TLD would be amazing if...

[WalleyeGuy83]

It's so damn close to the perfect survival game and it's driving me bonkers!

For me it's just not hard enough even on stalker, what about you guys?

 

[Docterrok]

I don't agree. I think it's not a matter of difficulty. But keeping me occupied with things to do. That's why I suggested the option to be able to decorate our homes.

[continuity]

9 hours ago, Docterrok said:

I don't agree. I think it's not a matter of difficulty. But keeping me occupied with things to do. That's why I suggested the option to be able to decorate our homes.

Difficulty would provide you with things to do... like struggling to survive  which is the raison d'etre of survival games.

[ShawnB]

Definately not hard enough. While this game is amazing as is it should be more about survival...desperate survival (on harder difficulties) and not about keeping yourself occupied. IMO.

[Wastelander]

Personally, I think the game doesn't need more difficulte per se. I agree that some things should be tweaked (water consumption, for example), but I'm strongly against any kind of 'artificial difficulty'.

There are ways to introduce additional difficulty without it feeling artificial though - imagine a bear breaking into your base because you stored so much food there and taking all your stuff. Imagine NPCs competing with you over loot. Imagine a tougher, more realistic first-aid system.

[iSUGGESTthings]

If they maintain their original vision, art style, and uniqueness as they continue to build this game. If they strive to make the game playable for as broad a range of system specs as they can. If they continue to be active in their community and listen to player feedback, but not so much that they stray from their original vision.

[Patrick Carlson]

17 minutes ago, iSUGGESTthings said:

If they maintain their original vision, art style, and uniqueness as they continue to build this game. If they strive to make the game playable for as broad a range of system specs as they can. If they continue to be active in their community and listen to player feedback, but not so much that they stray from their original vision.

This is always our goal!

And to respond to a few of the other comments in this thread, we're certainly not done yet.  We just hope that folks continue to support us on this journey. Lots more to come. 

 

[Wastelander]

Just now, Patrick Carlson said:

This is always our goal!

 

This is actually nice to hear (or rather, read, actually.) - we unruly crowd members often get pretty lively in the Wish List, but hey, it's all in good faith

I've said it before and I'll say it again - Hinterland is one of the few companies that has yet to disappoint me. The game has changed a lot in the past, and, with very few exceptions, for the better in my opinion. A lot of people also tend to forget that the game is still in Alpha stage and thus expect a full release, which The Long Dark just isn't yet. But you guys keep making good content with effectively every update. Keep up the good work!

[Doc Gonzo]

1 hour ago, Patrick Carlson said:

This is always our goal!

And to respond to a few of the other comments in this thread, we're certainly not done yet.  We just hope that folks continue to support us on this journey. Lots more to come. 

 

There's no doubt, you folks are rocking it,

[Doc Gonzo]

18 hours ago, WalleyeGuy83 said:

It's so damn close to the perfect survival game and it's driving me bonkers!

For me it's just not hard enough even on stalker, what about you guys?

 

To be honest, before the last update voyager was harder. Hear me out on this. Once you were established in either voyager or stalker mode it was a bit harder imho on voyager.  With all the wolves in stalker and with a good-players ability to exploit the wolf behavior meat was really scarcer on voyager (barely so but still).  

Im not sure how it is now though with the addition of parasites.

[continuity]

I'd really like it if they didn't scale wolf numbers with difficulty, it just gets silly in stalker.  You should be able to manage difficulty just by reducing items and making weather harsher, maybe reduce deer/rabbit/fish numbers too.

[WalleyeGuy83]

On the topic of food, being able to cook ruined meat into 50% durability is an issue. Even if your meat goes bad you can always restore it (50% seems to rarely give food poisoning)

 

Also storing meat outside to keep it fresh. I understand storing it in a car trunk or something but I can lay juicy steaks and fish on the ground without worrying about wolves stealing it. Maybe a random chance meat will go missing?

