Colder nights that requires fire

[dbldrew]

So how about having a harder difficulty setting that makes it so the nights are much colder so even indoors and with wolf jacket, deer pants boots, etc that you need to have a fire to keep the temp warm enough. It could be balanced so the Axe lasts a bit longer or have another way to make stone tools perhaps. The game can start out like normal so you have a chance to find/make tools. but the nights can get progressively colder the longer you go.

Having to manage wood would add another dynamic to the game.. currently once I have upgraded my clothes the game gets pretty easy even on stalker.  

[Patrick Carlson]

On 3/19/2016 at 1:00 PM, dbldrew said:

So how about having a harder difficulty setting that makes it so the nights are much colder so even indoors and with wolf jacket, deer pants boots, etc that you need to have a fire to keep the temp warm enough. It could be balanced so the Axe lasts a bit longer or have another way to make stone tools perhaps. The game can start out like normal so you have a chance to find/make tools. but the nights can get progressively colder the longer you go.

Having to manage wood would add another dynamic to the game.. currently once I have upgraded my clothes the game gets pretty easy even on stalker.  

Which indoor locations did you want to see having lower temperatures? There are currently some shelters that get cold enough to require a nice fire to stay warm, depending on the weather. Or do you just want to see the whole game world being made a bit more frigid?

--Patrick

[vancopower]

On 19.3.2016 at 9:00 PM, dbldrew said:

So how about having a harder difficulty setting that makes it so the nights are much colder so even indoors and with wolf jacket, deer pants boots, etc that you need to have a fire to keep the temp warm enough. It could be balanced so the Axe lasts a bit longer or have another way to make stone tools perhaps. The game can start out like normal so you have a chance to find/make tools. but the nights can get progressively colder the longer you go.

Having to manage wood would add another dynamic to the game.. currently once I have upgraded my clothes the game gets pretty easy even on stalker.  

Since fire is used for many things like making water, cooking, and making torches re-balancing the game to make fire more common would defeat that purpose. Also in order to survive the night you need at least 10 hours of fire time which means 10 firewood, that is almost 4 limbs which will require 3 hours of spending in the cold enough to almost kill you if you do it at once not to mention you have to find the limbs first. It will be almost impossible for you to do anything else.  However if you can fix up shelters make them more insulated that would be awesome idea. You have a goal fix up the shelter fast or burn wood every night until your supplies dwindle, yea I would understand that probably like it too, because I love challenges.  

[dbldrew]

2 hours ago, Patrick Carlson said:

Which indoor locations did you want to see having lower temperatures? There are currently some shelters that get cold enough to require a nice fire to stay warm, depending on the weather. Or do you just want to see the whole game world being made a bit more frigid?

--Patrick

everything colder would be good.. just thinking it being much colder at night would add a interesting dynamic

[hauteecolerider]

3 hours ago, Patrick Carlson said:

Which indoor locations did you want to see having lower temperatures? There are currently some shelters that get cold enough to require a nice fire to stay warm, depending on the weather. Or do you just want to see the whole game world being made a bit more frigid?

--Patrick

NOOOO!

It's challenging enough for me to build up a collection of fur clothing, let alone chop enough wood to keep from going into hypothermia (or stay above freezing if I do go into hypothermia). But I haven't yet been able to play more than 15 days on Voyager, soo that may change as I get better at the whole survival strategy thing. Perhaps an option added to the game levels where the next step up from Stalker mode would be F**K It's Cold! 

[dbldrew]

6 minutes ago, hauteecolerider said:

NOOOO!

It's challenging enough for me to build up a collection of fur clothing, let alone chop enough wood to keep from going into hypothermia (or stay above freezing if I do go into hypothermia). But I haven't yet been able to play more than 15 days on Voyager, soo that may change as I get better at the whole survival strategy thing. Perhaps an option added to the game levels where the next step up from Stalker mode would be F**K It's Cold! 

thats what I was thinking. make the pilgrim, voyager, and stalker stay the same. Just add in an even harder setting "frigid nights" or something like that.

 

That way it keeps it the same for those who like it. but adds an extra challenge for those looking for it to be harder.

[Drazon]

This seems to be one of those hardcore versus casual player -issues. I'd say that rather than adjusting the temperature to make it harder, there could be a game mode without spawning wild animals (or really, really limited spawning). That would make the end game more desperate. Thou, to work, the animals should leave trails that last until next snowstorm / X amount of time of Y m/s wind.

[Dirmagnos]

Unless devs make ambient temperatures inside of buildings more realistic, fire wise, i dont really see the point of addint any of it.

