AS INTERLOPER PLAYER I FEEL LEFT OUT!

[ManicManiac]

I've mentioned it before, but since that thread got locked and the discussion seems to have relocated here, and I think it bears repeating...

(Original)
I can understand the disappointment and all... but all things considered; I'd say that Interloper was never "feature complete" (in terms of game content).  I might remind folks that rifles, revolvers, hunting knives, hatchets, top tier "manufactured" clothing items (Expedition Parka and so on...), and the majority of TWM cargo containers were always absent from Interloper.

With the idea presumably being, that not only did we face harsher weather, more deadly predators, and fewer resources in the world... that the "best" clothing and equipment were nowhere to be found.

The handheld shortwave receiver... is in my estimation, purely a "Wayfinder" leading our survivor to yet more gear and supplies... which in my mind would be sort of counter to the point of Interloper.  So... I completely understand and support Hinterland's decision.   

On the other hand...
It's probably not so much the loot that the "lopers" are lamenting, but I'd venture to guess it's most likely the lore... That I'd perfectly understand and sympathize with.

Perhaps there might be consideration in the future for the team to find a way to incorporate the shortwave receiver (and associated activities) for Interloper?

• Perhaps all the bunkers and caches are bereft of food/gear/and supplies...
• Perhaps they had been already raided by the last remnants of the Forest Talkers... and only the bits of lore remain.

Might that possibly be a decent way to incorporate those elements without compromising the rigors of interloper?

 

Again, I can understand folks being upset about missing out on the additional lore...
but I also think there comes a point where it becomes a topic for folks to just grouse on about.
 

Edited April 11, 2023 by ManicManiac

[manolitode]

On 4/10/2023 at 1:58 PM, Serenity said:

What? Of course the maps are there. They were there before Signal Void was released. Weirdly Interloper even includes the radio transmitters themselves and the items to repair them. It's just that the radio receiver, quest and notes associated with it aren't included. So it's kind of a half-assed solution anyways.

Thanks, I appreciate you taking the time to explain this to me. I haven't played TLD for a while and the DLC part 1 and 2 just arrived to Playstation. Not getting to play Tales is a bummer but as long as the new maps and most items, trader etc are there that's what matters most to me.

[Kranium]

Just had to change the loot for the Tales.

[UpUpAway95]

21 hours ago, Serenity said:

Can we please get over this "Interloper = no loot" mindset? It's not true. There is plenty of loot in Interloper. It's just not all in one place. And at the point where you are doing the transmitters and hunt for the bunkers loot isn't an issue anymore. You won't do this is in the first days where you're actually struggling.

The bunkers shouldn't be full of tools and clothing. But adding a bit of food (especially the new corn or ham) wouldn't upset balance at all. Some pieces of firewood would also be thematic.

There is a comment on another thread in the Wish List section entitled "Interloper Overhaul" (updated), a few posts down by @Sir Major M.oos.E Sr. that I'm going to quote hear:

Quote

I appreciate the work you have put in your thoughts but would more content just for the sake of more content make the game really better? Honestly do we need all that stuff, do we want all that stuff? 
We are Interlopers in fact we don’t need anything, we don’t want anything. No firearms, no bunkers, no lanterns, no milling machines, no extra flare shells, no warm clothing, no beach combing, no scripted story lines and such.

When things are consumed and use up they are consumed and used up.

We don’t need reasons to go anywhere on Great Bear. We go where ever we like to, when we like to, because we like to and own the Island easily under harshest conditions. Toiletwater and dogfood is more than enough. Anything else is voyageuring (which is a pretty nice thing as well).

The game of Interloper is fine as it is. Actually all the recent fresh content made us become a little more like stalkers ☠️

... and here is my response (because I feel it is also relevant to this thread and your comment):
 

Quote

 

The title of the thread is what is problematic... because there is not way that the suggestions outlined would be implemented in a way that they would only affect Interloper.  Things like flare shell crafting and prybar repairs would obviously be implemented across all difficulty settings.  Things like Rifle knowledge would not affect standard interloper since that difficulty setting has no guns.  It might affect a custom interloper variant player depending on whether or not they decided to add guns into their run at their own discretion.

I do get rather irritated by Lopers who insist that every change to be considered in the game has to be framed in a manner as to how it affects interloper and solely interloper.

So, the better question to be asked would be:  Would this content make the OVERALL game better - more enjoyable to more players playing on a variety of difficulties?  Of course, now we have a number of Lopers claiming to feel "left out" because some content wasn't added to their specific difficulty... so perhaps Lopers need to get on the same page with each other and decide just what it is they want... more content or a stripped down, harsh experience.  I don't think they can have it both ways, TBH.

