Other Stuff from Real Life

[WillLong]

I understand it takes a lot of work to make this game, so this is in no way a critique. Just observations from my life in the bush.

 

A. Friction Fire, there are typically 2 types of friction fire people use in North America. I think the game could really work with this mechanic. Perhaps only Level 5 fire skill could be able to do it.

#1 is the bow drill method, which requires special parts. You need a hearth & a spindle (usually from certain woods like cedar), a bow (just a hard stick with an angle in it), a bearing block (tricky to find, but bone will work and certain stones), cordage (often breaks), and plenty of stamina. This produces an ember, or as we like to say in bushcraft, a coal. You must have a tinder bundle to turn it into fire. You normally can't get friction fire from an even moderately damp hearth & spindle.

#2 is the hand drill method, which only requires a hearth and a spindle and tinder bundle. However, the wood must be absolutely dry - I cure mine a couple of days in the sun.

B. Respawn Plants/Fungi: rosehips & reishi every 365 days, birch and maple saplings every 800 days. If the world were completely dead, then there would be no prey, and you'd be dead, too. So it's kind of illogical that the organics can't respawn.

C. Backpack Damage: Replace with Roycroft pack with a tumpline or Bedroll/Blanket Roll pack when completely broken. I've carried gear using the blanket roll pack in the past, and it works well but doesn't let you bring a lot of gear.

D. Banking Fires: You should be able to cover your embers with dirt to keep the coals going even without fuel. This does a few things. It creates charcoal that you can use as fuel, and it allows you to reignite the fire with just a tinder bundle.

E. Dakota Fire Pit: You can light fires in the wind. It requires some serious prep work, though. You've gotta dig a U shaped tunnel in the ground.

F. Ignite Fires with Electricity Arcs from the Aurora. You can light fires with electricity. Happens all the time unfortunately.

 

I guess I'll keep updating this as a go along in the game. There's stuff also stuff like like skis and snowshoes that could be added. Non-potable snow is really hilarious to me. Gather non-potable water from freshwater ice fishing holes... but really the thought that I could only make fire with a magnifying glass if I had no matches or firesteel, that's absolutely terrifying to me.

 

[manolitode]

23 minutes ago, WillLong said:

There are typically 2 types of friction fire people use in North America. I think the game could really work with this mechanic. Perhaps only Level 5 fire skill could be able to do it.

#1 is the bow drill method, which requires special parts. You need a hearth & a spindle (usually from certain woods like cedar), a bow (just a hard stick with an angle in it), a bearing block (tricky to find, but bone will work and certain stones), cordage (often breaks), and plenty of stamina. This produces an ember, or as we like to say in bushcraft, a coal. You must have a tinder bundle to turn it into fire. You normally can't get friction fire from an even moderately damp hearth & spindle.

I thought about this just yesterday, when I lost a magnifying glass after a moose merged my poor survivor's ribs with his spine. It's a decent idea in my opinion, especially that you're applying alreayd existing ingame materials such as ceder and sticks for your suggestion. I wouldn't mind seeing this implemented if it was to be a very time- and calorie-consuming activity. And as you suggest, possible only at the higher fire skills. 

24 minutes ago, WillLong said:

F. Ignite Fires with Electricity Arcs from the Aurora. You can light fires with electricity. Happens all the time unfortunately.

A sidetrack, now that you mention it, makes me wonder why we haven't seen thunder in TLD so far. Considering the volatile weather, the environment should be a hotbed for thunderstorms. 

[WillLong]

Thundersnow!

[oplli]

4 hours ago, WillLong said:

B. Respawn Plants/Fungi: rosehips & reishi every 365 days, birch and maple saplings every 800 days. If the world were completely dead, then there would be no prey, and you'd be dead, too. So it's kind of illogical that the organics can't respawn.

 

does not really makes sense we are in winter

[TiffTastic]

13 hours ago, manolitode said:

A sidetrack, now that you mention it, makes me wonder why we haven't seen thunder in TLD so far. Considering the volatile weather, the environment should be a hotbed for thunderstorms. 

You need storm dynamics that are very difficult to recreate at extreme north latitudes. You essentially need convection storms instead of storms formed by large scale forcing. To have that you need things usually like warm sectors and deep instability/moisture that just can’t happen often far, far north. Think like in barrow Alaska they’ve had two thunderstorms ever.

