Temporarily Removing the Cougar

[Leeanda]

1 minute ago, Africanboi7 said:

I think yesterday's update was 2.29, which I think was the update before they removed the cougar.

I'd already had the main update on Tuesday morning.. 

[Africanboi7]

4 minutes ago, Leeanda said:

I'd already had the main update on Tuesday morning.. 

On steam it says I'm on v.2.30, while Xbox still says v2.29. I believe Raph said the console update will be here this week, but I might be wrong.

[Leeanda]

5 minutes ago, Africanboi7 said:

On steam it says I'm on v.2.30, while Xbox still says v2.29. I believe Raph said the console update will be here this week, but I might be wrong.

Oh.. well I don't know what this update was for then...  I'll have to check which version I'm on tomorrow.

 

[UTC-10]

Version 2.30 is where the Cougar was temporarily removed.  

[Veskaida]

It saddens me to see so much negativity about a game I've spent so long playing and love. I enjoyed the original implementation of the cougar, but I'm also proud of Hinterlands removing it if it didn't meet expectations. So thank you Hinterlands, for taking the  high road and putting so much time and effort into this game, and please don't let the negativity get to you: I'm proud and thankful for The Long Dark and I know many others are as well.

[Even Dark]

 

But that doesn't change anything. 
The Long Dark is by far the best surviving game. I don't like some things either
e.g. Some regions (structure) the Cougar as it was. But these are all just crumbs of the cake.
In the end, you can always work around it and enjoy the game.. 
You always have the freedom to decide what you do in the game in order to survive. 
It's great that Hinterland is rethinking the Cougar, you also have to understand the players who want to hunt XD. 
I have collected now a few hours of playing time and this for fair price, so in my opinion
Hinterland has done everything right.
You don't get the impression that it's about quick money, but rather that the gaming experience of the majority of players is in the foreground

It's great that companies like this still exist!

sorry google translate, if you find a mistake you can keep it.

[Luca Loquax]

Hooray for Hinterland actually caring about the players!   Yay!

[past caring]

One thing - not directly on the topic of the cougar, because it has been and gone before I've had chance to encounter it - but one thing that does repeatedly come up is the issue of people being insulting or confrontational. Something I've noticed about this is that it is often (not always, but often) the case that some who appear to communicate in this way seem to be non-native English speakers. I think that is something that should be borne in mind - those who are not native English speakers will perhaps have a communication style that stems from their culture and how words are spoken and understood in that culture. And when having to translate, either in their own heads or via an app, any nuance can get lost. There's lots of ways the human race communicates - in some cultures that will be very direct and that can appear as if there is an intention to insult or undermine when there isn't. I've travelled in central and Eastern Europe for a number of years now and I'm still surprised and pulled up short when people don't routinely say 'please' or 'thank you' in shops or restaurants etc. But there is absolutely no intention to be rude or brusque - it's just not part of the culture.

Just sayin'.

[Leeanda]

13 minutes ago, past caring said:

One thing - not directly on the topic of the cougar, because it has been and gone before I've had chance to encounter it - but one thing that does repeatedly come up is the issue of people being insulting or confrontational. Something I've noticed about this is that it is often (not always, but often) the case that some who appear to communicate in this way seem to be non-native English speakers. I think that is something that should be borne in mind - those who are not native English speakers will perhaps have a communication style that stems from their culture and how words are spoken and understood in that culture. And when having to translate, either in their own heads or via an app, any nuance can get lost. There's lots of ways the human race communicates - in some cultures that will be very direct and that can appear as if there is an intention to insult or undermine when there isn't. I've travelled in central and Eastern Europe for a number of years now and I'm still surprised and pulled up short when people don't routinely say 'please' or 'thank you' in shops or restaurants etc. But there is absolutely no intention to be rude or brusque - it's just not part of the culture.

Just sayin'.

I understand where you're coming from and of course we take that into account..if we have doubts we ask people to clarify...

However that doesn't excuse everything..  people still have to abide by the forum rules and guidelines..

Moderators aren't monsters,just good old regular human beings.😊

[Leeanda]

12 hours ago, Africanboi7 said:

On steam it says I'm on v.2.30, while Xbox still says v2.29. I believe Raph said the console update will be here this week, but I might be wrong.

I'm still on v2.29 so I don't know what the third part of the update was for.

[Even Dark]

2 hours ago, Luca Loquax said:

Hooray for Hinterland actually caring about the players!   Yay!

