Fishing and Mending Revamped

[Mig_zvm]

I am sorry for those of you who enjoy the fishing and mending aspects of The Long Dark as it currently stands, but I personally have never been totally satisfied with either(and maybe that is the point, idk).

Is it too much to have a fishing mechanic where you lower and raise the line into the water and wait for a bite in real time?

In this sense you could do other things while you wait and risk the chance that your line breaks because you were too focused on something else.

This leads me to my other suggestion.  Allow for repairs to happen in stages similar to the crafting of meterials and the maintaining of knives.  

Allow us to choose how long we want to work on the clothing and have the additional percentage added to reflect the the amount of time spent plus the skill level bonus.

Failing and loosing cloth makes no sense to me.  Where does it go?  Did we rip it to shreds in a fit of rage cause we pricked our finger too many times?

 

[odizzido]

Personally when I try sewing something I will eat the cloth if it doesn't come out right. Doesn't everyone?

[Mroz4k]

Well, for starters, a lot of the clothing we are repairing is clearly synthetic. But that is just game mechanics, cant look too much into it from the reality perspective. I always thought the stuffed clothing pieces with clearly "down" material should also require cattail heads to be repaired, as the stuff inside is not only a good tinder for firemaking, but also a very good substitute for the down material. But I always figured "failed" repair was just us, sewing it on top of the tear, but the tear in the process got  bigger because we are clumsy, or the cloth just wasnt tightly sewn in and the hole wasnt sealed... and so on. Trying to sew some tears on clothing does get pretty frustrating at times. No matter what you do, it wont stay on.

I think the fishing is another of the outdated mechanics to how the game used to work in the past. But, I doubt we will ever see animations for it, it kinda works decently enough and the resources for development are limited. But, what I think might work here, and its very common survival task, is to create fish snares. Basically break a hole through ice, pop the fish snare in, secure it on top, come back next morning to pull out the catches. It uses several fishing hooks so the snare can catch several fish. Its a smart way to fish in areas with highly cold temperatures because after you set it up, you dont get to work for it and spend several more hours just trying to get a catch. That said - I think a lot of people who like fishing in the game would be happy if the current system was reworked to something less RNG, more player-skill based. So they feel like they have a participation in getting the catches.

[one_shurbbery]

I really like the idea of fish snares. Here's an example of a ice fishing snare from a old survival manual I have:   

I was also thinking about the possibility of crafting gill nets or small fish traps to be used in coastal regions like BI, DP, and CH.  Would yield more fish, the only problem is braving the weak ice to retrieve it. 

 

Edited March 3, 2021 by one_shurbbery

[Old Hermit]

34 minutes ago, Mroz4k said:

But, what I think might work here, and its very common survival task, is to create fish snares. Basically break a hole through ice, pop the fish snare in, secure it on top, come back next morning to pull out the catches. It uses several fishing hooks so the snare can catch several fish. Its a smart way to fish in areas with highly cold temperatures because after you set it up, you dont get to work for it and spend several more hours just trying to get a catch. That said - I think a lot of people who like fishing in the game would be happy if the current system was reworked to something less RNG, more player-skill based. So they feel like they have a participation in getting the catches.

That, or implementing a system that allows perform "minor" tasks while wait for hours fishing (feeding the fire, reading, etc). It seems absurd that the survivor gets his/her attention 100% in a fish line and forgets to warm up ^^

[odizzido]

I personally like the idea of passive fishing. The problem with active fishing, to me, is that it is either worth it and you can just fish a ton to get heaps of food/oil, or fishing isn't worth it in which case it's pointless.

With passive fishing like the suggestions above it could be worth it but also not give too much. It seems like a good balance to me.

[Mroz4k]

The feeling I get from the fishing as is now is how the system for cooking worked in the past. You would go into a fire, switch over to cooking, and select a piece of meat at which point you kept waiting till the one piece of meat was cooked and the game retracted appropriate amount of time. So when we were cooking, we were cooking one piece of meat for a certian amount of time without using that time for something else. 

Something that I think might work is a system like this: You break through the ice, and put the fishing line in, with a stick. The hole will stay open and the survivor can go perform other tasks. The hole itself can be clicked on again, brinding up the HUD which gives the player the option to spend time, waiting for a catch. When the catch is hooked, the time would be interrupted. Also, the player can do other things around, while the fishing line is set, and if a catch is hooked, there would be the auditory splash you get when fish is caught, and it keeps repeating in some intervals. If the player doesnt pick up the fish in some time (depending on the skill), the fish would get away and tear off the hook with it. 

I think something similar might be done with the mending system, but not sure yet how. If anyone got any ideas, would be nice to see.

[Mroz4k]

18 hours ago, one_shurbbery said:

I really like the idea of fish snares. Here's an example of a ice fishing snare from a old survival manual I have:   

I was also thinking about the possibility of crafting gill nets or small fish traps to be used in coastal regions like BI, DP, and CH.  Would yield more fish, the only problem is braving the weak ice to retrieve it. 

 

The flag is a nice touch, never thought of that one. It would serve to put a long line, and tie several hooks on the the line in some intervals - the more hooks, the more chances to catch another fish.

Speculating now, but I think the nets would not work. As you can see from the pictures, nets utilize running water with a current, or specific areas where the fish would traffic, like the funnels. You cant get a funnel in the middle of a lake. The way net catching works on a sea is that you have a boat, dragging the net, and catching the fish with the wide area of a net and the speed of the boat. At least I think thats the theory - I am no fisherman. 

Couple of forum members have experience with ice fishing - if they could provide some ideas from experience, it would help a lot.

Edited March 4, 2021 by Mroz4k

[Nordique]

24 minutes ago, Mroz4k said:

The flag is a nice touch, never thought of that one. It would serve to put a long line, and tie several hooks on the the line in some intervals - the more hooks, the more chances to catch another fish.

