Snares should work in Ptarmigan nests

[JerimiahSettle]

Snares should work on Ptarmigans. Just have the spawn a Ptarmigan carcass when placed in Ptarmigan nests. Even the description of the snare says "works on small game". I qualify the noble bird as such, and therefore should fall prey to my snares.

Amazing game though! Truly an immersive, beautifully harsh experience that I can't wait to get more of

 

Edited November 21, 2023 by JerimiahSettle

[Leeanda]

That would be a good idea... I don't use stones at all, and they are so hard to see that until level 5 archery they're pretty much uncatchable .a further use for the snares  would be worth making more for.

[ManicManiac]

@Leeanda
Thank you for the reminder... I have yet to hunt them at all.
Perhaps after Blackrock. 🤔

[ManicManiac]

@JerimiahSettle
To be fair... bird snares tend to look quite a bit different from rabbit snares. 

[JerimiahSettle]

I don't care, and I don't think others would either. Also, new bird snare craftable if it is an issue, either way.

Edited November 22, 2023 by JerimiahSettle

[Leeanda]

8 minutes ago, ManicManiac said:

@Leeanda
Thank you for the reminder... I have yet to hunt them at all.
Perhaps after Blackrock. 🤔

I hope you have fun with them....     I know there are a lot in ash ,I've heard them lol..

[ManicManiac]

10 minutes ago, JerimiahSettle said:

I don't care

Fair enough...  
I wasn't disagreeing with you, per se... just offering another angle to consider.

[Enigmaecho]

1 hour ago, JerimiahSettle said:

Snares should work on Ptarmigans. Just have the spawn a Ptarmigan carcass when placed in Ptarmigan nests. Even the description of the snare says "works on small game". I qualify the noble bird as such, and therefore should fall prey to my snares.

Amazing game though! Truly an immersive, beautifully harsh experience that I can't wait to get more of

 

You would need a different type of snare, birds are caught with spring pole snares, and pitfalls with spring hinge lids or deadfalls, that said I would love to have more primitive traps and a skill line to go with 

[JerimiahSettle]

@Enigmaecho

Wolf's dont typically attack people, and yet in the game, they do.

The opening screen even says that the game takes creative liberties, and I think this is another creative instance, just let the snare work, it's a game.

[Enigmaecho]

57 minutes ago, JerimiahSettle said:

@Enigmaecho

Wolf's dont typically attack people, and yet in the game, they do.

The opening screen even says that the game takes creative liberties, and I think this is another creative instance, just let the snare work, it's a game.

They take a lot of liberties which is fine because it’s a game just making the trap catch birds for the sake of letting it do so isn’t so much taking liberties as being lazy and if they HAD wanted to make snares catch them they would have done so in the testing and balancing phase of developing them or they would have added a bird snare with the tip-up fisher, it wasn’t evident at first but the fire hardened arrows seem to have been made specifically for the ptarmigans as missing a shot with them doesnt startle the flock and if you are crouched you can literally stand on the things before they fly away 

[JerimiahSettle]

@Enigmaecho

So... you dont like it because you think it's lazy? Which is weird. 

Also, can't crouch and shoot with a bow until archery level 5, of which most probably will not attain as it does take a bit of time to get. 

[James Hickok]

7 hours ago, Enigmaecho said:

You would need a different type of snare, birds are caught with spring pole snares, and pitfalls with spring hinge lids or deadfalls, that said I would love to have more primitive traps and a skill line to go with 

Never heard of  a bird snare but im not a hunter nor do i live in countries that have em but would be nice to have that snare. 

Is it possible to catch a ptarmigan in a snare ? I always thought that only shotgun or a scoped rifle>?

[Jotunheim]

Bird snares have been used for centuries here in Scandinavia at least.  

[hozz1235]

I like the idea.

[AdamvR]

On 11/22/2023 at 12:44 AM, JerimiahSettle said:

Snares should work on Ptarmigans. Just have the spawn a Ptarmigan carcass when placed in Ptarmigan nests. Even the description of the snare says "works on small game". I qualify the noble bird as such, and therefore should fall prey to my snares.

Amazing game though! Truly an immersive, beautifully harsh experience that I can't wait to get more of

 

I've had the same idea when I encountered them a few weeks ago as started to play again after 2.23.
Followed the exact same logic even ("small game"), and the fact that various indigenous peoples do use snares to catch these birdies.

Since then I've gotten convinced, that it is not necessary, or even, better without:
- the birdies are more valuable than the rabbits (you can turn them into non-smelling food + the down is pretty useful adding a few more degrees, especially at the beginning of a run).
- Giving them "for free" via the snares would be a bit of an overkill I find.
- The best way to hunt them is using FH Arrows and a bow, which you can get at around day 5-6 in a new run, unless you find one earlier; or are so unlucky (as I was) to not find a maple branch for weeks...
- Even if they seem tricky at first to get with the FHA (I sucked pretty hard trying to hit them at the beginning) - you can get very accurate with really just a bit of practice, and finding the way you can do it best. No need for crouching either! I've levelled up my archery by hunting these guys (and rabbits).
For hints on how to hit them, see the spoiler area. Good luck!

