suggestion The matter I'm really frustrated in food preservation

[Docterrok]

Before I begin, let me tell you a story, it was a blizzardy day in TLD, I was huddled up in Quonset gas station, there was a bears den close by and the bear was always snooping around and one day I realized it was a little to close, so I spent the next couple of days going to pleasant valley to get a rifle and other supplies, I returned to my dear Quonset home and shot that bear, got molested by it, shot it again, ran, and shot it once more, I finally took it down, so I got to work and spent nearly the entire day extracting the fruits of my labor, after getting nearly 35 kg of meat, I realized something. Most of this meat would be inedible very soon, I then became very frustrated and now I'm making this post, food spoilage in this game is not only unrealistic, but poorly thought out and goes against the grain of logic, for example, you are in perpetual cold, but guess what? Putting food outside does nothing to preserve it, again, an illogical game mechanic that's only purpose is to frustrate the player. Also, preserving food would not make the game any less difficult, it would only increase the amount of days someone could survive, I'm fine with the clothes that are made of tissue paper, and not having the ability to jump, but not being able to freeze food in a frozen environment makes absolutely no sense to me! In a game that values immersion, I would've thought food preservation would at least be on the roadmap by now. But hey, if the devs think that food rotting at astronomical speeds is a good idea, at least give us the option to eat the maggots of our ruined food. Again, I try not to be cynical, but when a game does stuff like this I see it as a huge middle finger to my face, mechanics like this belong in games like Dark Souls or Surgeon Simulator, not a game renown for its artistic appeal, if food preservation was implemented, I could spend more time admiring the actual beauty of the game and not worry about my food going bad after a few days. Returning to my story, do you know what happened to my meat, I now have nearly 20kg of meat that is completely spoiled, again, I love this game and the work put into it, but something really has to change with this, I'm sure I'm not the only one who's made a post on this, but seriously, food doesn't spoil this fast. Well, here are some ways I think we should be able to preserve food.
1. Let it freeze outside
2. Ability to make a smoker to cure your meat
3. Salt
4. Indoor drying rack

Again, I don't know how difficult that would be to program, but it would save a lot of unneeded heartache. Thank you for reading!

[Wastelander]

Food preservation is frequently requested and discussed. Especially salting and smoking have been community favourites, and I think it's safe to assume that, at least with the addition of seasons, Hinterland will introduce some kind of food preservation.

[Dirmagnos]

Food spoilage rates and inability to preserve it in any way(especially ridiculous considering that were in perpetual state of below freezing temperatures) has been discussed lengthy with various good ideas and solutions. So far, its one of those things that received 0 attention.

From the first time i learned that food in containers spoils at half rates compared to food in backpack, for some unknown mythical reason, there havent been any notable changes in that aspect of gameplay.

[Patrick Carlson]

Curing, salting, and drying aside, we actually completely overhauled the decay system (including for food items like meat) in the Tireless Menace update.

For meat in particular, you'll see a dramatic difference between indoor and outdoor decay rates, reflecting the difference in temperature. That being said, we're always open to hearing what you think of the changes. But it's certainly not "mythical" because there have been some very notable updates in this area.  

[Docterrok]

Man I wish that I could freeze it at least, and have to thaw it in order to consume it or something like that. 

[Docterrok]

9 minutes ago, Patrick Carlson said:

Curing, salting, and drying aside, we actually completely overhauled the decay system (including for food items like meat) in the Tireless Menace update.

For meat in particular, you'll see a dramatic difference between indoor and outdoor decay rates, reflecting the difference in temperature. That being said, we're always open to hearing what you think of the changes. But it's certainly not "mythical" because there have been some very notable updates in this area.  

But what about actually freezing food, not just slowed decay?