 

sorry I’m a serious weather nerd, my hobby is amateur stormchasing

Tiff🦋

[manolitode]

5 hours ago, TiffTastic said:

You need storm dynamics that are very difficult to recreate at extreme north latitudes. You essentially need convection storms instead of storms formed by large scale forcing. To have that you need things usually like warm sectors and deep instability/moisture that just can’t happen often far, far north. Think like in barrow Alaska they’ve had two thunderstorms ever. sorry I’m a serious weather nerd, my hobby is amateur stormchasing Tiff🦋

Thanks for enlightening us  still, thunderstorms would be possible. On the other hand, it wouldn't make much sence expecting real world weather in the TLD world where there's an aurora every 4th night or so, daily blizzards (at least on loper) and seamless mist transitions. 

[WillLong]

21 hours ago, oplli said:

does not really makes sense we are in winter

What do the prey eat, then, after day 400? lol

[oplli]

3 minutes ago, WillLong said:

What do the prey eat, then, after day 400? lol

In winter nothing grows the groud is frozen. and the game get more and more difficult that is normal. Rabbits eat branches. if you tyoe what do rabbits eat in winter it gave me that Place small branches and twigs from fall pruning on the ground in your yard for rabbits to eat during the winter. Rabbits consume twigs, branches, young trees, and shrub buds in the winter.

Edited October 13, 2020 by oplli

[WillLong]

The deciduous plants would... die without spring. I can see this is taking a silly turn so I'm not going to reply after this.

[oplli]

yes i dont think the point is to find who is right 

[Dan_]

13 hours ago, TiffTastic said:

You need storm dynamics that are very difficult to recreate at extreme north latitudes. You essentially need convection storms instead of storms formed by large scale forcing. To have that you need things usually like warm sectors and deep instability/moisture that just can’t happen often far, far north. Think like in barrow Alaska they’ve had two thunderstorms ever.

 

sorry I’m a serious weather nerd, my hobby is amateur stormchasing

Tiff🦋

Wow, I've never thought of thunderstorms being rare in the far north latitudes but it makes complete sense, cool knowledge. Thank you for sharing!

In regards to the OP, I think friction fire is something I think would make me enjoy the game more. I don't think I'd ever sleep on an inside building ever again if I had infinite firemaking supplies, just pop a protected fire against a rockface and sleep the blizzards away, without match saving anxiety ever crossing your mind for a fleeting second. I'd like that. 

[WillLong]

Friction fire is difficult, but man is it fun. You should try it.

[ManicManiac]

I've been a long-time proponent of the Hand Drill.

On 7/24/2019 at 3:25 AM, ManicManiac said:

One thing that I (and others) have suggested in our wish list threads in the past has been friction fire.  Many people get caught up on the "bow-drill," probably because it's more familiar... but I think the "hand-drill" would be better since it's simple (and the crafting recipe could conceivably be just a stick and a piece of cedar - because these are already in the game).   ***for the sake of balance... I have also recommended that this ability would be unlocked once the player's fire starting skill rose to a more advanced level... like Level 5***

However, I do also think we have more than enough ways to make fire in this game already... so while this isn't really a necessity it is one of those few idea's I've been very much in favor of.  I do think it could be a really nice touch... but I will still like the game just fine without it.

Edited October 15, 2020 by ManicManiac

[ManicManiac]

On 10/12/2020 at 8:08 PM, WillLong said:

So it's kind of illogical that the organics can't respawn.

As I've mentioned in a previous post:

On 3/14/2020 at 3:55 AM, ManicManiac said:

As for plant cultivation... I'd imagine that would be rather difficult.  Most plants are dormant in the cold seasons, so I'm not sure how much I'd like to be able to "grow things" given the circumstances. 

Also while we are considering the deep cold, I'd say it's reasonable that wild plants don't "re-spawn."  I like that aspect because it makes it important to be careful how we use the limited resources we find/forage. 

[oplli]

i do not think that we should "unlock" this skill at a high level of fire starting. i often go  in the woods and i am very experiences at making fires but beacause i never practised i dont know how the heck to light a fire with a bow  thats even worse without a bow.

thats why i think that it should be a different skill from making fire with traditional methods like matches and maglens.

we should only be able to unlock this still if we find something about it. like buffer memories that thalk about that or books, letters, pictures etc.

i think yes handrill is a thing but obviously the fire making chances are tiny with a drill so using a bow would be nice to get more chances to light the fire.  i know that a bowdrill and a handrill requires a different size for the stick but it is a game so it can definitevly adapt  

[ManicManiac]

1 hour ago, oplli said:

i do not think that we should "unlock" this skill at a high level of fire starting.