[Nasdaq401]

I absolutely agree! Stalker is way too easy atm.  Looking forward to a harder difficulty

[Mikeyd0577]

10 hours ago, Wastelander said:

This is actually nice to hear (or rather, read, actually.) - we unruly crowd members often get pretty lively in the Wish List, but hey, it's all in good faith

I've said it before and I'll say it again - Hinterland is one of the few companies that has yet to disappoint me. The game has changed a lot in the past, and, with very few exceptions, for the better in my opinion. A lot of people also tend to forget that the game is still in Alpha stage and thus expect a full release, which The Long Dark just isn't yet. But you guys keep making good content with effectively every update. Keep up the good work!

I don't if you and I have agreed on very much (really can't remember), but on this one I couldn't agree with you more !!!

 

 

[TROY]

I have to say, I disagree with making it harder. For one thing, its already so unrealistic on stalker setting that it's laughable.  I very much agree with Docterrok in his assessment that there simply needs to be more things to do.  I don't mind the unrealistic aspects so much, as its clearly done just to make the game more challenging, and it IS a game after all, not reality. My biggest problem with the realism factor, is people are constantly throwing that card out in these forums about suggestions for adding things to the game. If you want true realism, this game would be just pretty artwork and a good soundtrack. Survival, honestly, is not difficult, even in cold weather. Its all about using your head, remaining calm, and knowing which needs must be prioritized. -20 degrees celsius, really isnt THAT cold folks. I work outdoors all day in all kinds of foul weather in the winter time, in temperatures that often reach -25 and lower at times, and I rarely wear anything heavier than a couple long sleeve t-shirts and a hooded sweatshirt with a "toque" on my noggin.  Everybody with half a brain knows it takes WEEKS, minimum for a human to starve to death. We ALL know you dont start dying from exhaustion if you skip one nights sleep or if you run a couple hundred meters twice after getting up. Anyone familiar with firearms and or hunting knows a .303 rifle would put down a black bear with one shot, no problem. ( so long as you didnt shoot it in the arse) Its a pretty powerful rifle.  When is the last time you had to eat almost 3 kg (EIGHT AND A HALF POUNDS) of meat to be full?  AND, fyi,  venison contains over 2000 calories per kg;  so does Salmon, nearly 2400 in Rabbit and Bear meat.   Not to mention, even a small deer would have closer to 40 kg of meat on his bones.  The problem lies in the fact that the real things that do make survival difficult in a situation like this cannot be accounted for in a video game, and I think Hinterland has done a top shelf job of balancing so far, with the notable exception of how quickly the characters become exhausted, and how dramatic an effect it has.  Making it harder by simply altering the current tuning would, in my opinion, be making it so fictitious that your plane may as well have crashed on Hoth. The believable scenario aspect of this game is one of its most endearing qualities, and any further stretching of the tuning would erase it.

[ShawnB]

I'm not too worried about realism but i really think things get too easy too fast; however I would be super disappointed if HL just tweaked current mechanics to fix this. 

Difficulty should come in the form of unpredicable events like dynamic animal behaviour, NPC interactions, accidents, and multi-day storm events. 

[TROY]

On 7/14/2016 at 2:53 PM, Wastelander said:

Personally, I think the game doesn't need more difficulte per se. I agree that some things should be tweaked (water consumption, for example), but I'm strongly against any kind of 'artificial difficulty'.

There are ways to introduce additional difficulty without it feeling artificial though - imagine a bear breaking into your base because you stored so much food there and taking all your stuff. Imagine NPCs competing with you over loot. Imagine a tougher, more realistic first-aid system.

