Questions about the Revolver?

[ManicManiac]

Raph already spoke about it in Dispatch 34:

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If I tell you it's a XX calibre, you'll start comparing the in-game behaviour to what you know of the real-world equivalent which is irrelevant.
The Revolver is "good at deterring wolves" calibre and the Rifle is "better chance of taking down a Bear if you're lucky" calibre.  

Edited October 26, 2019 by ManicManiac

[DaPepster]

On 10/25/2019 at 7:47 PM, ManicManiac said:

Raph already spoke about it in Dispatch 34:

Theeeeeeen why bother telling us that the rifle caliber is a .303...?

[ManicManiac]

@DaPepster
You'd have to take that up with Raph...

[deathbydanish]

On 10/31/2019 at 7:41 PM, DaPepster said:

Theeeeeeen why bother telling us that the rifle caliber is a .303...?

I'd wager some of the past discussions showing the ballistic capability of .303 kind of messed up the suspension of disbelief when it came to limiting the rifle in the game. .303 keeps company with the likes of 7.62x54r, .30-06, and 8mm mauser, all of which have a ton of power, especially at the ranges the game limits you to. I've at the very least done some not unsubstantial cratering to 3/8" AR550 steel target with 8mm mauser inside of 25 yards. While its technically got more muzzle energy than the .303, I doubt there's a bear out there with any forward facing bones that will be comparable to 3/8" AR550 steel plate.

It can really kill the mystery if you've got a ballistics data dump for whatever caliber you identify. IMO I've posted in the past that I'd be ok with the revolver being .38 special, used as a last resort firearm, it would be enough to make a wolf think twice after being hit but not enough to turn an already charging bear.

[DaPepster]

7 hours ago, deathbydanish said:

I'd wager some of the past discussions showing the ballistic capability of .303 kind of messed up the suspension of disbelief when it came to limiting the rifle in the game. .303 keeps company with the likes of 7.62x54r, .30-06, and 8mm mauser, all of which have a ton of power, especially at the ranges the game limits you to. I've at the very least done some not unsubstantial cratering to 3/8" AR550 steel target with 8mm mauser inside of 25 yards. While its technically got more muzzle energy than the .303, I doubt there's a bear out there with any forward facing bones that will be comparable to 3/8" AR550 steel plate.

I totally agree with you 100% on the .303 and the rest of the rifle rounds you mentioned here~ 😎 👌The .303 would be a good choice for the rifle in the game, considering history, location, as well as muzzle energy and velocities.  No argument there whatsoever.  I'm just simply asking why the rifle has a specification for caliber and not the revolver.

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I'd be ok with the revolver being .38 special, used as a last resort firearm, it would be enough to make a wolf think twice after being hit but not enough to turn an already charging bear.

See now, IMO, you're forgetting where you are at in this game.  Out in the wilderness, sparsely populated with a majority of the game being medium to large size aside from the wolves and rabbits.  As a revolver for a backup, do you reeeeeally want a .38 spl to ward off a wolf or worse, a bear or moose?  🤣  No offense to .38 spl fans or the caliber itself, but as a backup in the wilderness, it is extremely underpowered, even if it was a +P cartridge (which is pretty much a compromise between a normal .38 and the .357 Magnum).  You would really be better off with something that has at least if not close to 50% of the velocity and energy of the .303 or whatever hunting rifle you have, and either a .41 Magnum, .44 Magnum (.429 actually, but who's counting, right?) or a .454 Casull (which is a lengthened and strengthened .45 Long Colt) will certainly have that, especially if you have a hot round like Grizzly, Buffalo Bore or Underwood in the cylinder where you're easily throwing bullets out with at least four-digit energy and velocity.  Even a really hot .357 Magnum would be a good start.