Come on, sarcasm but it's not always like that and it's not that easy either. thee biggest example is resetting all old runs to the time capsule. painfull
You couldn't play the new game with graphics and animations = that was bad

or the DLC = just this? that would be ok....

and that costs more or less a lot of invested playing time to startover

a small example sundered pass the moose and bear location, fishing hut surrounded by timberwolves.. 
Experienced players can handle it or, as in my case, simply ignore it, but it is not suitable for casual players pursuing the quest 

Edited Sunday at 11:46 AM by Even Dark

[Luca Loquax]

NO SARCASM!

Today we seem to be swallowed by massive mega-corps that do not even see us as numbers.

For folks with actual faces and names to care about our experience and to be THIS responsive, practically in real-time is vanishingly rare; darn near extinct.

I have been with Raph and TLD since the whole game was just Mystery Lake region.  I think I paid $14.99 USD for early access and checking my steam account... I am up to 4,500 hours played.  The paid DLC is still a drop in the bucket re value per cost ratio. 

Raph and Devs are not just working at their job, they really care about their creation and us; the least we can do is be grateful that Raph did not take a huge payout from Mega-lo-corp and turn TLD into just another "ip". 

I am NOT diminishing your invalidating your concerns!  I lost a 1000+ day survival game to a stoopid glitch and I get it.

Please remember how much less of an experience and community we would have if issues were forwarded to bad.support.@megacorp.com/tld/ 

Thank you Raph!

Thank you Devs!

Thank you to the Mighty, Undefeated Leeanda for moderatorfication!

Thanks to all of you for being awesome companions in the Silent Apocalypse.

Mmmm cougar stew....

[Leeanda]

@Luca Loquax   thank you....  I'm not the only moderator though.@manicmaniac  deserves more credit.

. I couldn't do it without @ManicManiac or @Raphael van Lierop ..

 

Also well said on the rest😊

Edited Sunday at 03:04 PM by Leeanda

[ThePancakeLady]

1 hour ago, Luca Loquax said:

moderatorfication!

Okay- that word wins the Internet today. Or at least some 🥞.

[Pyroxene]

I hope they add a botanical garden to the next region, @Raphael van Lierop

[Leeanda]

26 minutes ago, Pyroxene said:

I hope they add a botanical garden to the next region, @Raphael van Lierop

While I love your enthusiasm this is off topic and already in the wish list..

Please keep to the topic..

[Leeanda]

I do have one question....  Not for me personally as I'm happy getting mauled , except by bears, but other pilgrim players might want the chance to hunt the cougar without the same risks as the harder difficulties... And of course get the knife and hood. Is there a way to have both without the definite and very serious damage ..?

[ThePancakeLady]

15 minutes ago, Leeanda said:

I do have one question....  Not for me personally as I'm happy getting mauled , except by bears, but other pilgrim players might want the chance to hunt the cougar without the same risks as the harder difficulties... And of course get the knife and hood. Is there a way to have both without the definite and very serious damage ..?

The Ballistic Vest doesn't stop all damage, but it does seem to prevent the Severe Lacerations afflictions the few times I was able to test before the Cougar was removed. Still a bit of a pain to haul around, even with a travois in Stalker (makes you slow and vulnerable), but probably not as bad in Pilgrim.

I don't know that they could add fear in the same way that wolves and other animals have fear- the Cougar felt like it was a blend of hostile wildlife + territorial critter (Bear + Moose?). Making it completely passive in Pilgrim just doesn't feel right to me- territorial Moose will still stomp you in Pilgrim if you keep getting in their face and I've unexpectedly found myself in a wolf struggle in Pilgrim when I stepped the character backward onto a wolf that made a kill right behind me, but it does feel like it is a bit too hostile and does too much damage in Pilgrim- a mode some people play to just observe the dying world while still having to take care of basic survival needs, rather than constantly fighting against it. But it also doesn't feel right to me to make it super easy to "hunt" in Pilgrim only. Maybe if they added more fear to the Cougar in Pilgrim- it will still attack, but it takes much longer before it will, and the mauling lasts a shorter time, with the Cougar quitting and running off more quickly so you take less overall damage, with a lower chance of Severe Lacerations and infections? Your clothing will still get shredded, but your body won't take as hard of a hit? Same red vision and fumbling after it ends and you get a chance to take a parting shot at it?

Not sure. The devs have a lot of complicated choices to make on this.