Couple of forum members have experience with ice fishing - if they could provide some ideas from experience, it would help a lot.

Now this is an interesting topic, trapping and baiting for fish and game! If not for base TLD, perhaps for a mod afterwards?

I would love it if in-game a skill book for such were available. Trapping books have been popular for close to 200 years so it is plausible a rustic tome could be found in TLD's setting. As a side note, it would make sense while being simplistic to be able to craft yarn out of cloth -- would eat nicely into the relatively meager cloth supplies in exchange for passive hunting. Of course, in what I expect to be the TLD style, the more elaborate fishing contraptions would probably be out of the question.

Not an avid fisher anymore, but I've dabbled in a number of winter fishing methods over the years. Here's my 10¢

Various signaling methods are the way to go when it is too cold to just sit outside waiting. In the dead of the winter sound carries far, so e.g. a small bell on a string can signal a catch from relatively far away by sound alone. I'm now already anticipating what kind of a faint jingle the talented Hinterland sound team could make ring at the Mountaineer's pond ... perhaps the flag method could be used overnight just like the current rabbit traps?

Gigging (spear fishing) with a small spear in winter is an ancient and still a viable traditional method. I've built my own gig back in the day, it could be an option for the game. Traditionally made out of wood, but of course a metal one is sturdier and plausibly within the forging skills of the character ... but imo an easily broken wooden gig requiring repairs might make sense balance-wise. Some fish you lure in with a largish torch (akin to a bonfire on a stick), should fit the TLD optics well?

But when the spring sun is warming your bones and you're toasting in a phat-ass cover-all with a huge hood on, ice fishing sure is a pleasure. Just imagine what a treasure such a full-body Expedition Jacket of a clothing item would be from 100 days onwards in TLD! There must be e.g. Great Lakes or maybe even authentic Russian ice fishers here to share their knowledge? Well, I do know the real ice-fishing secret is what is affectionately called the Sweater Internal, comes bottled...

[Nordique]

1 hour ago, Mroz4k said:

Speculating now, but I think the nets would not work. As you can see from the pictures, nets utilize running water with a current, or specific areas where the fish would traffic, like the funnels. You cant get a funnel in the middle of a lake. The way net catching works on a sea is that you have a boat, dragging the net, and catching the fish with the wide area of a net and the speed of the boat. At least I think thats the theory - I am no fisherman.

Actually nets would work, very possibly even too well for balance in the coastal waters and especially in a lake with an inflow (TWM). Now it just so happens there is a veritably Canadian method of setting gill nets under the ice: Prairie Ice Jig. Could be interesting if e.g. Fishing 5 would grant the ability to fairly laboriously set up an ice net. This could e.g. involve crafting the net for hours on end from guts and cloth, multiple ice holes, usable maybe only in a special zone with just the right type of water body etc.

[Mig_zvm]

On 3/3/2021 at 11:24 AM, Mroz4k said:

Well, for starters, a lot of the clothing we are repairing is clearly synthetic. But that is just game mechanics, cant look too much into it from the reality perspective. I always thought the stuffed clothing pieces with clearly "down" material should also require cattail heads to be repaired, as the stuff inside is not only a good tinder for firemaking, but also a very good substitute for the down material. But I always figured "failed" repair was just us, sewing it on top of the tear, but the tear in the process got  bigger because we are clumsy, or the cloth just wasnt tightly sewn in and the hole wasnt sealed... and so on. Trying to sew some tears on clothing does get pretty frustrating at times. No matter what you do, it wont stay on.

Thank you for the perspective on the way the mending works.  The logic makes more sense to me now, why it works the way it does.

[ManicManiac]

In the past, I have been supportive of one addition to Fishing (that while I don't think is necessary, I do think it might be a nice touch).  I even posed the question to Raph.  I'll echo what was discussed here:

On 5/5/2019 at 1:58 AM, ManicManiac said:

Another possibility that comes to mind (and perhaps might be simpler to implement) might be the ability to craft an ice fishing rig... better known as a Tip-up.  Maybe requiring reclaimed wood, fishing tackle, cloth (or something like that).

I figure this way, ice fishing could also be a more passive activity like using the rabbit snare.  We could set up your rig and go off to do something else.  The flag pops up when a fish is caught, and just like the snare we can get one fish and reset the mechanism.  Just like the snare, there could be a chance for the fish to "throw the hook and get away" leaving the tip-up to need to be reset while yielding nothing.

Here is the question I submitted for the Milton Mailbag Question Thread:

Quote

I know you mentioned expanding on the fishing mechanics is still on the list of possibilities for future updates...  What are your thoughts on the player being able to find/craft something like an ice fishing Tip-Up?

(Context) the idea that perhaps ice fishing in addition to the present mechanic, could maybe also be a passive activity like using the rabbit snare (the difference being the tip-up only yielding one fish where as sitting at the hole to fish already has a chance to yield more in a given time frame).  That a player might set the tip-up, freeing up the player to go do something else until the flag pops up when a fish is caught.  Similar to the snare if it's neglected for too long the fish would "get away" and need to be reset.  (I know you had a question about fishing last week, but since this one was more specific I hoped it would be worth posting)"

And here was Raph's Response:

Quote

I saw something like this used in the movie, ARCTIC, and I definitely thought it could be a useful part of a Fishing overhaul. It's on my list (but, making no promises!).

 

 

So again, while I don't think it's a necessary change... I do think it could be a neat addition if Ice Fishing could be an active or passive activity (just like hunting rabbits is currently).

As for Mending... I think the current mechanics work fine, and I don't really see a need for it to be overhauled at this point.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 4, 2021 by ManicManiac