@Wastelander This is good stuff. I had wanted to touch on this in my first reply, but it got to long winded. The first aid and injury/sickness mechanic is really the best place to start for increasing difficulty.  How about adding Frostbite for one thing, and decreasing the chance of success of certain things and increasing the time it takes to perform actions based upon the characters current condition ( and level of fatigue, but that mechanic needs help first).  Frostbitten fingers make shooting a bow impossible;  gutting, skinning and butchering a deer would be painful to the point of masochism. Frostbitten toes make wearing boots and walking painful and difficult, forget about scaling a cliff or running with a full pack.  Being able to treat Food Poisoning with anti biotics?  uhhh... no. It should simply be a time heal thing, requiring lots of extra rest, and lots of extra hydration, which in turn puts you at risk of cabin fever, so the player really needs to think about whether they are hungry enough or not to eat that Mouldy meat.  A sprained wrist? Yeah, pain pills allow you to hold and fire the rifle, but not a bow. And your accuracy should be reduced for several days, and it should take twice as long to chop wood, etc.   Cabin Fever? The player should have to constantly check to make sure the character isnt throwing away tools or food, or trying to drill a hole in the ice with his toenails. Hypothermia? You better be watching to make sure she isnt dropping her clothing and washing her hair with snow. No kidding peeps, Folks do strange things under the influence of these afflictions. Its HARD,  REALLY REALLY REALLY HARD to start a fire with a match when your hands are shaking uncontrollably because you are so cold: you had better have planned ahead and saved a can of lighter fluid for this. Being really hungry or thirsty makes everything you do require more time and effort, and tires you out quicker.  Sprained Ankles should require treatment before you can do anything but crawl on your hands and knees, after treatment, movement rate should still be dramatically reduced for AT LEAST 24 hours, provided 10 of those hours are spent resting.  I am not in favor of increasing random chances to suffer afflictions though. I'm already ticked about the random sprains in TWM for no reason at all, while walking with a half empty pack on flat ground.     

     I would also be in favor of making certain things, like tracking an animal you've wounded, or time required for getting firewood, (which currently is ridiculous btw: even a child can break a cedar limb into 3 pieces in 15 minutes with the BLUNT side of a hatchet)  skill based as a means of increasing difficulty.

[TROY]

23 hours ago, WalleyeGuy83 said:

On the topic of food, being able to cook ruined meat into 50% durability is an issue. Even if your meat goes bad you can always restore it (50% seems to rarely give food poisoning)

 

Also storing meat outside to keep it fresh. I understand storing it in a car trunk or something but I can lay juicy steaks and fish on the ground without worrying about wolves stealing it. Maybe a random chance meat will go missing?

 @WalleyeGuy83  If you haven't already had a wolf steal something you left laying outside, its because you left it where wolves don't hang out, or don't want to come near, and that's both smart, and realistic. I've had a single wolf eat  50 kg of fish I left on the ice.  (I do this to "lure" them in for close up bow shots.)    I'd like to see a crafted "bear bag" item added to the game that a player needs to use to store food in outside to take advantage of the prolonged duration.  It would both require time/resources and sort of limit  how much food can be layed away. 

[Boston123]

Adding sweating and "keeping" dry would up the difficulty almost immediately.

In cold weather survival, keeping dry is almost, and easily more, important than keeping warm. Keeping warm is relatively easy, keeping dry is not. In fact, the warmer you become, the less dry you will be. Cold weather survival is a balancing act between working and preventing sweat from building up.

[TROY]

3 hours ago, Boston123 said:

Adding sweating and "keeping" dry would up the difficulty almost immediately.

In cold weather survival, keeping dry is almost, and easily more, important than keeping warm. Keeping warm is relatively easy, keeping dry is not. In fact, the warmer you become, the less dry you will be. Cold weather survival is a balancing act between working and preventing sweat from building up.

Sir, you are absolutely correct. Dry = Warm, especially in cold weather. However, the game currently has no mechanic or physics for wetness. Its a shame. Or over heated for that matter. you can stand beside that forge at 200 degrees all day long and be perfectly comfortable. perhaps using a bit more water, I'm not sure, I havent tracked this. In real life, if you went from a couple hours at that forge, sweating your berries off, and stepped out into a -35 blizzard, you'd die instantly of shock! Well, not really, but damn close to it. 