I used to live in a house without central heating, and normally you just fire up a wood stove in the evening for a couple of hours and it would keep ambient temperature inside a house on comfortable level for next 20-24 hours easy. Sure, they will be gradual heat loss, but it would take significant amount of time.

So it should be doable even in LD even with its small stoves, since most houses have rather small volumetric size(bigger house would mean less temperature gain, but also slower loss of heat) and log cabins are good in terms of insulation. And most good houses have only couple of small windows that are normally main source of heat loss.

Inside temperatures could use some adjustment as well, its way to warm right now in an average house(how can it be -2C, when theres -20C outside), not to mention completely absurd situation with caves(having a portable tent or sleeping bags with proper temperature bonuses would rectify this situation). Also timed heat output of various fire fuels would make harvesting limbs actually useful, instead of just living off sticks. Sticks - burn fast and hot, but in long run rather ineffective, would be good for cooking/water making. Logs would produce heat for considerably longer, good for long haul. With coal being most efficient on that part, since it can slowburn for hours if not days at the time. Right now once fire burns out, thats it, game over.

[dbldrew]

did a test run where I camped out in one of the fishing huts on coastal highway and I wanted to see if collecting enough firewood was possible. I went for 12 days. I used a improvised hatchet and made a fire every night for at least 10 hours. I killed 1 deer, 2 wolves, several rabbits and caught lots of fish. I had a stash of wood to cover at least 2 days. But the biggest problem I see is that I started the test with my hatchet at 100% and after 12 days its down to 36%. So being able to make a stone hatchet is a possibility or maybe increase the burn time indoors perhaps. But all in all it is a possibility

[Scyzara]

23 minutes ago, dbldrew said:

So being able to make a stone hatchet is a possibility or maybe increase the burn time indoors perhaps. But all in all it is a possibility

There's enough scrap metal in the game to forge more than 100 improvised hatchets given the rather unlikely case you'll ever need them. I always find it more than pointless how much people worry to run out of tools in this game. The vast majority of players doesn't even remotely survive long enough to ever run out of premade tools. Yet almost everyone worries to run out of both premade AND forged tools sooner or later.

The greatest irony about it is that exactly those very very few players who really DO the long 1000d+ leaderboard runs (and hence really run out of premade tools at some point) are the only ones NOT complaining about it. 

[dbldrew]

21 minutes ago, Scyzara said:

There's enough scrap metal in the game to forge more than 100 improvised hatchets given the rather unlikely case you'll ever need them. I always find it more than pointless how much people worry to run out of tools in this game. The vast majority of players doesn't even remotely survive long enough to ever run out of premade tools. Yet almost everyone worries to run out of both premade AND forged tools sooner or later.

The greatest irony about it is that exactly those very very few players who really DO the long 1000d+ leaderboard runs (and hence really run out of premade tools at some point) are the only ones NOT complaining about it. 

but with only having 1 forge you are limited to playing in or close to desolation point. Having another option to craft tools is never a bad thing. can make the stone tools last even less then the forged version. But I always get bored and start a new game long before I run out of tools anyway

[Ohbal]

You are not forced to play in or close to DP, just to go there from time to time. On my only trip to the forge I crafted 30 arrow heads, a couple of axes and a couple of knifes, but left these there as I have tons of premade tools scattered arround several locations. In my opinion is not only a good thing to be limited in this regard, its necessary, and I'll be glad to have more reasons to move around. At the moment this is the one and only limitation in the whole game, and its a rather small one. Even in Stalker I've found 3 axes and a couple of sharpening stones in ML. That'll keep me going for two months, easy.

[dbldrew]

6 minutes ago, Ohbal said:

You are not forced to play in or close to DP, just to go there from time to time. On my only trip to the forge I crafted 30 arrow heads, a couple of axes and a couple of knifes, but left these there as I have tons of premade tools scattered arround several locations. In my opinion is not only a good thing to be limited in this regard, its necessary, and I'll be glad to have more reasons to move around. At the moment this is the one and only limitation in the whole game, and its a rather small one. Even in Stalker I've found 3 axes and a couple of sharpening stones in ML. That'll keep me going for two months, easy.

I do the same thing. but when you have nights that require you to have 10+ hours of firewood making a long trek back to the forge makes it significantly more complicated. But again making more crafting options makes the game more interesting. If you dont want to use stone tools you could always not craft any right?

