Trip and tumble

[Hiemalis]

Wouldn't it be nice if we could trip and tumble down a slope? Well, not nice "nice", but you know what I mean.

Sometimes I'm exploring a ravine or climbing down a really steep slope and I think to myself: how come my character never misses his feet? Sure, he can sprain his ankle, but his step never fails enough to crash down rolling all the way. This is rock, dirt and snow, after all -- not the firmest, grippiest (?) kind of ground.

Of course, I can roleplay the caution my character commits in tiptoeing mounds and ledges, but if there was a chance, albeit minimal, of slipping and rolling down, it wouldn't only be in my head anymore.

Suggested practical consequences: damage to general condition, chance for sprained wrist/ankle, chance for some items to fall off the backpack.

I'm sure that the devs have already given this idea some thought. But what do you guys think of it?

[Rusty_Old_F250]

I was just thinking about this yesterday, I like your ideas! Currently, if your careful enough, you can descend a snowy, icy 75-80* slope with no damage whatsoever, that's not exactly realistic...  And in the mountains, sliding off a slope is a very real danger. A major chance of serious harm would cut down on my shortcut taking!

Sam

[Patrick Carlson]

3 hours ago, Hiemalis said:

Wouldn't it be nice if we could trip and tumble down a slope? Well, not nice "nice", but you know what I mean.

Sometimes I'm exploring a ravine or climbing down a really steep slope and I think to myself: how come my character never misses his feet? Sure, he can sprain his ankle, but his step never fails enough to crash down rolling all the way. This is rock, dirt and snow, after all -- not the firmest, grippiest (?) kind of ground.

Of course, I can roleplay the caution my character commits in tiptoeing mounds and ledges, but if there was a chance, albeit minimal, of slipping and rolling down, it wouldn't only be in my head anymore.

Suggested practical consequences: damage to general condition, chance for sprained wrist/ankle, chance for some items to fall off the backpack.

I'm sure that the devs have already given this idea some thought. But what do you guys think of it?

Are you suggesting something like the current rope fall mechanic? How catastrophic would you see this being? If it were mild damage, how would you differentiate it from the current sprains ect? Just a few thoughts.

 

[Wastelander]

As more intelligent people than I have pointed out in other threads, you either go with a sprain or you don't go at all - as I have heard, broken bones in the wilderness are a very slow, very agonizing death sentence.

3 hours ago, Patrick Carlson said:

Are you suggesting something like the current rope fall mechanic? How catastrophic would you see this being? If it were mild damage, how would you differentiate it from the current sprains ect? Just a few thoughts.

 

First time I encountered that I was so damn scared. I'm afraid of heights IRL, or at least used to be, and thought I finally got over it. But no, TLD had to go ahead and trigger my decades-old fears  still, it's a damn good game when it manages to do that, just saying I won't be using the climbing mechanics anymore if I can avoid it

3 hours ago, Rusty_Old_F250 said:

 A major chance of serious harm would cut down on my shortcut taking!

Same here. I regularly take shortcuts, and I especially abuse them on Coastal Highway to get back to my shelter when I encounter wolves while unarmed. I can zigzag down just fine, but the wolves don't seem to have the proper pathfinding. Either that or I'm just lucky.

[Hiemalis]

On 8/5/2016 at 4:52 PM, Patrick Carlson said:

Are you suggesting something like the current rope fall mechanic? How catastrophic would you see this being? If it were mild damage, how would you differentiate it from the current sprains ect? Just a few thoughts.

I was thinking of something more along the lines of the "spraining your ankle when climbing up/down a steep enough hill" mechanic. (As opposed to the rope fall mechanic, where it's just a matter of managing your fatigue/stamina bars.)

As for the consequences, like @Wastelander pointed out, broken bones would be lethal, and I guess that'd be way too harsh a risk. I'd go with a set of already existing effects: random general condition damage, random chance to sprain ankle/wrist, random chance to damage/drop items from backpack, random damage to currently worn clothes. Perhaps random chance to start bleeding as to represent open wounds; rocks can be pretty sharp, after all. Ah, random damage to morale, too, I guess? (I'm thinking of the forthcoming wellbeing system.)