[vancopower]

6 hours ago, Docterrok said:

Before I begin, let me tell you a story, it was a blizzardy day in TLD, I was huddled up in Quonset gas station, there was a bears den close by and the bear was always snooping around and one day I realized it was a little to close, so I spent the next couple of days going to pleasant valley to get a rifle and other supplies, I returned to my dear Quonset home and shot that bear, got molested by it, shot it again, ran, and shot it once more, I finally took it down, so I got to work and spent nearly the entire day extracting the fruits of my labor, after getting nearly 35 kg of meat, I realized something. Most of this meat would be inedible very soon, I then became very frustrated and now I'm making this post, food spoilage in this game is not only unrealistic, but poorly thought out and goes against the grain of logic, for example, you are in perpetual cold, but guess what? Putting food outside does nothing to preserve it, again, an illogical game mechanic that's only purpose is to frustrate the player. Also, preserving food would not make the game any less difficult, it would only increase the amount of days someone could survive, I'm fine with the clothes that are made of tissue paper, and not having the ability to jump, but not being able to freeze food in a frozen environment makes absolutely no sense to me! In a game that values immersion, I would've thought food preservation would at least be on the roadmap by now. But hey, if the devs think that food rotting at astronomical speeds is a good idea, at least give us the option to eat the maggots of our ruined food. Again, I try not to be cynical, but when a game does stuff like this I see it as a huge middle finger to my face, mechanics like this belong in games like Dark Souls or Surgeon Simulator, not a game renown for its artistic appeal, if food preservation was implemented, I could spend more time admiring the actual beauty of the game and not worry about my food going bad after a few days. Returning to my story, do you know what happened to my meat, I now have nearly 20kg of meat that is completely spoiled, again, I love this game and the work put into it, but something really has to change with this, I'm sure I'm not the only one who's made a post on this, but seriously, food doesn't spoil this fast. Well, here are some ways I think we should be able to preserve food.
1. Let it freeze outside
2. Ability to make a smoker to cure your meat
3. Salt
4. Indoor drying rack

Again, I don't know how difficult that would be to program, but it would save a lot of unneeded heartache. Thank you for reading!

I thought that this was taken care off already, in the previous update. in order for the food to spoil completely from 100% to 0% it would take 1000+ days in a container and maybe half of that in survivor inventory. I think  that you did not harvest the bear on time so the meat that you got was probably on low percentage already so that's why you could not preserve it, otherwise I think you have older version of the game. After the tireless menace  update things do not go bad this fast anymore. Anyway I totally support you on the preserving food mechanics and might add this:

To preserve meat you can cure it with salt and the way you get salt is by boiling salt water in some  of the fishing huts at the sea. When you cure the meat you reduce it's calorie value to 30% of it's original value but gain never spoil benefit. That way you will not brake the game by having endless supply of food and you will efficiently use the whole meat you have. 

[Docterrok]

I live in the country and make my own smoked meat, making a smoker would not only be an interesting addition, but would add risk/reward to the game, smoking takes days, so would you spend days to make preserved meat? Or eat it fresh? Another tough decision perfect for this game.

[vancopower]

3 hours ago, Patrick Carlson said:

Curing, salting, and drying aside, we actually completely overhauled the decay system (including for food items like meat) in the Tireless Menace update.

For meat in particular, you'll see a dramatic difference between indoor and outdoor decay rates, reflecting the difference in temperature. That being said, we're always open to hearing what you think of the changes. But it's certainly not "mythical" because there have been some very notable updates in this area.  

Meat is again spoiling fast I've just tested it. I think in this new update it somehow switched to the old decaying rate. I killed a wolf and then I extracted 1 kg of meat and stored it. later when I extracted 2 kg more, they ware the same percentage with the stored meat. which was 55% but when I harvested the first 1 KG it was 70%. This is not ok. In Tireless Menace update it was different. Also cooked meat dropped 1% per hour whether or not it was in a container in Tireless Menace it was more like 2-3 hours . I'll run some more tests on external containers and report again.

[TLD Survivalist]

If you store cooked meat outside in a container it only spoils like 1% per day or somewhere around there... Only time my meat spoils fast is if Im hangin on to it or store it inside somewhere (or if left outside on the ground--havent fully tested this last one)

 

As for the slower decay rate and NOT being able to freeze the food... I essentially role play the idea-- itd get frostburn eventually.. Or the fact that jus cause its frozen dont mean it wont ever spoil, maybe take alot longer but isnt THAT the general idea... Sure being able to have thaw it out would be nice but id keep current mechanics for "frozen" foods but add having to thaw out before eating.. Who knows might be a thing in full version.. This is Alpha afterall

[Docterrok]

Is this true pat?

