Leaving meat on the snow is cheap

[CrazyLazyCat]

I didn't know about this trick untill I saw a youtue guide. I confess It does make your game way easier, but I can't make peace with the concept for 2 main reasons

1st- It makes your base look like a bloody mess

2nd - it's not realistic and feels like cheating. Sure the meat would last longer, but also, it would attrack predators glad to eat it all.

My sugestion is make a constructible container that can be built outside and works like an "freezer", where you can keep the snow inside while keeping the content safe from predators. Now you can safely build in the mechanic that meat on the ground will attrack predators. If that's too complex to implement, just make any meat despawn if left outside after a specific time

[Leeanda]

I see your points. But it's not always possible to lug tons of meat around with you , especially with a bear or moose kill..  half the time you'd probably be forced to either leave it or harvest it and carry bags back and forth.  

Personally it doesn't matter but I'm on pilgrim so weather/predators aren't an issue. 

And welcome to the forum.😊

Edited February 7, 2023 by Leeanda

[CrazyLazyCat]

thank you

Also, even with no predators around, crows would eat the meat eventualy

[Leeanda]

I do wish the crows were interactive somehow...  Trying to get away with your food would be one way😊

[ManicManiac]

@CrazyLazyCat

I think it's fine being left to player choice.

If we want, we can make a rock cache to store meat... however along with that, ruined items in containers tend to get de-spawned.  That's not a discouragement, I just wanted to make sure there was fair warning.

For those who also don't like the idea of being able to cook/eat ruined meat, then using the rock cache for outdoor storage solves for both points. 🤭

Edited February 7, 2023 by ManicManiac

[CrazyLazyCat]

I assume the rock cages preserve meat as if it was on the snow then... even then, I don't see motive to store meat there, other than astetics. I'd rather just lay the meat on the snow.

besides despawning my ruined meat, which I can still grill to "revive", the rock cages are kinda "expensive" to build.

 

[ManicManiac]

No... just that it's a container that's outdoors.  What makes a difference in food item decay rates is just whether they are indoors or outdoors... and whether or not the optimal storage environment for that particular item is indoors or outdoors.

In the case of meat (cooked or raw) the minim decay rate is "outside."

[Leeanda]

I didn't realise that different food decays varies between indoor/outdoors..     thank you @ManicManiac. 

I do leave meat outside though and always have done...  

[ManicManiac]

@Leeanda

The foods that are best stored "indoors" are a relatively small minority.

Name	Decay inside (%/day)	Decay outside (%/day)	Best stored
GO! Energy drink	0.167	0.833	Inside
Orange soda	0.167	0.833	Inside
Pinnacle peaches	0.333	1.667	Inside
Pork and beans	0.133	0.667	Inside
Stacy's grape soda	0.167	0.833	Inside
Summit soda	0.167	0.833	Inside
Tin of sardines	0.067	0.333	Inside

Then of course there's the short list where it doesn't matter... 

Name	Decay inside (%/day)	Decay outside (%/day)	Best stored
Birch bark tea	0.000	0.000	Any
Cattail stalk	0.000	0.000	Any
Cup of coffee	0.000	0.000	Any
Cup of herbal tea	0.000	0.000	Any
Reishi tea	0.000	0.000	Any
Rosehip tea	0.000	0.000	Any
Salty crackers	0.000	0.000	Any
Water (potable)	0.000	0.000	Any

For everything else...   it's best if it's stored outside.
 

Can't vouch for the accuracy of the stats on the wiki... but from my experience it plays right (according to what's listed).

Edited February 7, 2023 by ManicManiac

[Leeanda]

1 minute ago, ManicManiac said:

@Leeanda

The foods that are best stored "indoors" are a slim minority.

Name	Decay inside (%/day)	Decay outside (%/day)	Best stored
GO! Energy drink	0.167	0.833	Inside
Orange soda	0.167	0.833	Inside
Pinnacle peaches	0.333	1.667	Inside
Pork and beans	0.133	0.667	Inside
Stacy's grape soda	0.167	0.833	Inside
Summit soda	0.167	0.833	Inside
Tin of sardines	0.067	0.333	Inside

Then of course there's the short list where it doesn't matter... 

Name	Decay inside (%/day)	Decay outside (%/day)	Best stored
Birch bark tea	0.000	0.000	Any
Cattail stalk	0.000	0.000	Any
Cup of coffee	0.000	0.000	Any
Cup of herbal tea	0.000	0.000	Any
Reishi tea	0.000	0.000	Any
Rosehip tea	0.000	0.000	Any
Salty crackers	0.000	0.000	Any
Water (potable)	0.000	0.000	Any

 

Can't vouch for the accuracy of the stats on the wiki... but from my experience it plays right (according to what's listed).

Thank you... Surprised about that list. Definitely a few things missing....  Dog food,maple syrup etc.  ..  .

I do leave a tin of dog food and a tin opener outside pv farm every run so at least that won't go bad very quickly😊

[Kranium]

Simply, if it's in a can/tin it's best left inside.

[Lexilogo]

Wow, y'all don't just take a few hundred 0.01 meat slivers off a wolf at the start of every playthrough to power level Cooking 5, then cover your house floor, tables, shelves, and bed with Ruined steaks?

 

To be serious, I think this kind of thing should come with a larger overhaul of food decay's place in the game.

• Cooking lvl 5 no longer protects against poisoning from Ruined food
• An icepack item (maybe just findable, maybe craftable with water?) that sets whatever container it's stored in as using Outside decay values
• A system for creating Jerky out of meat, that either doesn't decay at all or decays very, very slowly, but worse for Calories than regular meat and even worse for thirstiness
• Finally patch Condensed Milk's decay value, seriously this MF "keeps forever" but goes from 100 to 0 after just a hundred days sitting in a cabinet??? good lord

I don't mind food decay being a conquerable hazard, but I don't think it should just be a matter of grinding to cooking level 5 to forever make it a moot mechanic. I would prefer it being a consistent lategame threat and forcing me to make decisions every time I drag in a new meal.