With all this, I'd certainly think twice before going and tiptoeing around the edges of the Timber Wolf Mountain.

In a perfect world with infinite time/resources, the devs would implement a whole new system to manage the character's balance (and new items in order to lessen/minimze the risks of tumbling, e.g. walking sticks), which unfortunately is not the case.

[Dirmagnos]

2 hours ago, Hiemalis said:

As for the consequences, like @Wastelander pointed out, broken bones would be lethal.

Not really. If it was just from fall then it would most likely be stable fracture, that can heal quite nicely without much trouble. Were talking about short falls of fairly even snowy terrain to soften up this fall.

[Sly]

19 hours ago, Dirmagnos said:

If it was just from fall then it would most likely be stable fracture, that can heal quite nicely without much trouble.

While been much less dangerous then the open fractures, in game survival settings even stable non open fracture could be great, even deadly trouble. Two weeks of impaired mobility could mean death.

[miah999]

2 minutes ago, Sly said:

While been much less dangerous then the open fractures, in game survival settings even stable non open fracture could be great, even deadly trouble. Two weeks of impaired mobility could mean death.

Especially if your not stocked for two weeks. Personally I don't keep more then 2-3 days of food with me at any given time.

[Sly]

10 minutes ago, miah999 said:

Especially if your not stocked for two weeks. Personally I don't keep more then 2-3 days of food with me at any given time.

Exactly.

[miah999]

The other issue with long term immobility, is it would not make for very interesting game-play. 

Now I'm not one of those players that needs constant action, but "Lying in Bed Simulator 2016" does not sound fun.

I'd like to just assume our protagonist has good bones. I've never broken a bone in my life. That's with a hard childhood, two car wrecks, and career in law enforcement.

[Dirmagnos]

1 hour ago, Sly said:

While been much less dangerous then the open fractures, in game survival settings even stable non open fracture could be great, even deadly trouble. Two weeks of impaired mobility could mean death.

True, a lot depends on situation. But player should be able to survive it given right conditions.

Limping around at reduced speed and only performing menial tasks, with any type of exploring being a complete no-no.

But yeah, if player is far from home, with no food or any means of taking care of himself for prolonged period of time, then hed be screwed. It would be worth noting, that singe game lacks any type of long term preparation mechanics, then appropriate adjustments would need to be implemented.

[rla1974]

The main consequence, in my opinion, should be uncontrolled movement.  Your sole is more likely to lose traction with solid ground and injuries would be sustained when they re-connect with solid surface at speed.  Once a person has gone down, they should start sliding downhill and connecting with a solid object like a tree or a rock could be measured as a fraction of the falling mechanic.  This slipping and falling mechanic need not be reserved to steep slopes - walking across ice might also be tricky and cause one to fall. The risk is then managed by the players own decisions as they decide how they might want to navigate risky surfaces near long slopes or sheer drops.

As the OP said, there is no real mechanical disincentive for unrealistic behaviour - what consequence there is can be quickly neutralized with a bandage and painkillers.  By sliding harmlessly down the gentler slopes of Mystery Lake, it would encourage people to plan their traversal more carefully.  This might also bring about the need for crampons, either makeshift or looted, to ensure more secure footing.

[Thurman Merman]

On 8/5/2016 at 6:02 PM, Wastelander said:

Same here. I regularly take shortcuts, and I especially abuse them on Coastal Highway to get back to my shelter when I encounter wolves while unarmed. I can zigzag down just fine, but the wolves don't seem to have the proper pathfinding. Either that or I'm just lucky.

I've been moving all 210kg of the loot I gathered on PV and TWM to CH.  I do the same thing - I come out of that mine from PV and just go almost straight downhill toward the coast.  Not realistic, but I'm on 5th trip and getting bored.

[Wastelander]

1 hour ago, Thurman Merman said:

210kg

How. Just... how?

[Thurman Merman]

3 minutes ago, Wastelander said:

How. Just... how?

I'm a hoarder.  I took everything except some jeans and shoes - think it only took me about 4 trips to get the TMW loot from the Hut to the Prepper's Cache on PV - 49kg total a trip (of course, about 15 of that was stuff I always carry).  Wish I hadn't eaten all the canned goods - the weight+spoilage made it the correct call, but they would look really good on the shelves in the Quonset.