I understand what you're getting at... but my thoughts were simply that it would represent the practice and proficiency.
Also, for me it's a question of balance... I think being able to just make a friction fire too early would undermine some of the early game struggle that I enjoy so much.
As an ability that unlocks as a benefit of Fire Starting Level 5... then instead we preserve some of that early game struggle and gain a later game "reward."

But again... I don't think it's a necessity, I just thought it might be a nice touch.

 

1 hour ago, oplli said:

thats even worse without a bow.

And that's precisely why I'm in favor of the Hand Drill and not the Bow Drill.  The hand drill method is a little bit trickier when first learning it.  The bow drill on the other hand, pretty much anyone with a little hand-eye coordination could figure it out fairly quickly... so for this game, I'd definitely prefer the more challenging method.
I generally don't like it when things are easier in this game. 

On a separate (but somewhat related) note:
That's why I design personal challenges for myself these days.  I use player choice to make things a little more difficult/challenging/interesting for myself.  Simply by changing the way I choose to play it, I get to change my experience without needing to ask for the game to change for everyone else. 

Edited October 16, 2020 by ManicManiac

[oplli]

25 minutes ago, ManicManiac said:

I think being able to just make a friction fire too early would undermine some of the early game struggle that I enjoy so much.

i forgot to add those two detail in my message. i would like it to be a thing that you need to practice a lot. thats why i thaught the handdrill skill could start at 30% chances to make an ember and then like cleaning your rifle or sharpening your stone, you gain points everytime you practice. you have something called the board and it is an item once you click on it you can recycle it or use your drill to practice. it is a board that you crafted with dry woods with handcraft or maybe the workbench. so if you achieve to get an ember (starting at 30%) you gain a point for the skill. and every x points you gain more chances to light your fire.

[ManicManiac]

6 minutes ago, oplli said:

i would like it to be a thing that you need to practice a lot. thats why i thaught the handdrill skill could start at 30% chances to make an ember

That is indeed an interesting idea too. 

[WillLong]

Took me 3 months to do the hand drill right. Should start out at 5% probability with a 300 calorie burn, with a 50% chance of getting a bleeding wound on your hand.

Edited October 16, 2020 by WillLong

[WillLong]

3 hours ago, ManicManiac said:

I've been a long-time proponent of the Hand Drill.

However, I do also think we have more than enough ways to make fire in this game already... so while this isn't really a necessity it is one of those few idea's I've been very much in favor of.  I do think it could be a really nice touch... but I will still like the game just fine without it.

Yeah, the game is fine without it. I'm pretty happy with the game period. This is just a list of fantasy items, not expectations.

[oplli]

27 minutes ago, WillLong said:

Took me 3 months to do the hand drill right. Should start out at 5% probability with a 300 calorie burn, with a 50% chance of getting a bleeding wound on your hand.

bleeding yes. 5% chance no thanks. lets do some maths: ii have 5 chances on 100 to start ONE ember. wich means that on 200 times i try to light an ember i can possibly acheive 10 times to light that ember and get myself hurt 100 times... i said yes for the bleeding but i dont think it is the way to do it.

it could be something like that: if you try one time to light an ember you have an affliction called hand rip risk. 

the more you try to light an ember the more you risk to hurt yourself. if you stop at lets say 80% chances of rip, you will have 80% chances to bleed if you do something with you hands for example shooting an arrow, fighting a wolf, crafting things etc etc.

[Bigfatcat999]

Some Canadian history:

 

A crashed Avro Arrow?

[k0s0ff]

Produce fire by friction. It is possible but difficult.)) I Think it should not be a separate skill. Not the result of a level 5 fire-making skill. This should be the scripted moment after the island runs out of matches. This is hardcore.

[oplli]

1 hour ago, k0s0ff said:

Produce fire by friction. It is possible but difficult.)) I Think it should not be a separate skill. Not the result of a level 5 fire-making skill. This should be the scripted moment after the island runs out of matches. This is hardcore.

If friction fire one day comes to the game, i think it would be necessairy to decrease the spawn of matches. what do you think?

[k0s0ff]

1 hour ago, oplli said:

If friction fire one day comes to the game, i think it would be necessairy to decrease the spawn of matches. what do you think?

Yes, it might be a good idea. Especially if you can configure it yourself. And the number of matches will depend on the complexity. The only question is how well it can be balanced.

I remember with warmth my desperate rush to the destroyed railway. When I ran out of matches. It was a never-to-be-forgotten adventure. especially when it turned out that I forgot my sleeping bag.