 

[Leeanda]

4 minutes ago, ThePancakeLady said:

The Ballistic Vest doesn't stop all damage, but it does seem to prevent the Severe Lacerations afflictions the few times I was able to test before the Cougar was removed. Still a bit of a pain to haul around, even with a travois in Stalker (makes you slow and vulnerable), but probably not as bad in Pilgrim.

I don't know that they could add fear in the same way that wolves and other animals have fear- the Cougar felt like it was a blend of hostile wildlife + territorial critter (Bear + Moose?). Making it completely passive in Pilgrim just doesn't feel right to me- territorial Moose will still stomp you in Pilgrim if you keep getting in their face and I've unexpectedly found myself in a wolf struggle in Pilgrim when I stepped the character backward onto a wolf that made a kill right behind me, but it does feel like it is a bit too hostile and does too much damage in Pilgrim- a mode some people play to just observe the dying world while still having to take care of basic survival needs, rather than constantly fighting against it. But it also doesn't feel right to me to make it super easy to "hunt" in Pilgrim only. Maybe if they added more fear to the Cougar in Pilgrim- it will still attack, but it takes much longer before it will, and the mauling lasts a shorter time, with the Cougar quitting and running off more quickly so you take less overall damage, with a lower chance of Severe Lacerations and infections? Your clothing will still get shredded, but your body won't take as hard of a hit? Same red vision and fumbling after it ends and you get a chance to take a parting shot at it?

Not sure. The devs have a lot of complicated choices to make on this.

 

I agree..  very difficult...   But I was only thinking from a pilgrim players stance..most of which seem not to have said much about the cougar...  I thought,whether rightly or wrongly that that is something they've thought about themselves but didn't want to ask..

As I said I don't mind being mauled,I got into a scrap with a wolf this morning actually lol..he ate my togue😁.  But to either just have no cougar or a full on near deadly attack seems a bit ...unfair i suppose.

My ballistic vest is in the fridge where it's been for 700+ days lol...I can't afford the extra weight,I'm a loot goblin..

[Pyroxene]

2 hours ago, Leeanda said:

While I love your enthusiasm this is off topic and already in the wish list..

Please keep to the topic..

Ok, I'll keep that in mind... Sticking to the title topic.

[Leeanda]

14 minutes ago, Pyroxene said:

Ok, I'll keep that in mind... Sticking to the title topic.

Thank you😊

[ThePancakeLady]

20 minutes ago, Leeanda said:

agree..  very difficult...   But I was only thinking from a pilgrim players stance..most of which seem not to have said much about the cougar...  I thought,whether rightly or wrongly that that is something they've thought about themselves but didn't want to ask..

As I said I don't mind being mauled,I got into a scrap with a wolf this morning actually lol..he ate my togue😁.  But to either just have no cougar or a full on near deadly attack seems a bit ...unfair i suppose.

My ballistic vest is in the fridge where it's been for 700+ days lol...I can't afford the extra weight,I'm a loot goblin..

"Loot goblin"- I am keeping that phrase, than you. And I am going to use it (muttered in my own head) in every aRPG I play now too, lol.

I was thinking along the lines of how clothing damage, body damage, struggle duration and such are scaled through the different experience modes, but no chance to avoid being mauled when the timer expires. Just less overall damage dealt to you and your gear, but not tied to the same Custom Settings as struggle damage for other toothy/clawed critters (which means more work for the devs- ugh?). Nt too many Pilgrim-only players talking about Cougar encounters on Steam either- I suspect many just disabled it, knowing they would take a huge beating if they had to deal with one. I normally play vanilla Stalker, and enjoy playing the game as a stealth game- avoid and evade rather than trying to face-tank my way through the world. But I do occasionally play Interloper, or Voyageur, and Pilgrim is my preferred mode for "zen time". And I would like to have the Cougar in my Pilgrim saves- just at a lower level of unzennification.

[Leeanda]

3 minutes ago, ThePancakeLady said:

"Loot goblin"- I am keeping that phrase, than you. And I am going to red in my own head) in every aRPG I play now too, lol.

I was thinking along the lines of how clothing damage, body damage, struggle duration and such are scaled through the different experience modes, but no chance to avoid being mauled when the timer expires. Just less overall damage dealt to you and your gear, but not tied to the same Custom Settings as struggle damage for other toothy/clawed critters (which means more work for the devs- ugh?). Nt too many Pilgrim-only players talking about Cougar encounters on Steam either- I suspect many just disabled it, knowing they would take a huge beating if they had to deal with one. I normally play vanilla Stalker, and enjoy playing the game as a stealth game- avoid and evade rather than trying to face-tank my way through the world. But I do occasionally play Interloper, or Voyageur, and Pilgrim is my preferred mode for "zen time". And I would like to have the Cougar in my Pilgrim saves- just at a lower level of unzennification.