[Vhalkyrie]

Only reason I'm traveling to DP is to make arrowheads.  I'm at 95 days, but I have 8 hatchets, 6 knives and 10 whetstones.  I rarely use the hatchets (I rely mostly on sticks), so I'm still using the one I started the game with.  I have worn down 2 knives.  So 1 hatchet and 2 knives in 3 months.  At that rate, I won't even need to use my first whetstone until around 300-ish days.

And I haven't finished looting DP or Timberwolf. Nor have I made a summit run.

However, I did an experiment in a previous sandbox where I tried to keep a permanent fire running.  My best was 122 hours (5 days).  The biggest problem I ran into was not having enough logs to chop (I had more than enough), but hatchet wear.  There is at least one location that requires a fire running at night, as well the fishing huts, so if you live in those locations, your hatchet wear would be more significant.

[Ohbal]

I never said I don't want to use stone tools, I said is a good thing we cannot craft them

As a player, I tend to use any advantage on the system possible, so if you give me a way to skip the hike to DP, I'll probably take it. But that's precisely my point: not having the way to do it gives me a reason to hike to a certain point in the map to do something I can't do somewhere else, and thus provides some meaninful "quest" for my survivor.

[dbldrew]

5 minutes ago, Ohbal said:

I never said I don't want to use stone tools, I said is a good thing we cannot craft them

As a player, I tend to use any advantage on the system possible, so if you give me a way to skip the hike to DP, I'll probably take it. But that's precisely my point: not having the way to do it gives me a reason to hike to a certain point in the map to do something I can't do somewhere else, and thus provides some meaninful "quest" for my survivor.

well stone tools can be balanced because you can not sharpen them they dont last as long and it takes longer to harvest. so making the trek to the forge is still a good option. 

[Dirmagnos]

1 hour ago, Scyzara said:

The greatest irony about it is that exactly those very very few players who really DO the long 1000d+ leaderboard runs (and hence really run out of premade tools at some point) are the only ones NOT complaining about it. 

Thats because they play for a pointless number on a leaderboard, not fun. Generally more options and tools equals more varied gameplay, greater engagement in the world, more things to do, etc etc etc. My main issue with sandbox right now is that its just collect-it-all-and-quit type of game right now. There is hardly anything else to do besides scavenging.

Imo the more materials and items, the more crafting options and the more universal utilitari options(like why i can make arrows solely out of saplings and metal tips, why cant i take a stick, attack a piece of stone to it, some feathers and let it fly - sure, it may not be as good as "properly" made arrow, but it should be an option), the better. Practically anything is better than nothing. Necessity is mother of invention, as the saying goes. But apparently its not the case in LD.

Id like to be able to play game, not to just sleep/hunt like last idiot for some arbitrary achievement, that no1 really cares about. Current problem with the game is not lack of new maps, but severe lack of action in already exiting ones. Once i loot dry one area i just move to the next one and never look back since there is no point. There has been ton of various ideas how to make world more dynamic, but nothing came out of it.

[romerabr]

My 2 cents...

The could be a huge, massive blizzard, who builds up during a few days, with warning signals like really dark sky, voice warnings from the character ("there's a monter blizzard coming"), and that lasts for a few days, and we must prepare to it, gathering wood and food for at least a week. Even inside the houses, the temperature drops to -20C, or -30C and requires a fire lit all the time.

During the blizzard, we could find wood limbs around the house, so we can face it looking for wood, but it will be instant freeze.

 

And after the blizzard ends, we should have a few days of sun, so we can use to refill the stockpile.

[hauteecolerider]

Umm, I doubt anyone can tell the difference between a monster blizzard and a normal blizzard. From my personal perspective, a blizzard's a blizzard. We only know it's a monster from the weather reports and weather radar systems, which would be absent in TLD. 

Some time ago I read a very interesting book, Under a Flaming Sky, in which the author talks about the limitations of weather prediction in 1871, the time of the Great Hinckley Fire (and the Chicago Fire, which was less damaging). No one was aware of the convergence of conditions that led to the merging of two superfires (and a third lesser one, if I recall correctly) because no one could see beyond their own horizons. That was one of many lessons I carried with me from reading that book, and one I use to this day in my writing. It has also made me more aware of the sky and weather conditions, and how that does not always jibe with the weather reports, which look over a much wider area than my own limited personal observation.

[Dirmagnos]

Things havent really changed since 1871 in terms of weather prediction. At least not around here.

The most accurate prediction is "clear with periodic clouds" and that because it applies to almost any weather. Accuracy of the rest are no better than toss of a coin. For all intenses and purposes predicting weather with cartomancy is as accurate as "scientific method", but far more cheaper.