... and should that prevent content from being added to the overall game for the enjoyment of players who play on other difficulties (including other BRA=low variants in custom)?

 

So, I ask again... what to Lopers actually want?... more content or a stripped down, harsh experience?

Edited April 12, 2023 by UpUpAway95

[Kranium]

Interloper players aren't homogeneous, heck, that goes for pretty much every grouping of humans ever. We're all individuals... we're each a custom install.

[UpUpAway95]

34 minutes ago, Kranium said:

Interloper players aren't homogeneous, heck, that goes for pretty much every grouping of humans ever. We're all individuals... we're each a custom install.

So then, why not eliminate the standard difficulties altogether and just use the custom menu right off the start?  Templates could stay in place, maybe even just mix them up so they don't even appear to be in order of "difficulty" and maybe remove the names for them... and then even add a couple of new ones the change the experience even more (e.g. NOGOA, NOPE).  This would re-focus HL on providing flexibility within the custom menu of interest to a wider variety of players and cleaning it up a bit to make it function more "as advertised" and be more easily understood... instead of their having to referee arguments like this one over content not being equally accessible to all of the standard difficulties or some types of content diminishing the harshness of some difficulties.  People would perhaps then just be able to choose what content they wanted to "turn on" or "turn off" or how they themselves would want to scale the "difficulty" or "harshness" of their own experience.

Edited April 12, 2023 by UpUpAway95

[Kranium]

well duh. haha I am a Custom fanboy, for sure. I wasn't arguing against you there, other than one line. (what do lopers want) It was a question based on a false premise. (that every player on a given difficulty should have the exact same mindset)

 

That said, since Feats weren't available in Custom, and unless they make Custom options changeable from an existing Interloper (or whatever diff.) run, I'm now locked in to Interloper, essentially. (I don't enjoy new runs anymore, it's simply an exercise in memory & patience) But for new players/runs, your take would be ideal, and I'm all for it. Custom all the way.

Edited April 12, 2023 by Kranium

[Admin]

Thank you for your ongoing discussion. We plan to release more information on this in the very near future. 

[Glacia]

On 4/11/2023 at 1:09 PM, ManicManiac said:

I can understand the disappointment and all... but all things considered; I'd say that Interloper was never "feature complete" (in terms of game content).  I might remind folks that rifles, revolvers, hunting knives, hatchets, top tier "manufactured" clothing items (Expedition Parka and so on...), and the majority of TWM cargo containers were always absent from Interloper.

This isn't 100% true at all. Interloper was always feature complete in terms of mechanics and gameplay, except for the gunsmithing and related items/features for the firearms.

The firearms are not the feature, the feature it's hunting and self-defense. You can do that with just a bow, it's just a different way to do but enables the player to do all tasks related to hunt.

The same applies to improvised tools, inferior clothing and so on. Even with regions nerfed like the cargo containers and CH absent houses, you can still do the content just with changes.

This is completely different if we talk about the tale. The tale is not just a 'Loot finder' tool, involves repairing several new structures with new items, mandatory navigation during auroras, new mechanic with the handheld radio and of course, the lore.

Signal void it's a completely new concept, even if it uses most of the base game mechanics. Most players do not care about the new balaclava or special food, instead they want to experience the tale.

 

[Glacia]

6 hours ago, UpUpAway95 said:

So then, why not eliminate the standard difficulties altogether and just use the custom menu right off the start?

Because every survival game (With various difficulty modes) needs some easy and understandable options for new players. 

Imagine a new player buying the game and not even knowing what is a timberwolf, how the mechanics works and basically nothing. The game settings are perfect as they are, custom only needs a few tunning options like the feat progress and other suggested features.

[ManicManiac]

2 hours ago, Glacia said:

Interloper was always feature complete in terms of mechanics and gameplay, except for the gunsmithing and related items/features for the firearms.

...so then, not feature complete... as I said.  Besides, I was very explicitly talking in terms of game content... (also like I said). 🤭

Hmm... you don't consider the firearms a feature?  🤔  I suppose from the perspective of the "loper-leet" I guess it might seem that way... but I'd say that any aspect of a game that facilitates gameplay is indeed a "feature."

"fea·ture 
noun: a distinctive attribute or aspect of something."
I think it's fair to say that the rifle and revolver; along with gunsmithing and related items/features... would qualify. 🤭

In "gaming" terms... "Feature: Any aspect of a game that creates value and purpose."
I think it's fair to say they qualify on that point too.

