Reduce time to break down branches

[saxel]

I vote that instead of breaking branches into sticks that you be allowed to pick them up and carry them around as branches (with a weights equivalent to 2 sticks). But, since they may be too big to fit in a stove they would still have to be broken into sticks before they can be fed to a fire, then they would be broken down inside your inventory with an action button, preferably with an option to break down a large number at one time (preferably someplace warm).

I also vote that the time to break branches into sticks be lowered from 10 min to 2 min, or even 1 min while in possession of an axe.

I believe that this would increase realism and playability

[desrocchi]

Yes, branches really need an adjustment.

As it is, they're the most useless kind of fuel in the game.

[Loppysaurusrex]

IMO all the harvesting mechanics need to take less time, if I have a hatchet there's no way hacking up a dead tree limb will take me 45 minutes

AND THERE'S NO WAY BREAKING DOWN A BENCH WILL TAKE 2 HOURS.

To suggest that grabbing a branch with your bare hands and breaking it down will take 10 minutes is hilarious, no way, snap snap, would take me 30 seconds irl tops.

[DrMembrane]

+1

[desrocchi]

This is not about realism, it's about game mechanics.

For what it gives you, a branch yields too little in comparison of how many broken down sticks you can grab in the 10 minutes it itakes to brake it down.

So it may either take less time to brake or create more resources.

[Fuarian]

I've broken branches in a matter of 5 seconds. Seriously. It's not that hard and shouldn't take that long unless they are made of cement.

[Rooks_Nemesis]

I agree with decreasing the time for certain tasks. I made a post and have seen others posts about hatchets vs axes vs time vs materials.

The branches taking 10 minutes to get 2 is ridiculous. And in some situations ( until you find a hatchet ) your stuck spending the precious time in the cold with very little clothing. Which always leads to, break a branch go warm up. Break a branch go warm up. Gah

It taking 45 minutes to take down a shelf or stool/table is also unbelievable. Even if they where made of oak ( which they are not ) it would only take 10 - 20 minutes.

Breaking down the chairs however is about right IMO

And the time spent hacking away a limb all tho its a fairly big chunk of time is believable to an extent.. If it was frozen solid then sure! But if they did introduce a axe it would speed that up 10 fold. And then they could also add tree trunks the same way they added branches..

[Loppysaurusrex]

This is not about realism, it's about game mechanics.

For what it gives you, a branch yields too little in comparison of how many broken down sticks you can grab in the 10 minutes it itakes to brake it down.

So it may either take less time to brake or create more resources.

Pretty sure the game is about realism

[KD7BCH]

I think the idea of carrying the branch makes sense, no reason why we couldn't just use branches as another unit of stick only larger. What I'd like to see if the ability to pull off some pieces of wood without a hatchet from a tree that is downed because eventually the hatchet will run out and you will be forced to burn everything with sticks and branches

[desrocchi]

This is not about realism, it's about game mechanics.

For what it gives you, a branch yields too little in comparison of how many broken down sticks you can grab in the 10 minutes it itakes to brake it down.

So it may either take less time to brake or create more resources.

Pretty sure the game is about realism

Nope, every game is about gameplay.

Too realism and you go for a very boring game.

[Loppysaurusrex]

This is not about realism, it's about game mechanics.

For what it gives you, a branch yields too little in comparison of how many broken down sticks you can grab in the 10 minutes it itakes to brake it down.

So it may either take less time to brake or create more resources.

Pretty sure the game is about realism

Nope, every game is about gameplay.

Too realism and you go for a very boring game.

And reducing the time to break down branches is definitely the straw that breaks the camels back *rolls eyes*

[desrocchi]

What are you going on about?

I said it's about gameplay and not realism, I even said that reducing the time is one possible way to go for it.

But it's all about gameplay balancing, not realism.

[elloco999]

My thoughts on branches:

1. Lower the time to about 2.5 min per 1 stick gained.

2. Variable yield from 2 to 4 sticks per branch, just like tree limbs yield 3-5 logs.

3. If you have a hatchet with you the time should be reduced even further, but without degrading the hatchet or at least degrading it very very slowly. The idea here being you're using the back of the hatchet to break the branches, not using it's edge and branches not really being strong enough to damage the hatchet.