 

Anyways, not trying to start a fight or anything~ I'm just stating what I think would be best based on the numbers for all the possible calibers, their availability, the location, and the history of that caliber, etc.  Just my two cents~  As a backup, I would happily take out my Ruger New Model Blackhawk in .41 Magnum with some good 265-grain Underwoods~ Cheers, all!  🖖

[StoneyWolf]

54 minutes ago, DaPepster said:

No offense to .38 spl fans or the caliber itself, but as a backup in the wilderness, it is extremely underpowered

agreed, In real life a 38 won't necessarily stop a charging wolf unless you got a solid head shot and a big bear would just laugh at you so something with more power would make more sense 

[deathbydanish]

11 hours ago, DaPepster said:

I totally agree with you 100% on the .303 and the rest of the rifle rounds you mentioned here~ 😎 👌The .303 would be a good choice for the rifle in the game, considering history, location, as well as muzzle energy and velocities.  No argument there whatsoever.  I'm just simply asking why the rifle has a specification for caliber and not the revolver.

See now, IMO, you're forgetting where you are at in this game.  Out in the wilderness, sparsely populated with a majority of the game being medium to large size aside from the wolves and rabbits.  As a revolver for a backup, do you reeeeeally want a .38 spl to ward off a wolf or worse, a bear or moose?  🤣  No offense to .38 spl fans or the caliber itself, but as a backup in the wilderness, it is extremely underpowered, even if it was a +P cartridge (which is pretty much a compromise between a normal .38 and the .357 Magnum).  You would really be better off with something that has at least if not close to 50% of the velocity and energy of the .303 or whatever hunting rifle you have, and either a .41 Magnum, .44 Magnum (.429 actually, but who's counting, right?) or a .454 Casull (which is a lengthened and strengthened .45 Long Colt) will certainly have that, especially if you have a hot round like Grizzly, Buffalo Bore or Underwood in the cylinder where you're easily throwing bullets out with at least four-digit energy and velocity.  Even a really hot .357 Magnum would be a good start.

 

Anyways, not trying to start a fight or anything~ I'm just stating what I think would be best based on the numbers for all the possible calibers, their availability, the location, and the history of that caliber, etc.  Just my two cents~  As a backup, I would happily take out my Ruger New Model Blackhawk in .41 Magnum with some good 265-grain Underwoods~ Cheers, all!  🖖

 

I think I needed to clarify my point, I elaborated on all the .303 and its contemporaries because when you realize what it can do IRL, it doesn't jive with what you see in the game. Inside of 25 yards you'll probably easily penetrate the entire length of all the animals that you run into the game, but if the game were like that, you'd wonder where the challenge was after getting well established resources wise.

I wouldn't say I am a .38 special fan, just someone who is getting into revolvers. I like that you mentioned the Buffalo Bore/Underwood loads, I actually just ordered some of these, when I read up on the ballistics, they seemed to exceed the capability of lower end .357 magnum ammo like this Winchester white box stuff. The WWB is coming in at 410 ft/lbs for muzzle energy and the Buffalo Bore is doing 505 ft/lbs of energy.

So the reason I chose .38 special for the game is mostly to reflect the very austere background of the game environment itself. I get the impression from what civilization is present in the game, that everything is a few decades behind as far as standards. I'd imagine that their law enforcement for example would probably still be using revolvers even if their counterparts in mainland Canada have moved onto semi-automatics. The sensibilities and aesthetics overall of the game scream rustic and old fashioned to me, so why not their firearms? I know in the past the community has shown a desire to curate what gets into the game and I agree with the old fashioned sensibility/aesthetic it currently has. As far as firearms I'd try to keep it in line with that, so I'd be more excited to see a pump action shotgun with wood furniture being added as opposed to a box fed semi-auto rifle being added.

[DaPepster]

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So the reason I chose .38 special for the game is mostly to reflect the very austere background of the game environment itself. I get the impression from what civilization is present in the game, that everything is a few decades behind as far as standards.