[Wastelander]

Just now, Thurman Merman said:

I'm a hoarder.  I took everything except some jeans and shoes

I do the same but... 210kg? How? Is it just me or isn't movement hella slow near 40kg on voyageur?

[Thurman Merman]

3 minutes ago, Wastelander said:

I do the same but... 210kg? How? Is it just me or isn't movement hella slow near 40kg on voyageur?

I load up to about 45kg - slow on Stalker, too - especially into the wind.  Moved all the PV loot to the rural crossroads.  Then went to TWM and moved everything to the hut (except some jeans and shoes).  Then moved it all from the hut to the cache on PV by the rope.  Then moved it all to Rural Crossroads.  In the process of moving it all to the Quonset.  Before my first trip back to CH, I had over 210kg, excluding hides, guts and saplings, in all the kitchen cabinets.

On the upside, my Quonset shelves look great with many axes, dozens of crackers, fridges full of drink, knives and guns and whetstones everywhere.  Once I get it looking all pretty , I may take a photo.  Or, I may restart and this time keep most of the canned goods - would be some nice new color on the shelves.

[Pillock]

Perhaps once the improved 1st-person presence makes it into the game, we can have some sort of 'clambering' state for movement? It could work in a similar way to the rope-climb mechanic?

Currently you can descend near-vertical rocky cliffs with a spider-like grip of your feet on tiny, tiny ledges. It feels like a cheat. Conversely, not being able to climb over little snowbanks can get pretty irritating.

In terms of penalties for falling, the current injury types seem to be already present in the game - sprains, lacerations and bruising - as well as clothing damage and chance for loss of equipment. I'm not sure what bruising does, or if it's a placeholder for future improved injury mechanics, but certainly longer-term healing of injuries coupled with greater effects on your movement and action abilities would be a good addition.

I'd really, really like to see some kind of simulation of pain involved in this - perhaps even its own status-level bar that affects your movement, actions and sound/vision. That way, you could have painkillers function more realistically, providing short-term relief without insta-curing the affliction itself. Pain and comfort level could play a role in lots of different mechanics including warmth, hunger, sleep, illness and injury with real effects on the character's abilities.

[MarrowStone]

Has anybody ever played the indie game "miasmata?" A dramatic tumble mechanic like in that game or what @Patrick Carlson said about the rope fall mechanic would be really nice!!

I always loved the dramatic scenes TLD threw me into.

For clarification for the miasmata reference, your PC is avoiding this creepy cat monster with horns and sometimes the best course of action is to throw yourself over a steep slope to avoid being eaten. In which you go into a dramatic tumble where your arms are flailing and contacting with the ground until you lose momentum and stop.

[Felli]

11 hours ago, MarrowStone said:

Has anybody ever played the indie game "miasmata?" A dramatic tumble mechanic like in that game or what @Patrick Carlson said about the rope fall mechanic would be really nice!!

I always loved the dramatic scenes TLD threw me into.

For clarification for the miasmata reference, your PC is avoiding this creepy cat monster with horns and sometimes the best course of action is to throw yourself over a steep slope to avoid being eaten. In which you go into a dramatic tumble where your arms are flailing and contacting with the ground until you lose momentum and stop.

I Played this game and loved it! The controls were a bit wonky but what really struck me as cool was how too much momentum down a hill or up a steep slope could send you tumbling down and knock things out of your hand. It's also fairly realistic in the sense that if you take a real life tumble down a hill you normally don't have control over what you were holding onto. If you were carrying a lantern or a rifle or a knife you could easily drop it along with several items that may have been near the top of your bag.

What would be a plausible mechanic in the Long Dark's gameplay would perhaps be a sprain or torn clothing. Perhaps even a dizzy/concussion/bump on the head. They can be dangerous but aren't always life threatening. Maybe a long enough tumble or a hard enough hit could wind you or knock out out for a little while. Tumbling down a hill or hitting a tree/rock may not be lethal and it may not even break bones but it can certainly do some damage.