4. I would like the harvest mechanic for branches to be changed to the same mechanic as for mushrooms etc.

As a side note: I find it rather funny that we've been complaining about the lack of time consuming activities in TLD and now we're complaining things take too long

[Loppysaurusrex]

What are you going on about?

I said it's about gameplay and not realism, I even said that reducing the time is one possible way to go for it.

But it's all about gameplay balancing, not realism.

Well here's the thing bud, I never break branches, I skip them every time, why spend 10 minutes for two branches when I can spend 2 minutes walking over to an area with 5 sticks read to be harvested?

That says "unbalanced" to me

[elloco999]

What are you going on about?

I said it's about gameplay and not realism, I even said that reducing the time is one possible way to go for it.

But it's all about gameplay balancing, not realism.

Well here's the thing bud, I never break branches, I skip them every time, why spend 10 minutes for two branches when I can spend 2 minutes walking over to an area with 5 sticks read to be harvested?

That says "unbalanced" to me

Because I've depleted the area around my base of sticks before new sticks spawned plenty of times. And if I happen to have nothing better to do at the time and my clothes are sufficient to spend a few hours outside breaking branches, why not? It's free fuel, no need to wear down my hatchet chopping up tree limbs.

That said, I do think 10 min is too much for just 2 sticks.

[AmericanSteel]

Far and away the most effective material to collect are sticks. I am not even going to go into the calorie/min of work, weight of the load, distance to yield or other variables. I think time is a large enough resource based on exposure to the cold. If I have my burn to work time correct....

* Fir limb gives 3 fir in 45 min, which yields about 4.5 hours of heat or 1 min of heat for .17 min of work

* Cedar limb produces 3 cedar in 45 min, which yields about 3 hours of heat or 1 min of heat for .25 min of work

* A branch gives 2 sticks in 10 min, which yields about 14 min of heat or 1 min of heat .71 min of work

* In comparison a stick is about 1 min of heat for maybe .03 min of work.

Right now the most sensible thing to collect are sticks. Everything else is leaving your butt outside to freeze unnecessarily. That said, branches are the fools choice for heating. You are better off chopping cedar limbs all day long over branches. The devs need to give us at least three sticks for 3 min of work, which would drop the time to 1 min of heat for .14 min of work. That would not make it near as efficient as just gathering sticks but it would make it a better than chopping up a fir limb.

[Scyzara]

Far and away the most effective material to collect are sticks. I am not even going to go into the calorie/min of work, weight of the load, distance to yield or other variables. I think time is a large enough resource based on exposure to the cold. If I have my burn to work time correct....

* Fir limb gives 3 fir in 45 min, which yields about 4.5 hours of heat or 1 min of heat for .17 min of work

* Cedar limb produces 3 cedar in 45 min, which yields about 3 hours of heat or 1 min of heat for .25 min of work

* A branch gives 2 sticks in 10 min, which yields about 14 min of heat or 1 min of heat .71 min of work

* In comparison a stick is about 1 min of heat for maybe .03 min of work.

Right now the most sensible thing to collect are sticks. Everything else is leaving your butt outside to freeze unnecessarily. That said, branches are the fools choice for heating. You are better off chopping cedar limbs all day long over branches. The devs need to give us at least three sticks for 3 min of work, which would drop the time to 1 min of heat for .14 min of work. That would not make it near as efficient as just gathering sticks but it would make it a better than chopping up a fir limb.

Thanks for posting this calculation!

I agree to your conclusion that the number of sticks that can be foraged from branches should equal the number of minutes needed to break down the branch (e.g. 3 sticks for 3min or 5 sticks for 5min of work).

However, as there are already plenty of sticks lying around anyway (stick abundance ), I would probably even prefer to keep the current two sticks and simply decrease the harvesting time for branches from 10 to 2 minutes.^^

[AmericanSteel]

...as there are already plenty of sticks lying around anyway (stick abundance )...

Taking your line out of context, I don't think there are to many sticks. While there are a number of sticks laying out, that is not to say it is not like this in real life. Getting sticks for a fire is pretty darn easy out in the woods. Getting DRY material out in the woods is usually the hard part.

