Story mode, not too linear

[Axe]

I'd very much like to see a story mode which allows the player to choose different options at handling different scenario's. For example having non violent options for NPC interactions. This would give the player some degree of control over how they progress which is more aligned to their personal beliefs. I know story mode in itself means that a specific story line is being told/followed, but I would like to see different options for progressing like being able to choose the harder moral path (sharing limited resources) than the easier immoral one (steal resources). Its likely the devs may already have something like this in place. I'm just putting it out there in case they don't 

I'd hate to see this game follow the same path that the game Rust took. What started as a survival game turned into a FPS > survival game. I think Rust has covered this market, so lets not allow TLD to fall into the same trap.

[Dirmagnos]

In survival situation sharing or not may be the simplest of choices. Choosing to kill some1 or to walk away and potentially die, that is hard one.

And from what i know, story mode will already have this lame moral system, so your personal believes will mean little.

[elloco999]

10 minutes ago, Dirmagnos said:

And from what i know, story mode will already have this lame moral system, so your personal believes will mean little.

I think the moral system will not be as lame as you think and the choices you will have to make will mean something. That was basically one of the main selling points of TLD during the kickstarter. Hinterland has proven by now that they know how to make the mechanics in the game worthwhile.

[Vhalkyrie]

I think it's going to be great.  Since they are unfettered by the constraints of a commercial triple A producer, they can afford to do things that are creative and daring.  Looking forward to it.

[Raphael van Lierop]

2 hours ago, Dirmagnos said:

In survival situation sharing or not may be the simplest of choices. Choosing to kill some1 or to walk away and potentially die, that is hard one.

And from what i know, story mode will already have this lame moral system, so your personal believes will mean little.

Maybe something is being lost in translation here, but what do you feel you "know" about the "lame" morale system we haven't said anything about?

[cekivi]

10 minutes ago, Raphael van Lierop said:

Maybe something is being lost in translation here, but what do you feel you "know" about the "lame" morale system we haven't said anything about?

[Fuarian]

My best guess is it's gonna be like a mix of Telltale games and Assassin's Creed where you have side missions and crap. But too a degree.

[Dirmagnos]

13 hours ago, Raphael van Lierop said:

Maybe something is being lost in translation here, but what do you feel you "know" about the "lame" morale system we haven't said anything about?

Im preparing for the worse. Game is superb so far, and i hope that im wrong. But its better to be prepared. Plus, negativity tend to make quality developers to try harder to prove asses like me wrong(and there is no shortage of quality in this game). 8)

[Axe]

3 hours ago, Dirmagnos said:

Im preparing for the worse. Game is superb so far, and i hope that im wrong. But its better to be prepared. Plus, negativity tend to make quality developers to try harder to prove asses like me wrong(and there is no shortage of quality in this game). 8)

I think that's an unfair assessment Dirmagnos. Based on the continuous success the dev team has made on this project so far I believe we can continue to expect the same quality of work if not better moving ahead. This is based on the fact that the devs have actively demonstrated a process of continuous improvement on their product.

You're also basing your opinion on the false understanding that negative reinforcement produces increased positive behavior/results when in fact this in itself does not align to what the academic literature has taught us, science teaches us that positive reinforcement leads to increased positive results/behavior. Therefore your negativity does not serve the success of this project.

It is senseless to value your own opinion over what is known within academic literature. This isn't a personal attack, I feel that you've made an erroneous evaluation of the hard work the devs have done up to this point and believe that they deserve credit and not criticism.

[Raphael van Lierop]

9 hours ago, Dirmagnos said:

Im preparing for the worse. Game is superb so far, and i hope that im wrong. But its better to be prepared. Plus, negativity tend to make quality developers to try harder to prove asses like me wrong(and there is no shortage of quality in this game). 8)

This is entirely untrue. We are not at all motivated by negativity. Criticism of existing work, perhaps, as long as it's useful and on point. But negative pre-emptive speculation about features that aren't in the game yet is just irritating.

[hauteecolerider]

5 minutes ago, Raphael van Lierop said:

This is entirely untrue. We are not at all motivated by negativity. Criticism of existing work, perhaps, as long as it's useful and on point. But negative pre-emptive speculation about features that aren't in the game yet is just irritating.

Agreed. I'm seeing a lot of presumptions about what the different elements mean based on no hard definitions. 

For example, the Wellbeing feature that is on the potential list. What exactly is that? No one in the know has actually defined what that means, yet I am seeing a lot of criticism of that feature - both positive and negative, based on nothing but the criticizer's self-conceived notion of what it is. 