 

- Try to stay out of their detection area, you do not need to get close to hit them
(Once at night I actually sneaked closer, put down in the snow a lit lamp - so I could also see them, not only hear... - crouched back to a distance, and shot them standing)
- Wait for the "sitting grouse" - they will always sit down soon enough if feel undisturbed. It is enough if you only see their heads. Often, they run behind grass and sit down there.
- Aim under them, and correct a bit for strong winds (I find the FHA to be more influenced by the wind, at least when the skill is still low)
- They are quite patient, if you just miss them, they still stay at the same spot, so you can try again, they only get fed up after 3-4 missed hits)
- If you have a lit torch while approaching them, put it down the ground by selecting it from your backpack, as opposed to just selecting your bow. The latter would throw the torch to the ground and startle them)

Nevertheless, if a snare option comes, I'll give it a try.
But, to be honest, even for rabbits I prefer the FHA, rarely use the snare after I have a bow.
It just takes some practice to get to the point of taking down the whole coop.

Edited November 23, 2023 by AdamvR

[Enigmaecho]

On 11/21/2023 at 11:22 PM, JerimiahSettle said:

@Enigmaecho

So... you dont like it because you think it's lazy? Which is weird. 

Also, can't crouch and shoot with a bow until archery level 5, of which most probably will not attain as it does take a bit of time to get. 

I don’t think it’s weird. Hinterland has worked very hard to blend game and realism and so to just change the way a trap functions to just say “now this snare counts as all small game snare” for the sake of allowing ptarmigans to be caught in them would run counter to those design efforts, the way that trap works is a rabbit runs through it and the wire noose knots it’s neck and it tightens as the rabbit flails around birds don’t sprint they fly so you need a trap that self tightens thus a spring pole, the bird lands on the trigger stick and the noose snaps around its feet, it’s not like the items to make a spring pole aren’t available you need a few sticks, a sapling, gut cord and scrap metal and so again if they had wanted to they would have in dev and if they were going to I’d rather they just implement the proper trap and a trappers skill line than to just say “sorry some of you are so bad at hunting ptarmigans we had to alter the game mechanics so the rabbit snare catches them” 

 

and to address archery, you need to be level 5 to crouch and hunt but you don’t need to be level 5 to crouch and retrieve your arrows if you miss without startling the flock and archery 5 should be one of the first skills you hit in less than 100 days in the run especially now that they’ve added the ptarmigan so the chance to bow hunt has significantly increased 🤷🏻‍♂️

Edited November 23, 2023 by Enigmaecho
More context

[Leeanda]

Some of us don't have great eyesight or like /aren't good with the bow..     stones are only good for one throw,unless you miss then they scarper..

 

I don't see the snare not acting in the same way as they do for bunnies..the birds do run to some extent and could get caught in them just the same.

[AdamvR]

12 minutes ago, Leeanda said:

the birds do run to some extent and could get caught in them just the same.

indeed, they do...:
(although it feels pretty cruel to me to do it irl...)

source.: 

 

Edited November 23, 2023 by AdamvR

[Leeanda]

8 minutes ago, AdamvR said:

indeed, they do...:
(although it feels pretty cruel to me to do it irl...)

source.: 

 

I'm anti hunting anyway  but I get it's necessary in some parts of the world.. ..

I could see that trap being easy enough to make in game though..  1 branch maybe (it'd be neat to use them for something other than just firewood) and a gut or two..

[UpUpAway95]

TBH, I seldom ever use the rabbit snares, so I really can't see me using ptarmigan ones if they are introduced.  For me, stones are handy enough and I've not had much difficulty getting enough feathers to make the body insulation and to insulate a bedroll. 

Loper runs are about the only time I bother with a bow.  On those runs, using the fire-hardened arrows is handy for levelling archery without draining the materials needed for the regular arrows.

Also with stones or the fire-hardened arrows, I don't have to worry about getting back to the site the next day (My experience with the rabbit traps is that if I don't get back to the site the next day, anything caught has decayed and the traps are generally ruined at that point as well).  I would also suggest that one ptarmigan struggling in a snare should be enough to scare away the rest of the flock anyways.

That said, I have no objection to either suggestion - making the rabbit snares work on ptarmigan or making a special ptarmigan snare; so I guess I'm one of the people in the "don't care" category on this one.

[JerimiahSettle]

@UpUpAway95

See, I don't play loper as I am still new-ish to this game and I like being able to use all the item the game has, not just a certain few things.

But when it come to ptarmagans, I do have bad eyesight, so they are hard to see and hit, stones can be used, but once you throw one, even if you hit or miss, the other birds tend to startle and fly away resulting in only one bird if you're lucky.  Also, a bird in a snare flailing about might scare others away sure. But the rabbit doesn't do that in the game, so there's no reason for the bird to do it. Besides, the snare spawns a dead animal, not a live one. 

[UpUpAway95]

45 minutes ago, JerimiahSettle said:

@UpUpAway95

See, I don't play loper as I am still new-ish to this game and I like being able to use all the item the game has, not just a certain few things.