[Patrick Carlson]

2 minutes ago, TROY said:

Sir, you are absolutely correct. Dry = Warm, especially in cold weather. However, the game currently has no mechanic or physics for wetness. Its a shame. Or over heated for that matter. you can stand beside that forge at 200 degrees all day long and be perfectly comfortable. perhaps using a bit more water, I'm not sure, I havent tracked this. In real life, if you went from a couple hours at that forge, sweating your berries off, and stepped out into a -35 blizzard, you'd die instantly of shock! Well, not really, but damn close to it. 

It currently only comes into play when you fall through weak ice, but The Long Dark does have a system for dealing with wet/frozen clothes. As always, we're not going for a 1:1 representation of reality here, but rather a compelling gameplay experience. If wet clothes also came into play after extreme efforts (climbing/running), it would certainly add a new layer to things. I don't know of any plans to implement this, but it is interesting to speculate. 

[miah999]

I can defiantly see wet, cold, and heat (i.e. overheating) coming into the game more in the next year. Especially after the spring and multi-season sandboxes are here.

[TROY]

1 hour ago, Patrick Carlson said:

It currently only comes into play when you fall through weak ice, but The Long Dark does have a system for dealing with wet/frozen clothes. As always, we're not going for a 1:1 representation of reality here, but rather a compelling gameplay experience. If wet clothes also came into play after extreme efforts (climbing/running), it would certainly add a new layer to things. I don't know of any plans to implement this, but it is interesting to speculate. 

Wait, WHAT!?  You can fall through weak ice, and live to worry about being wet?  The one and only time i decided to test this, I died instantly. Am I missing out on something here? I want to get wet!  Polar bear dip anyone!?

 

*****EDIT**** YABBA DABBA DOOOOOO!!!   I of course, immediately went and tested this! VERY NICE!!!  @Patrick Carlson, please please please add this mechanic to blizzards, at the very least. Since the game does not have overheating or sweating at this time, that still cant be accounted for, sadly.  It looked very good to me. The wetness affected the wool clothing less than the other stuff, and it had to thaw before drying. VERY VERY well done. A blizzard should WET the characters outer clothing after 1.5 to 2 hours, and inner clothing within an additional hour, or for simplification, everything within 2-3 hours. Its to bad that going swimming didnt also wet other gear, as it should, and maybe alot of folks would disagree with me on this point, but I feel as though falling through ice would soak nearly everything that is susceptible to such. Matches should have been wet, tinder: wet, sleeping bag, same as clothes, wet and frozen, any newspapers or books would need to be dried out. I would further add to this that, if a player is smart enough to have placed matches and tinder in his water proof first aid kit ( but that would require some other changes that Ive suggested)   please pass along a huge congrats to whoever designed and implemented this system, it is perfect for the game, and needs to be expanded.

[WalleyeGuy83]

Hearing about untapped systems that we didn't know about is awesome!

I've been thinking a lot about difficulty as I play on stalker and what Troy said earlier in the thread regarding more to do vs. artificial difficulty. I was pretty damn sure that I agreed and then reading about sweating set it in for me.

We really do need more to do, and it doesn't need to be picture perfect realism either as long as it's compelling.

and here's the key word...

THREATS!

Bears getting sniffy around a well stocked base, sweating due to temperature vs layers of clothing, both great ideas! Threats like these, imminent danger, death around the corner if we don't keep our ducks in a row...

[Dirmagnos]

I dont really see how blizzard is supposed to wet clothes, even after 2 hours. For snow to thaw it needs plus degrees as far as im aware and clothes are generally designed to keep warmth in, and prevent it from escaping, at least to a degree that it would start melting snow to a notable degree. And that little snow that do get in usually melts and evaporates be4 it manages to do some real damage.