Whetstones should last much much longer

[brokentwig]

Now I know there's isn't native whetstones in Canada, but a medium whetstone should last for about 1000 sharpenings, not 20.  You could always reduce the number of them that spawn similar to the magnifying lens, but they should last pretty much the entire run.

[stapeliad]

Yeah I mentioned this on here once years ago, the response was basically, no, and something about game difficulty.
A whetstone lasts basically forever. This frustrates me too.

[odizzido]

There are a lot of things in this game that are fricky. If you're looking for more of a true survival experience then the in early access Project Zomboid is better.

[UTC-10]

Keep in mind that in game development the devs probably considered how long tools and such would last.  With the intent of a story-driven game, it would not be too hard to imagine them thinking that relatively fragile (quickly used up) tools would push a player to move forward through the story.  Survival mode was an unexpected outcome to the game and I suppose one could say that story mode and survival mode have some issues with how something would or could work in one environment and how it would or could work in a different environment.  

I would not mind improvements to the performance of whet stones (i.e. last longer as is or do more within the parameters of current use) or mitigation of the condition loss for some tool usages (i.e. hatchets and knives have a range of condition loss depending on how they were being used).  

Something can be improved given environments it would be used in but the devs likely think "it is not broke so do not try to fix it and maybe cause it to break".  

[hozz1235]

49 minutes ago, UTC-10 said:

Keep in mind that in game development the devs probably considered how long tools and such would last.  With the intent of a story-driven game, it would not be too hard to imagine them thinking that relatively fragile (quickly used up) tools would push a player to move forward through the story.  Survival mode was an unexpected outcome to the game and I suppose one could say that story mode and survival mode have some issues with how something would or could work in one environment and how it would or could work in a different environment.  

I would not mind improvements to the performance of whet stones (i.e. last longer as is or do more within the parameters of current use) or mitigation of the condition loss for some tool usages (i.e. hatchets and knives have a range of condition loss depending on how they were being used).  

Something can be improved given environments it would be used in but the devs likely think "it is not broke so do not try to fix it and maybe cause it to break".  

Reality vs HL's view of gameplay mechanics.

[XBuilder]

I agree. A whetstone should last decades, not one day... This mechanic is infuriating lol. The only result for me would be that all of my weapons are fully sharpened all the time and I would be way more likely to use the axe to chop up stuff... As it is I've never had a run long enough to worry about tools fully breaking because I do everything I can to not use them. The only time an axe or knife gets used is either in an emergency or if I'm chopping down a sapling to make a bow. Maybe the number of uses of whetstone has should pair to difficulty? That way they get the best of both worlds?

Edited April 2 by XBuilder

[BugReportEnthusiast]

On 2/24/2024 at 11:42 PM, brokentwig said:

Now I know there's isn't native whetstones in Canada, but a medium whetstone should last for about 1000 sharpenings, not 20.  You could always reduce the number of them that spawn similar to the magnifying lens, but they should last pretty much the entire run.

This is an objectively bad suggestion, because The Long Dark is a game, not a simulator.

Realistically, you are right. Good whetstones last for years, but in game this would make whetstones insanely strong, because you'd essentially have unlimited durability on all your hatchets and knives.

Right now one whetstone is equal to a knife/hatchet's worth of durability. This is already strong, since It doubles how long you can use each tool. And, you find many whetstones in any given survival run.

With a whetstone that lasts 1000 uses, you'd basically have infinite durability on all your tools. This is blatantly overpowered.
You need to actually consider the impact of your suggestions towards the game's systems as a whole.

This suggestion sounds  good, but when you actually think about it:

• It completely removes the need to find more tools after finding a whetstone, since they last pretty much forever
• Whetstones are way too common of a find for them to last such a massive amount of uses. One whetstone would give you 50 knives' worth of durability, and every game has like 15 of them throughout the game world
• You will never ever need to forge anything, even in runs lasting tens of thousands of days, thus making an already existing system obsolete
• You will never ever need to repair tools at milling machines, even in runs lasting tens of thousands of days, thus making this system obsolete.

Like, cmon now.

[Leeanda]

Milling machines aren't just for knives and hatchets..

Making whetstones stronger isn't a bad idea,ok maybe not one that lasts forever but it could be offset by making the knife or hatchet more susceptible to sudden breaks,or making the found ones rarer..

Why are mag lens infinite?  A good stomping or bear mauling should break the glass...   

 

Edited April 5 by Leeanda

[BugReportEnthusiast]

8 hours ago, Leeanda said:

Milling machines aren't just for knives and hatchets..

Making whetstones stronger isn't a bad idea,ok maybe not one that lasts forever but it could be offset by making the knife or hatchet more susceptible to sudden breaks,or making the found ones rarer..

Why are mag lens infinite?  A good stomping or bear mauling should break the glass...   