2 hours ago, Glacia said:

Signal void it's a completely new concept, even if it uses most of the base game mechanics. Most players do not care about the new balaclava or special food, instead they want to experience the tale.

And this is where I already said I agreed and sympathized.  I think we all should be able to experience the lore Hinterland has woven into TFTFT.  I even offered to the Admins a possible solution to bring to the team.  Again, it's not as though I'm against the idea of the Tales being available to folks who fancy themselves "loper-only" players... that's not the case at all. 🤭

But I'm also not someone who limits myself to just one mode of play... so I can't say it's really "a hill worth dying on."  

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Anyway, I'm not interested in being drawn into an argument about it so I'm going to leave it at that.

I just don't have time these days for protracted discussions with folks on the forums who just seem diametrically opposed to me, or who may have already made up their mind that their view is the only "correct" one... and perhaps not so willing to consider other points of view.

(Now to be clear, I don't necessarily think that's the case with you... but I've been baited in far too often by those who just want a "fight" and I'm not here for that)

 

I've already said my peace, and I stand by it... if we disagree, that's okay.  

Edited April 13, 2023 by ManicManiac

[UpUpAway95]

10 hours ago, Kranium said:

well duh. haha I am a Custom fanboy, for sure. I wasn't arguing against you there, other than one line. (what do lopers want) It was a question based on a false premise. (that every player on a given difficulty should have the exact same mindset)

 

That said, since Feats weren't available in Custom, and unless they make Custom options changeable from an existing Interloper (or whatever diff.) run, I'm now locked in to Interloper, essentially. (I don't enjoy new runs anymore, it's simply an exercise in memory & patience) But for new players/runs, your take would be ideal, and I'm all for it. Custom all the way.

I knew that... some people say why, I say why not (didn't someone once say something like that?)  I also know that Lopers are not homogenous, but I was responding to someone else's "we are Lopers" comment.

If they eliminate the standard difficulty settings, then feats would have to be able to be earned in custom because the custom menu would be the starting point and would be the only way to change parameters/game difficulty.  The more I think about it, I think the way to go with this would be to leave in just one "normal/default" template... kind of like a number of character creators in RPG... show the default template when you open the custom menu and show what each slider means in the context of those settings... Then have the descriptions change slightly as the player moves the various sliders around.  If necessary to maintian performance overall, some sliders could also move relative to each other (much like the Oblivion character creator did).  For example, if there is an overall "animal cap" for balance, if one spawn chance slider is pushed to very high, the max for other related ones could become high or medium.

[UpUpAway95]

5 hours ago, Glacia said:

Because every survival game (With various difficulty modes) needs some easy and understandable options for new players. 

Imagine a new player buying the game and not even knowing what is a timberwolf, how the mechanics works and basically nothing. The game settings are perfect as they are, custom only needs a few tunning options like the feat progress and other suggested features.

Then the solution is to make the custom menu more easily understood in the context of a "normal" difficulty.  Anyone playing a harder difficulty should have familiarized themselves with the game enough to understand the custom menu (especially if it is presented to them at the start of the game rather than buried below four other standard difficulty settings.  If they were "perfect" as they are, why are so many Lopers inclined to suggest changes and complain every time HL changes something... e.g. (a few I've heard over the years): Birch bark teas added - Lopers response was too OP; T-wolves added - AI sucks... Blackrock added - Lopers have no reason to go there....... Why aren't they "homogenous" in there assessment that the settings are "perfect?"  Answer - Because they aren't.

If they leave the current templates in the default menu, then you could still select Loper, Stalker, Voyageur, or Pilgrim from within the Custom menu.  Those settings just become part of the custom menu rather than standing out alone on the main menu page.  Throwing it all into the custom menu streamlines the startup process.  If they add new templates that reflect some of the more commonly loved custom games - e.g. gunloper, NOGOA, NOPE, Deadman, etc., then that would save players having to look for the unique codes for those games as well... or perhaps they could give players a way to save their own templates, so they could "quick start" their favorite custom game without having to type in a code each time.

As I see it, it opens up a world of possibilities.

Edited April 13, 2023 by UpUpAway95

[Sir Major M.oos.E Sr.]

Interloper is the puristic way of playing TLD. I think that’s the reason why it was implemented back in 2016 or so. And I think that’s also the reason why a few of the overall TLD players enjoy playing it.