[changing scope]

If I had my druthers, I would have two types of wood: Wet and Dry. Wet wood is what we find outside right now. We should have a much harder time starting fires with it, it does not burn well (so it lasts a longer) but does not burn very hot. Also, throwing a lot of green wood on a fire does not make a bigger fire, it smothers it. Dry wood acts like the kindling we have now. Drying time would take a few days indoors or a few hours near an existing fire. This would make the wood we find inside houses and most reclaimed wood worth more at the onset of the game (as it burns hotter). It would prolong the initial building up stage of the game and give another resource we had to manage. You don't just jaunt out and get wood, you stock up on it for when you need it.

[end change]

[Going_Into_There]

This should be true into the game, i mean i could break down a branch irl and it would take like 5 minutes, but in this game its 30 minutes.

But the real point here is he/she not so strong? Like, are they not strong enough to break down a branch faster or something?

Or are they just to lazy to do it.

You know, i think instead of them implementing this into the game, they should make it when your very fatigued, it will take awhile to break down something, but when you aren't that fatigued, it will take much less time to break down something in the game. But for now, it isn't that realistic for breaking stuff down in the game, so i think they should add this into the game.

Or unless they are focusing on the mechanics instead of the realism, then thats a whole different story, but lets just stay in track for now.

[Scyzara]

...as there are already plenty of sticks lying around anyway (stick abundance )...

Taking your line out of context, I don't think there are to many sticks. While there are a number of sticks laying out, that is not to say it is not like this in real life. Getting sticks for a fire is pretty darn easy out in the woods. Getting DRY material out in the woods is usually the hard part.

I was talking about a stick abundance gameplay-wise, not regarding realism.

I'm well aware that in a real-life forest (especially in a non-cultivated one) even way more sticks and branches are lying around than in TLD. We have some decent natural forests over here as well, just way smaller than yours. ;p

I just find it a bit unfortunate gameplay-wise that picking up sticks while travelling between locations is almost sufficient to supply you with water and cooked meat. I was hardly ever really forced to harvest limbs as well, most of the time I could rely on the sticks I had picked up in passing (and add some reclaimed wood if necessary).

Regarding dried wood: Well, the game mechanics needed to dry wood are already there and I'd be happy if the devs ever decide to introduce dryable wood. The time needed to dry it should just better be way lower than in real life, otherwise hardly anyone would ever live long enough to finally burn his/her thoroughly dried wood.^^

[Boston123]

...as there are already plenty of sticks lying around anyway (stick abundance )...

Taking your line out of context, I don't think there are to many sticks. While there are a number of sticks laying out, that is not to say it is not like this in real life. Getting sticks for a fire is pretty darn easy out in the woods. Getting DRY material out in the woods is usually the hard part.

[changing scope]

If I had my druthers, I would have two types of wood: Wet and Dry. Wet wood is what we find outside right now. We should have a much harder time starting fires with it, it does not burn well (so it lasts a longer) but does not burn very hot. Also, throwing a lot of green wood on a fire does not make a bigger fire, it smothers it. Dry wood acts like the kindling we have now. Drying time would take a few days indoors or a few hours near an existing fire. This would make the wood we find inside houses and most reclaimed wood worth more at the onset of the game (as it burns hotter). It would prolong the initial building up stage of the game and give another resource we had to manage. You don't just jaunt out and get wood, you stock up on it for when you need it.

[end change]

Exactly. The fact that we build fires (directly on top of the snow, nonetheless!) out of wood we pick up from the snow=covered ground makes me go "What", every time we have to do it.

A stockpile of seasoned wood is a godsend.

[Pyro]

Adding 'wetness' factor to wood will make the game incredibly tough. For example; you are stuck in a blizzard and need to start a fire ASAP because you can't find a shelter and you are freezing to death. You have matches, fir wood but no sticks. So your chance of starting a fire is low. A stick will give you a higher chance of getting a fire going but wait it will not be possible to use it because it is 'wet'. So you are stuck wasting matches and time trying to get a fire going with the 'dry' fir wood you are carrying. So the only way to circumvent this scenario is drying a stick and to be constantly carrying one with you.

[AmericanSteel]

Adding 'wetness' factor to wood will make the game incredibly tough. For example; you are stuck in a blizzard and need to start a fire ASAP because you can't find a shelter and you are freezing to death. You have matches, fir wood but no sticks. So your chance of starting a fire is low. A stick will give you a higher chance of getting a fire going but wait it will not be possible to use it because it is 'wet'. So you are stuck wasting matches and time trying to get a fire going with the 'dry' fir wood you are carrying. So the only way to circumvent this scenario is drying a stick and to be constantly carrying one with you.