[TLD Survivalist]

14 minutes ago, Docterrok said:

Is this true pat?

Ouch!... The doubts, they hurt lolz.. But yeah, for real dude, try it out... I have had cooked meat last like a week before getting gamey

 

And by "gamey" I mean like 89%

[Mikeyd0577]

14 hours ago, Patrick Carlson said:

Curing, salting, and drying aside, we actually completely overhauled the decay system (including for food items like meat) in the Tireless Menace update.

For meat in particular, you'll see a dramatic difference between indoor and outdoor decay rates, reflecting the difference in temperature. That being said, we're always open to hearing what you think of the changes. But it's certainly not "mythical" because there have been some very notable updates in this area.  

I didn't know this, so that will help.  But what if I put in the trunk of a car, will it decay as though it is indoors?

[TLD Survivalist]

Should act as though outside storage

[Scyzara]

Only containers inside locations with loading screens (houses, trailers, Carter Hydro Dam, etc.) should count as indoor containers. The hatch inside the mountaineer's hut e.g. counts as an outdoor container. (Containers inside lookouts might possibly be an exception, not sure about that. Never tested it.)

Cars do not count as indoor locations themselves, hence their trunk shouldn't be one either.

[Tbone555]

be patient, padawans!

food preservation is coming. it HAS to.
if we get the spring sandbox, what are we gonna do? we're gonna be stockpiling food to last us through the next winter, right? just like homesteaders in northern canada / alaska do.
but without preservation, stockpiling food will be completely useless, as it'll just spoil. and what about when we harvest a deer in the spring, summer or fall? it'll decay just as quickly outdoors as indoors, due to the temperature. no more dropping it on the ground to save it! unless we eat the entire deer in one or two sittings, it'll be spoiled by the end of the day at this game's degradation rate. sooner or later, theyre gonna HAVE to add preservation techniques. all we have to do is just be patient

[Wastelander]

1 minute ago, Tbone555 said:

be patient, padawans!

food preservation is coming. it HAS to.
if we get the spring sandbox, what are we gonna do? we're gonna be stockpiling food to last us through the next winter, right? just like homesteaders in northern canada / alaska do.
but without preservation, stockpiling food will be completely useless, as it'll just spoil. and what about when we harvest a deer in the spring, summer or fall? it'll decay just as quickly outdoors as indoors, due to the temperature. no more dropping it on the ground to save it! unless we eat the entire deer in one or two sittings, it'll be spoiled by the end of the day at this game's degradation rate. sooner or later, theyre gonna HAVE to add preservation techniques. all we have to do is just be patient

This.

Also worth of mention is that the game is still in Alpha stage, and with the things already present in the game combined with what is to come, food preservation is a logical consequence - however, the game is in Alpha, so we can't expect a complete game already (even though it oftentimes feels like it, kudos to Hinterland).

[Dirmagnos]

19 hours ago, Patrick Carlson said:

For meat in particular, you'll see a dramatic difference between indoor and outdoor decay rates, reflecting the difference in temperature. That being said, we're always open to hearing what you think of the changes. But it's certainly not "mythical" because there have been some very notable updates in this area.  

And from what ive seen not a single wolf in area will take interest in that meat for some reason. Plus, most indoor areas are also below freezing temperatures.

Meat could actually freeze, similar to corpses, when below freezing temperatures, regardless of area, that would slow its decay to a standstill(when fully frozen, id go with 1 to 1 correlation, eg 50% frozen meat decays at half rate, 100% frozen decays by only 1% of normal rate) and in terms of usage it must be thawed first(like it player wannt to cook it it adds to cooking duration based on freezing percentage, up to doubling it). Also frozen meat cannot be eaten directly.

19 hours ago, Docterrok said:

I live in the country and make my own smoked meat, making a smoker would not only be an interesting addition, but would add risk/reward to the game, smoking takes days, so would you spend days to make preserved meat? Or eat it fresh? Another tough decision perfect for this game.

Ive been toying with idea of converting one of many many empty houses into a smoker and with coal as fuel it could meet the requirements for smoking. Also would make coal an actually useful fire material outside of forge. Hang the meat, load up with coal for slow burn and come back in a day or two.

37 minutes ago, Wastelander said:

This.