I don’t think too many would disagree here even though there are different opinions on details ☠️

 

Edited April 13, 2023 by Sir Major M.oos.E Sr.

[Kranium]

@Glaciabrings up good points & I fully agree with most of them.

[Glacia]

3 hours ago, UpUpAway95 said:

Then the solution is to make the custom menu more easily understood in the context of a "normal" difficulty.  Anyone playing a harder difficulty should have familiarized themselves with the game enough to understand the custom menu (especially if it is presented to them at the start of the game rather than buried below four other standard difficulty settings.  If they were "perfect" as they are, why are so many Lopers inclined to suggest changes and complain every time HL changes something... e.g. (a few I've heard over the years): Birch bark teas added - Lopers response was too OP; T-wolves added - AI sucks... Blackrock added - Lopers have no reason to go there....... Why aren't they "homogenous" in there assessment that the settings are "perfect?"  Answer - Because they aren't.

If they leave the current templates in the default menu, then you could still select Loper, Stalker, Voyageur, or Pilgrim from within the Custom menu.  Those settings just become part of the custom menu rather than standing out alone on the main menu page.  Throwing it all into the custom menu streamlines the startup process.  If they add new templates that reflect some of the more commonly loved custom games - e.g. gunloper, NOGOA, NOPE, Deadman, etc., then that would save players having to look for the unique codes for those games as well... or perhaps they could give players a way to save their own templates, so they could "quick start" their favorite custom game without having to type in a code each time.

As I see it, it opens up a world of possibilities.

This sounds much better! However i don't see this happens due to the work involved with a change like this.

[Mistral]

On 4/13/2023 at 1:24 PM, Glacia said:

This sounds much better! However i don't see this happens due to the work involved with a change like this.

Is it really that much work?

It makes too much sense.

[Glacia]

2 hours ago, Mistral said:

Is it really that much work?

It makes too much sense.

Yes and no.

Yes, because merging all game modes in a customizable sole mode it's just removing the current options, and revamping the custom menu. 

No, because a sole mode fully customizable must have "templates" for easy choosing a gameplay style. This ends in a system very similar to the current, you can still select "voyager" or other game settings, just expanding the customizable options.

The problem lies about confusing new or non-veterans players, they surely can't do a good customization because they lack the knowledge of the game.

The best option is expanding the current custom menu a bit (But not merging all game modes), like a much more expanded BRA settings and other stuff. 

[Semple Fi]

interloper

[UpUpAway95]

37 minutes ago, Glacia said:

Yes and no.

Yes, because merging all game modes in a customizable sole mode it's just removing the current options, and revamping the custom menu. 

No, because a sole mode fully customizable must have "templates" for easy choosing a gameplay style. This ends in a system very similar to the current, you can still select "voyager" or other game settings, just expanding the customizable options.

The problem lies about confusing new or non-veterans players, they surely can't do a good customization because they lack the knowledge of the game.

The best option is expanding the current custom menu a bit (But not merging all game modes), like a much more expanded BRA settings and other stuff. 

Agree... but I do think that with clear descriptions in a custom menu, many new players will still be able to use it.  RPG games have long had custom character creators and they've increasingly gotten more flexible (allowing for the adjustments of more features)... and even most new RPG players seem to be able to figure them out enough to get a character they'll play as... and if they don't want to take the time, they do fall back on using the default (or one of the defaults if multiple faces are presented).  The custom menu is a step beyond that, I agree... but I wouldn't underestimate their abilities to figure it out... and perhaps they wouldn't tend to get drawn into the "easy, hard, very hard, hardest" difficulty mindset (that is pretty much a carryover from shooters and such... games that only have standard difficulties with no options for customization given to the player ever).

[Kain]

On 4/4/2023 at 4:48 PM, Admin said:

We welcome constructive criticism. We simply ask that all posts remain respectful toward our team and other members of the community. 

Yooooo, thanks for hooking us up Hinterlands! Are you able to verify if these changes are available for custom mode? I had all the interloper presets and just put the restore condition at rest/not at rest to low:

[Kain]

Just made the trek back to FA, I found the short hand radio in a custom mode pretty much like interloper. Now to see if batteries exist, exciting.

[Admin]

On 4/20/2023 at 1:42 PM, Kain said:

Yooooo, thanks for hooking us up Hinterlands! Are you able to verify if these changes are available for custom mode? I had all the interloper presets and just put the restore condition at rest/not at rest to low:

Thank you for reaching out! Yes, the Tale is available on Custom mode. Please don't hesitate to reach out if you need anything further.