I for one, have no idea what that is going to be like. To me, Wellbeing can be anything. I'd prefer to wait and see its implementation before I say anything. 

One thing I've learned in my life: If I'm going to complain/criticize something, I'd better have a solution to suggest! In other words, if I don't like something, I'll say so, but I'll also try to add a potential compromise/solution that would make me happier. If it happens, great. If not, no big deal. At least if it triggers a discussion that leads to better understanding of why something is the way it is, I'd take that!

Unfounded negativity based on nothing but one's own preconceptions, right or wrong, is not going to go over well. Ever. If anything, it will lead to the criticizer being written off as one of those people rather than being considered as someone with valid input.

[June]

My first thoughts when I heard of a "morale" system was on a favorite game of mine called Amnesia: the dark descent. Whenever you did something in there that was unusual, frightening or somehow brought you to the edge, the screen was shaking, vision was moving and such. I can imagine a lot of things for the Long Dark here that could affect your stats or your vision. Just my 2 cents ;P

[Dirmagnos]

19 hours ago, Axe said:

I think that's an unfair assessment Dirmagnos. Based on the continuous success the dev team has made on this project so far I believe we can continue to expect the same quality of work if not better moving ahead. This is based on the fact that the devs have actively demonstrated a process of continuous improvement on their product.

You're also basing your opinion on the false understanding that negative reinforcement produces increased positive behavior/results when in fact this in itself does not align to what the academic literature has taught us, science teaches us that positive reinforcement leads to increased positive results/behavior. Therefore your negativity does not serve the success of this project.

It is senseless to value your own opinion over what is known within academic literature. This isn't a personal attack, I feel that you've made an erroneous evaluation of the hard work the devs have done up to this point and believe that they deserve credit and not criticism.

Ohh, but i do expect high quality of development. There has been no indications of opposite. Im just cautious regarding whole feature of morality. So far every condition in the game has been universal, like hunger or thirst; while morale is deeply personal view on the world, based on persons experience in life.

And really, "academic literature" ? Could you provide a source for that claim ? Because as far as i know both positive and negative reinforcements have their areas of implementation, without one being superior to another in every given case. Both of them are used on a regular basis in every aspect of life with fairly equal success rate. That kinda invalidates your claim.

@Raphael van Lierop Sorry boss, its a valid point, il reserve passing judgement till feature is out. Making negative assessments without any actual evidence for it do seem to be rather stupid.

@hauteecolerider Well, theres a lot of that going around. So im hardly the only perpetrator on that part.

[Axe]

Honestly I am sure you are quite capable of doing a search through google scholar yourself. But just in case you can't may I suggest the following books:
The power of positive reinforcement : a handbook of behavior modification / by Judith Elbert Favell
Bringing out the best in people: how to apply the astonishing power of positive reinforcement / by Aubrey C. Daniels, Ph.D

 

Here is an excerpt from 'Bringing out the best in people...'
"6.1. Positive or Negative Reinforcement: What Difference Does It Make?
There are only two ways to get organizational results. One is through positive reinforcement and the other is through negative reinforcement. If both get results, why should we care?
I believe everybody would agree that if both positive and negative reinforcement got exactly the same results, it would still be better to use positive reinforcement. Why? First of all, people like positive reinforcement better. It produces a less stressful workplace. For this reason alone, positive reinforcement should be preferred.
However, there is an even more compelling business reason. Positive reinforcement maximizes performance, while negative reinforcement gets a level of performance that is just enough to get by, just enough to escape or avoid some unpleasant consequence. For example, a team brings a tough project in on time but everyone on the team knows they could have done the job in a shorter period of time.
Because both kinds of reinforcement get improvement, it is important for management to know whether the improvement has been accomplished through positive or negative reinforcement. You see, if you are getting results with negative reinforcement, you are missing the substantially greater results you could be getting if positive reinforcement was the consequence at work."

 

It is at this point that i'd like to point out that in my post which you yourself quoted I referred to 'increased positive behavior...'. You may have failed to realize this, but my choice of words were deliberate. While negative reinforcement may get you results, positive reinforcement will get you increased results.
But look this is a discussion which really can't be examined on this thread/forum, its way off topic, you are welcome to discuss this further with me by personal message if you like.

Anyway let's try and stay on topic going forward... non linear story modes! multiple paths leading to multiple endings! family friendly ways of completing the game without having to turn it into a TLD interpretation of Friday the 13th, and more story based stuff like that!

[nicko]

how about who gives a fark about your uni qualifications?  we are more interested in hearing about the HT story lines!

[Patrick Carlson]

Hello everyone, please keep your posts friendly and on-topic. Personal comments are unnecessary and unwelcome. Thank you!