But when it come to ptarmagans, I do have bad eyesight, so they are hard to see and hit, stones can be used, but once you throw one, even if you hit or miss, the other birds tend to startle and fly away resulting in only one bird if you're lucky.  Also, a bird in a snare flailing about might scare others away sure. But the rabbit doesn't do that in the game, so there's no reason for the bird to do it. Besides, the snare spawns a dead animal, not a live one. 

However, if you're going for any sort of realistic imagining about how the snare works, it doesn't catch a dead one, but a live one who later dies in the trap.  So, I'm pretty sure the rabbits likely struggle for a little bit although we never see that animated in the game.  

Similarly, why does a stone thrown that misses everything scare away the entire flock of ptarmigans and they don't come back immediately like the rabbits do?  Likely because HL wants to limit our ability to catch ptarmigans to one at a time for the most part and not make to too OP or easy.  If they introduce snares, the could easily apply that restriction by limiting the capture rate to one trap no matter how many are set within a "flock-size" radius.

At any rate - I said I had no objection to either suggestion, but I'm still unlikely to use it.  That is all.

ETA:  I wasn't always as good as I am now at stone throwing.  I've gotten lots and lots of practice doing 50-day one-zone runs where for most of them, stones are the only weapon you've got.  I have the best success hitting ptarmigans (and other animals with any weapon) if I line up the one I want to hit in the center of the screen.  It seems like the hit zone is a little more forgiving in that area.

Edited November 23, 2023 by UpUpAway95

[JerimiahSettle]

@UpUpAway95 

You say you have no objection, yet here you are, trying to pick it apart. So keep that lie to yourself.

And...you mentioned realism, when this game IS NOT REAL, it even tells you that.

Also, how is catching to many Ptarmagans "OP"? First of all, if I wanna hunt down all the birds, rabbits, or whatever, I will. Second, their feathers are for two niche items (insulation and bedroll), both items of which, personally I rarely use as just better items are available for the two accessory slots ( Also third accessory slot!. And make downs be able to be broken down into feathers for arrows) Third, their meat is the same as rabbit really. You can make broth with it granted you have ALL the items needed for it. Maybe I'm missing something, but I fail to see how its game breaking. 

[James Hickok]

On 11/22/2023 at 1:33 PM, Jotunheim said:

Bird snares have been used for centuries here in Scandinavia at least.  

Cool. 

16 hours ago, AdamvR said:

indeed, they do...:
(although it feels pretty cruel to me to do it irl...)
 

Yeah snares are one of the worst ways of hunting an animal. They struggle for hours until they die. I would only do it if i were in the same situation as presented in the game in RL. 

22 hours ago, AdamvR said:

Nevertheless, if a snare option comes, I'll give it a try.
But, to be honest, even for rabbits I prefer the FHA, rarely use the snare after I have a bow.
It just takes some practice to get to the point of taking down the whole coop.

I still hunt rabbits with stones - i dont know if its a habit or......it just feels better for me.

Ptarmigans on the other hand i use FHA even if im not archery 5. I only use stone if i dont have the bow yet. 

8 hours ago, JerimiahSettle said:

 

Second, their feathers are for two niche items (insulation and bedroll), both items of which, personally I rarely use as just better items are available for the two accessory slots.

Correct me if im wrong - i dont play below loper. The insulation is actually the best warmth item to put in the accessory slot. Improved bedroll is the best bedroll to have - almost as warm as bear and just a little bit heavier than standard bedroll - for me its a WIN. 

Are there better items on Pilgrim, Voyager, Stalker? 

[AdamvR]

56 minutes ago, James Hickok said:

I still hunt rabbits with stones - i dont know if its a habit or......it just feels better for me.

i believe it is entirely a personal preference thing, and happy the game has multiple options:)
(I do not need to run to the bunny, and especially not break its neck... that makes arrows preferable for me)
 

56 minutes ago, James Hickok said:

Correct me if im wrong - i dont play below loper. The insulation is actually the best warmth item to put in the accessory slot. Improved bedroll is the best bedroll to have - almost as warm as bear and just a little bit heavier than standard bedroll - for me its a WIN. 

I also find the down goodies to be superior than the original options (stalker): the insulation is twice as warm/windproof than the earwrap, and also a lot more sturdy (earwraps I kept losing after each bear attack..., and they are not renewable either). The +3 degrees warmth from the bedroll for the extra 0,1 kg is to me also an absolute must.  I'm very happy with both these additions. could also imagine boosting the down vest a bit, which at the moment is not very attractive to me...

I do agree with the OP though about a 3rd accessory option might be due, with the many items recently added to the game, that all go to the same spot. It makes sense that we have to prioritize, of course, but I think it became quite unbalanced now.
moose bag and gun holster you'd probably want to wear constantly. for the rest it makes sense to wear the one according to the situation (ear warmer/insulation, crampons, ballistic vest, gas mask?), but that already requires 3 slots...
Even if I'd need to solve something, or reach a level for it to unlock- it'd make sense i think.

Edited November 24, 2023 by AdamvR