 

Mag lens are infinite cuz fire is a requirement for you to survive in this game, if they werent then you'd just die after eventually running out of matches

Bladed tools aren't the same, since you can craft them at forges to replace old broken ones. And the materials to craft them are renewable through beachcombing

[Leeanda]

8 hours ago, BugReportEnthusiast said:

Mag lens are infinite cuz fire is a requirement for you to survive in this game, if they werent then you'd just die after eventually running out of matches

Bladed tools aren't the same, since you can craft them at forges to replace old broken ones. And the materials to craft them are renewable through beachcombing

In all my runs,whichever difficulty it's been I've never needed the nag kens..  I've used it twice in over four years and that's just for the novelty of it.. 

 

I know the tools are different,to some extent. .but the mag lens is only glass, but in reality you can just break a mirror ,or a pair of glasses to start a fire.

Even a wing mirror from the cars would work..     

 

Edited April 6 by Leeanda

[BugReportEnthusiast]

4 minutes ago, Leeanda said:

In all my runs,whichever difficulty it's been I've never needed the nag kens..  I've used it twice in over four years and that's just for the novelty of it.. 

 

I know the tools are different,to some extent. .but the mag kens is only glass, but in reality you can just break a mirror ,or a pair of glasses to start a fire.

Even a wing mirror from the cars would work..     

 

Well, that's just a difference in gameplay style.

On my current custom run (With the worst weather possible), I have only used 7 matches so far and i'm on day 129.

As you can see, it can be used to great effect and is an integral part of long runs

Edited April 6 by BugReportEnthusiast
forgot a word

[Leeanda]

1 hour ago, BugReportEnthusiast said:

Well, that's just a difference in gameplay style.

On my current custom run (With the worst weather possible), I have only used 7 matches so far and i'm on day 129.

As you can see, it can be used to great effect and is an integral part of long runs

It is,which everyone has.. we all have our own way to play,so there's no right or wrong in our wishes either.. granted the whetstone and mag lens are way more necessary on loper,but those players are in the minority,so why not make the gear  stronger..

In theory you can live forever on just a box of matches,just means keeping a fire and torches going forever..

Edited April 6 by Leeanda

[BugReportEnthusiast]

Just now, Leeanda said:

It is,which everyone has.. we all have our own way to play,so there's no right or wrong in our wishes either.. granted the whetstone and mag kens are way more necessary on loper,but those players are in the minority,so why not make the gear  stronger..

In theory you can live forever on just a box of matches,just means keeping a fire and torches going forever..

No, some ideas are just badly thought out. Refer back to my points as to why this one in particular is not well thought out and clashes with other aspects of the game.

If OP posted a concept for a rework of how whetstones are treated in the game, i would be much more supportive.
Instead, this post is just another "Let's do X thing because that's how it works IRL!", and everyone cheers for it without every stopping to think about how it would impact the game if implemented.

If people want their ideas to be implemented in game, you have to actually put effort into them.

[Leeanda]

3 hours ago, BugReportEnthusiast said:

No, some ideas are just badly thought out. Refer back to my points as to why this one in particular is not well thought out and clashes with other aspects of the game.

If OP posted a concept for a rework of how whetstones are treated in the game, i would be much more supportive.
Instead, this post is just another "Let's do X thing because that's how it works IRL!", and everyone cheers for it without every stopping to think about how it would impact the game if implemented.

If people want their ideas to be implemented in game, you have to actually put effort into them.

I find that a bit insulting to the op and everyone  who agree with him..    

I'm going to bow out of this thread ,I've said my piece ..

Edited April 6 by Leeanda

[Sebastian1992]

14 hours ago, Leeanda said:

Why are mag lens infinite?  A good stomping or bear mauling should break the glass...   

 

Oh no, don't stump my best friend the mag lens 😂! But serious this discussion is funny and I agree with you! Self in interloper so much matches since the dlc! I have fun with this game and thats it!

Edited April 6 by Sebastian1992

[Leeanda]

1 hour ago, Sebastian1992 said:

Oh no, don't stump my best friend the mag lens 😂! But serious this discussion is funny and I agree with you! Self in interloper so much matches since the dlc! I have fun with this game and thats it!

Lol...  I😁. That's the point though...no point playing if you're not enjoying it..  bring on the stompings 😅

[Sebastian1992]

Thank god it is only a game! In real life a moose can stomp all items in trash 😂

[Leeanda]

1 minute ago, Sebastian1992 said:

Thank god it is only a game! In real life a moose can stomp all items in trash 😂

Definitely not the friendliest animals 😁

[ManicManiac]

@BugReportEnthusiast

There's no need for you try and get personally inslulting...  

"No, some ideas are just badly thought out." ...well, the same could be said of your own arguments.  It's entirely subjective.  

Bad form when you try and asert your subjective opinion as some superior objective truth... because it's not.  Also, bad form to be dismissive and condescending towards other posters.

 

Edited April 6 by ManicManiac