Also worth of mention is that the game is still in Alpha stage, and with the things already present in the game combined with what is to come, food preservation is a logical consequence - however, the game is in Alpha, so we can't expect a complete game already (even though it oftentimes feels like it, kudos to Hinterland).

With so many big promises and eventual disappointments all those "excuse" stages, like EA, Alpha, Beta, Pre-Release, etc mean nothing to me. I complain about what is now to possible prevent another disappointment upon release. So far maybe 1 out of 10 games actually delivers quality content upon release, rest usually remain buggy and incomplete, surprisingly big companies are main culprits on that part. Smaller studios generally tend to deliver actually finished games.

[Boston123]

2 hours ago, Dirmagnos said:

 

Ive been toying with idea of converting one of many many empty houses into a smoker and with coal as fuel it could meet the requirements for smoking. Also would make coal an actually useful fire material outside of forge. Hang the meat, load up with coal for slow burn and come back in a day or two.

 

Good God, no! Do you want to die?

There is a significant difference between "coal" and "charcoal"

Coal is, put as simply as possible, solidified crude oil. Burning it gives off fumes that are highly toxic, and any food cooked with coal will be poisonous as a result unless the food is completely separate from the fumes produced. Our characters are likely getting brain damaged from forging metal in that confined environment.

Charcoal is hardwood that has been heated in the absence of oxygen, so that water and other chemicals get driven off and all that remains is mostly carbon, which burns without smoke, flame and such. Good for cooking, not good for smoking.

The whole point of smoking meat is the smoke. It is kind of in the name, you know? You want good, wet, green wood, that will put off a lot of smoke. A "good" smoking-fire will actually involve as little fire as possible, so as to actually cook the meat as little as possible. 

The only wood we have in-game that is suitable for smoking meat is birch, which isn't even a firewood for some odd reason. You want to avoid any and all resinous woods, as they make the smoked meat taste absolutely foul.

[Docterrok]

12 minutes ago, Boston123 said:

Good God, no! Do you want to die?

There is a significant difference between "coal" and "charcoal"

Coal is, put as simply as possible, solidified crude oil. Burning it gives off fumes that are highly toxic, and any food cooked with coal will be poisonous as a result unless the food is completely separate from the fumes produced. Our characters are likely getting brain damaged from forging metal in that confined environment.

Charcoal is hardwood that has been heated in the absence of oxygen, so that water and other chemicals get driven off and all that remains is mostly carbon, which burns without smoke, flame and such. Good for cooking, not good for smoking.

The whole point of smoking meat is the smoke. It is kind of in the name, you know? You want good, wet, green wood, that will put off a lot of smoke. A "good" smoking-fire will actually involve as little fire as possible, so as to actually cook the meat as little as possible. 

The only wood we have in-game that is suitable for smoking meat is birch, which isn't even a firewood for some odd reason. You want to avoid any and all resinous woods, as they make the smoked meat taste absolutely foul.

Good to know.

[Docterrok]

When I smoke my meat, I use brick specifically designed for smoking meat, lazy way out...

[Tbone555]

oh... i've cooked LOTS of food out of the forge, lit almost entirely using coal......................................
wish id known this sooner o_o

[Dirmagnos]

4 hours ago, Boston123 said:

Good God, no! Do you want to die?

Doh. *throws away his coal supply*

[nicko]

On 7/3/2016 at 9:08 PM, Mikeyd0577 said:

I didn't know this, so that will help.  But what if I put in the trunk of a car, will it decay as though it is indoors?

I thought the same thing and this is working well for me at the moment, I being testing this by leaving once piece of rabbit meat inside a cabinet near the fire barrel, and another outside in a car trunk. just checked after a few days, the one meat piece inside says its at 82% the other in car trunk is at 90%. So yeah maybe it pays to store your food in your car trunks.

[Mikeyd0577]

24 minutes ago, nicko said:

I thought the same thing and this is working well for me at the moment, I being testing this by leaving once piece of rabbit meat inside a cabinet near the fire barrel, and another outside in a car trunk. just checked after a few days, the one meat piece inside says its at 82% the other in car trunk is at 90%. So yeah maybe it pays to store your food in your car trunks.

That is awesome Nicko, thanks for the testing and results.  I like to hold up in CH at the garage with a car near by .