Lol.., I wish I could take credit but alas it's not mine..   every time I hear it though I think of lord of the rings😁  

I'm not sure but I think there is a small difference between difficulties,but only 5-10%.  Not including the laceration damages ..   if I'm wrong I'd love to know, most of not all info I've seen  is based on loper.

But it's own damage settings would be a good idea...  But also as you say a lot of extra work for the team.   

 

[phobiac]

I personally thought that cougar would be implemented in a way that would literally stalk u like a prey and you would be able to see it peaking from somewhere or ull have to try and scare it of which wouldnt always work. Dosent really make sense for cougar to follow the player but it would rather make more sense for player to stumble into cougars territory without knowing it, so no icons no nothing just by sound or u might catch a glimpse of something passing somewhere. Player getting straight up jump scared it is kinda disappointing. What it is even more disappointing is that we actually got cougar removed now which honestly Hinterland i would rather waited another 3 months for update then for things to go this way. Would also be nice that play could actually go into cougars cave or den... What im trying to say is that it feels cheap and rushed, and i dont thin u guys are fully happy with it ether. My best advise for cougar is that dont let the player know. Best fear is fear of unknown. In my opinion player shouldnt be aware that hes getting into cougars territory but we would be forced to keep our eyes wide open and listen for every sound and noise. Clues that player is in cougar territory should be more obvious at lower difficulty and on loper and misery well really hard to sopt or hear. One more thing i wanted to say was i really dont like how afflictions on misery are timed i wish there were spam of lets say 80 days in which u can get every affliction. Just wish they were completely random from maybe day 5 till day 80. Would be more fun and risky because u never know and u have to be ready on it anytime.

[Veskaida]

 

37 minutes ago, phobiac said:

I personally thought that cougar would be implemented in a way that would literally stalk u like a prey and you would be able to see it peaking from somewhere or ull have to try and scare it of which wouldnt always work.

Yes, would like to see more capability for interaction with the Cougar. All other wildlife (except crows) have multiple ways to interact (e.g. rabbit/deer can be scared by proximity/thrown stones to distract black wolves). The Cougar had only two possible methods of interaction: spending time or bombing it's den, which I feel are more binary than other mobs since those two player actions are (usually) in different regions.

IMO Hinterland's design philosophy for TLD is that all wildlife should be mechanically distinct, and the Cougar followed this trend (rather than e.g. being a reskinned wolf). What you're describing sounds closer to a black Wolf, which maybe is fair since that might add more interactability, but I hope Cougars remain very distinct. I favor more distinct mobs like Timberwolves and Poisoned Wolves over more Wolf-Life mobs such as the Bear/Moose. If the Cougar was identical to as- implemented, but also spawned a mob near the player (outside of FOV) which charged them (perhaps with multiple fake-outs) that would be much more interesting and engaging. Or if it existed like a more traditional mob in the gameworld, but when the player was nearby it would stalk them at long ranges (outside of bow/rifle range) that could be interesting.

26 minutes ago, phobiac said:

Dosent really make sense for cougar to follow the player but it would rather make more sense for player to stumble into cougars territory without knowing it

I'd argue all of Great Bear Island is the Cougar's territory so by existing in the gameworld the survivor is "encroaching", and moving around (faster than the Cougar's encroachment period) keeps the survivor under the Cougar's radar.

Also, some of this uncertainty about 'knowing the animal's territory' is already being addressed with the upcoming Tales Part 5 "Wildlife Refresh".

39 minutes ago, phobiac said:

... so no icons no nothing just by sound or u might catch a glimpse of something passing somewhere.

Don't think this is a good idea. Maybe for a passive mob, challenge mode, or a mob/event dedicated to an Achievement, or easter egg but low feedback on a hostile mob (especially a "boss" mob like the Cougar was) could be very frustrating and give little/no room for teaching players the game's mechanics.

There is also the issue of disabled players: like the deaf or colorblind, so I don't think even 'subtitles' is enough: there should be some UI element like the "Cougar Enroaching", "Cougar Threat Arrived", and red "Cougar Head" icon, or like the Timberwolves "Morale Meter".