler101]

I don't like the anglers den on noninterloper 

Theres a rifle in a beam of metal just put of your reach

[RegentRelic]

You’ll notice that  the past few regions have had stepped cliffs. The only one that mainly uses the old cliffs is black rock so, that it fits in with the rest of wintermute.

[UpUpAway95]

8 hours ago, Razum said:

My points:
#1 Why is goating even possible? Please call me out, if you can savely stand on a wall tilted 5 degrees from vertical. With crampons maybe, but without you would just slide down. And also: you wouldn't be able to land on such terrain.

#2 Assuming goating is possible, why does goating take more calories than sliding down a rope? Did you see goats climbing around on steep walls (like a dam)? Even for them it's difficult. Why should it be less energy consuming to goat down (take fall by fall on uneven terrain). With a rope you just need to hold on to it [https://youtu.be/8p8iUWe1LjY?t=646 short research: It's called a rappel and you don't even need carabiners or other equipment than a rope, but it helps] So you don't need much energy at all to go down. This isn't really reflected in the game, but should be in my opinion.

This wouldn't make crampons worthless, as you would still have better grip upwards and save energy due to that.

 

Free climbing up and down very vertical cliffs without the aid of ropes is done all the time IRL (known as free soloing in its most extreme form where there isn't even a safety rope).  Even very vertical cliffs have natural indentations (hand holds and foot holds), unlike a dam.  In TLD, it is not possible to goat down the dam either.  The illusion of being able to walk down an unnaturally smooth rock face is an in-game illusion... because of the game's art style and the fact that there is no animation in game that mimics free climbing techniques (Also, keep in mind there are many unanimated actions in this game).  There are also pathways built into the game that are clearly there by intent and designed for downward travel only.  The path from Miner's Folly to the level near Angler's Den is a prime example.

@Bearimpaler101 There is also a very intentionally designed and easy "goat path" down from the High Meadow area to the rifle you mention in your post (that is just out of the player's reach when approached from underneath, but is easily obtained when the player uses said "goat path" to get to that ledge).  There is also other loot up there.  Goating is not a cheat... it's designed into the game.

Edited February 22, 2022 by UpUpAway95