I totally 100% agree with this also, as I considered this when I came up with the list of calibers I mentioned previously:

.45 Long Colt (1872)

.38 Spl (1898)

.357 Magnum (1935)

.44 Magnum (1955)

.41 Magnum (1964)

I still say a .38 Spl and a normal .45 Long Colt are a bit too weak to be considered a backup weapon in the event of my rifle going down, nor do I see a resident of Great Bear having such a caliber as a backup for when they go hunting or if they get into a survival situation, but...  *shrugs*  ...to each their own, I guess. The .41 and .44 definitely have good power for the wilderness without acquiring a hot round like Underwood/Buffalo Bore/Grizzly.  The other calibers can get close to or equal to that power with those hyper rounds, but those are fairly modern and would go against our agreement to standards being behind a few decades, so I'm ruling those out because of that. 

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I wouldn't say I am a .38 special fan, just someone who is getting into revolvers.

I understand.

[deathbydanish]

4 hours ago, DaPepster said:

I totally 100% agree with this also, as I considered this when I came up with the list of calibers I mentioned previously:

.45 Long Colt (1872)

.38 Spl (1898)

.357 Magnum (1935)

.44 Magnum (1955)

.41 Magnum (1964)

I still say a .38 Spl and a normal .45 Long Colt are a bit too weak to be considered a backup weapon in the event of my rifle going down, nor do I see a resident of Great Bear having such a caliber as a backup for when they go hunting or if they get into a survival situation, but...  *shrugs*  ...to each their own, I guess. The .41 and .44 definitely have good power for the wilderness without acquiring a hot round like Underwood/Buffalo Bore/Grizzly.  The other calibers can get close to or equal to that power with those hyper rounds, but those are fairly modern and would go against our agreement to standards being behind a few decades, so I'm ruling those out because of that. 

I understand.

Yeah don't get me wrong a .38 special revolver is probably not an ideal field revolver if you're hunting IRL, while hunting is not to my taste, if I were to do it, I'd at a minimum use an L-frame revolver with the hottest .357 magnum I could find. It'll get bumped up to a .44 magnum if polar/grizzly bears are to be expected. Just tried to do some research on revolvers in Canada and all I could find was a wikipedia entry on what their military used. In World War II they used a S&W M&P in .38 special in addition to that they used revolvers chambered in .455 Webley. Looking at the ballistic data the .455 Webley reminds me of .44 special with its large diameter and low muzzle velocity.

[stratvox]

On 11/2/2019 at 7:19 AM, DaPepster said:

The .303 would be a good choice for the rifle in the game, considering history,

This is really the reason right there. The Lee-Enfield .303 is an iconic rifle of Canada's north; it was in continuous use by the Rangers (a CF unit that patrols Canada's north) for over a century, only being obsoleted within the last twenty years or so; IIRC that was in 1997. 

ETA: that said, Raph's point about the firearms' function within the game is well taken.

Edited November 4, 2019 by stratvox

[Moll]

In older game files is revolver ammunition mentioned as .38. But they choose never mentione it when release it. They probably should not mentione .303 for rifle too. just "rifle cartridge" would be enough.

they its on your imagination, if enfield is .303 British or converted in .308 Win. For revolver its probably closest for .357 Magnum. it can bring down a bear with luck, so it has to be some more potent than .38 Special.  

Irl i see succesfull hog kill with Glock 17, so even those "human" calibres have some potential for wildlife.  Better than nothing.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Moll

[Qwyietman]

This has more to do with game mechanics than type of revolver, but I used to be a crack shot with the revolver about 4 months ago, then I had to take a break from TLD for my Fall Semester at University. I've been playing again for a couple weeks now and no matter what I do it seems like I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn... Has the accuracy mechanic of the revolver been affected by any of the game updates? Thanks

[Qwyietman]

Also, personally, I've always believed it to be a .357 magnum pistol with short barrel. This was a common law enforcement carry weapon all the way back to the 30's and fully capable of dropping wildlife short of a angry bear. .44 magnums are used by some professional handgun hunters for small to medium size bear (not grizzlies, lol) and probably would be too powerful to represent TLD revolver; you could drop a bear with a .357 with a very lucky shot.