I never said it would be easy.

If you get caught out in a blizzard chances are it is going to be the death of you. If you don't have your extreme weather tent set up, you are in bad shape. If you don't have you snow cave dug, you are in bad shape. If you don't have a stock of wood to burn, you are in bad shape. If you are trying to get a fire going while the wind is howling right outside your minimal protection, you are in bad shape. There is a reason why the ill prepared usually end up in the worst condition when it all heads pear shaped. Prior planning prevents what?

Having to prep your wood more before using it will make the game harder. Just like having to cure hides has made the game harder. This is especially true with the apparent reduction of loot. I can see houses in the first few weeks of the game being scrounged for not only food but wood for fuel, which is what would really be happening. Another reason why I believe the devs need to allow us to forage for materials from burned out homes. For that matter, if I live near other homes... let me salvage them entirely just to keep my little cottage warm.

[Boston123]

Adding 'wetness' factor to wood will make the game incredibly tough. For example; you are stuck in a blizzard and need to start a fire ASAP because you can't find a shelter and you are freezing to death. You have matches, fir wood but no sticks. So your chance of starting a fire is low. A stick will give you a higher chance of getting a fire going but wait it will not be possible to use it because it is 'wet'. So you are stuck wasting matches and time trying to get a fire going with the 'dry' fir wood you are carrying. So the only way to circumvent this scenario is drying a stick and to be constantly carrying one with you.

Uh, yeah? The "dryness" of available firewood is a very real concern in a survival situation, especially when you have to get a fire going RIGHT NOW.

There are many different methods to either 1) lessen the effects of the wet wood, or 2) increase the effects of dry wood. They aren't that difficult

1) carry tinder in a place where it can't get wet. This is the big one. It is MUCH easier to start a fire when the tinder is dry, even if the fuelwood is wet. I, personally, carry all of my fire-starting materials in several different places around my body, with most (not all, in case something happens) of my tinder directly next to my skin, either in the armpit or the crotch. The high body heat in those locations dries tinder out fast, and keeps it dry.

2) Split wood lengthwise. This accomplishes two things.

--1: changes the "surface area / volume" ratio of the wood. Remember: when on fire, it isn't actually the wood that is burning, it is the gases given off by the wood when it is heated (look up "wood gasification). By splitting firewood, you change this ratio, and make it both easier and faster to start fires with the wood. NOTE: this is why you split firewood, either with an axe or a logsplitter.

--2) exposes the drier inner wood. Usually, unless the wood has gotten REALLY wet, there is some part of the interior of the piece that is still dry by splitting the piece lengthwise, you expose this dry bit, AND make it more likely the wet bit will dry.

3) Stack/bundle the wood somewhere dry and warm. I prefer up by the ceiling of a shelter/cabin (for tinder), or inside in general (for fuel). By exposing the wood to heat, you are driving out the moisture in the wood. On a campfire, you could stack up wet wood around the fire-lay; essentially, make a "log-cabin" of the wet wood around the "teepee" of the fire.

4) build the fire on "something", not the ground. When you build a fire right on the surface (ground, snow, etc):

--1: the moisture in the surface gets sucked up into the wood

--2: the "heat" from the fire gets sucked out of the coals, and into the ground

--3: any melting snow gets absorbed into the wood.

I generally prefer carrying around a 1ft x 1ft piece of scrap metal to build fires on. Trust me: the weight is inconsequential compared to the ease of firefighting it provides. Without that, I would heap up branches, or pile up rocks, and build the fire on that. Anything except for the straight snow/ground.

[elloco999]

I think wet wood is a good idea. Having to dry it shouldn't make the game too hard, the only thing would be that you need to carry some dry stuff with you to start a fire in case of an emergency. I already do that, so no problem there.

I do think that if wet wood is introduced we should also be able to split that wood like Boston123 said, to expose the dry inner core of the wood to be able to light it better.

I, personally, carry all of my fire-starting materials in several different places around my body, with most (not all, in case something happens) of my tinder directly next to my skin, either in the armpit or the crotch. The high body heat in those locations dries tinder out fast, and keeps it dry.

How exactly do you carry tinder in your armpits? I mean, would it not fall out when you move your arms? (Not trying to be funny, I'm being serious for a change )