But yeah, excluding a big gamechanging update like that, I honestly wouldn't be against just patching the decay values so outside is no longer the best place to store anything. It doesn't make that much sense from a realism standpoint, it's a bit irritating to deal with, and the decay values on food don't matter that much in the current state of the game anyway, it'd just save us all some headache.

[ManicManiac]

1 hour ago, Leeanda said:

Thank you... Surprised about that list. Definitely a few things missing....  Dog food,maple syrup etc.  ..  .

All the things I left off the list... are items that keep best outside.

[ManicManiac]

1 hour ago, Kranium said:

if it's in a can/tin it's best left inside.

not in this game:
I'll just include the whole list... 

Name	Decay inside (%/day)	Decay outside (%/day)	Best stored
Birch bark tea	0.000	0.000	Any
Cattail stalk	0.000	0.000	Any
Cup of coffee	0.000	0.000	Any
Cup of herbal tea	0.000	0.000	Any
Reishi tea	0.000	0.000	Any
Rosehip tea	0.000	0.000	Any
Salty crackers	0.000	0.000	Any
Water (potable)	0.000	0.000	Any
GO! Energy drink	0.167	0.833	Inside
Orange soda	0.167	0.833	Inside
Pinnacle peaches	0.333	1.667	Inside
Pork and beans	0.133	0.667	Inside
Stacy's grape soda	0.167	0.833	Inside
Summit soda	0.167	0.833	Inside
Tin of sardines	0.067	0.333	Inside
Airline Food - Chicken	0.056	0.028	Outside
Airline Food - Vegetarian	0.056	0.028	Outside
Beef jerky	0.100	0.010	Outside
Black bear meat (cooked)	8.333	0.833	Outside
Black bear meat (raw)	25.000	2.500	Outside
Candy bar/Chocolate Bar	0.250	0.025	Outside
Coho salmon (cooked)	12.500	1.250	Outside
Coho salmon (raw)	33.333	3.333	Outside
Condensed milk	1.000	0.250	Outside
Dog food	0.667	0.167	Outside
Energy bar	0.833	0.417	Outside
Granola bar	0.333	0.033	Outside
Ketchup chips	0.250	0.025	Outside
Lake whitefish (cooked)	12.500	1.250	Outside
Lake whitefish (raw)	33.333	3.333	Outside
Maple syrup	1.000	0.500	Outside
Military-Grade MRE	0.056	0.028	Outside
Moose meat (cooked)	8.333	0.833	Outside
Moose meat (raw)	20.000	2.000	Outside
Peanut butter	1.000	0.500	Outside
Rabbit (cooked)	12.500	1.250	Outside
Rabbit (raw)	33.333	3.333	Outside
Rainbow trout (cooked)	12.500	1.250	Outside
Rainbow trout (raw)	33.333	3.333	Outside
Smallmouth bass (cooked)	12.500	1.250	Outside
Smallmouth bass (raw)	33.333	3.333	Outside
Tomato soup	0.200	0.050	Outside
Venison (cooked)	10.000	1.000	Outside
Venison (raw)	20.000	2.000	Outside
Wolf meat (cooked)	10.000	1.000	Outside
Wolf meat (raw)	33.333	3.333	Outside

[Leeanda]

8 minutes ago, ManicManiac said:

All the things I left off the list... are items that keep best outside.

I see.. thank you🙂. 

There's a few odd ones that I wouldn't think would be outside like soup,chips and MRes..🤔.  I'm sure they had their reasons for it..

[ManicManiac]

@Leeanda
Agreed... I also would have thought there would have been a difference between a sealed canned food item... and an opened canned item.  But there doesn't seem to be that distinction.  

[Leeanda]

9 minutes ago, ManicManiac said:

@Leeanda
Agreed... I also would have thought there would have been a difference between a sealed canned food item... and an opened canned item.  But there doesn't seem to be that distinction.  

Never thought about opened ones but I'm usually starving and don't leave leftovers😊     I should be putting my tinned soup outside though so I can eat it as a popsicle 😁

[ManicManiac]

Since I don't eat found food too much (I like to stockpile), I will "cook" peaches, beans, and tomato soup... but usually just store the open cans somewhere out of the way (outside for tomato soup, and inside for beans and peaches).  Yet for both... the opened cans still decay at the same rate as the sealed ones.  

I just think that's a bit funny.

I suppose that sometimes a videogame just has to "videogame" 

[Leeanda]

8 minutes ago, ManicManiac said:

Since I don't eat found food too much (I like to stockpile), I will "cook" peaches, beans, and tomato soup... but usually just store the open cans somewhere out of the way (outside for tomato soup, and inside for beans and peaches).  Yet for both... the opened cans still decay at the same rate as the sealed ones.  

I just think that's a bit funny.

I suppose that sometimes a videogame just has to "videogame" 

I suppose it is funny😊.    It's not the only oddity in the game though is it😁. 

 

[Kranium]

On 2/7/2023 at 12:39 PM, Kranium said:

Simply, if it's in a can/tin it's best left inside.

2 exceptions (which make no sense) = Condensed Milk & Tomato Soup.

 

This game lacks common sense sometimes haha.

[odizzido]

Over time I think I've come to see how things are working. There is a lot of strange stuff in this game but the effort required to fix it is larger than the reward for the people in charge. You can get 85% of the way there for 30% of the effort kinda thing.

 

So for example the meat on the ground thing, sure maybe wolves would eat it IRL, but you can also use it as bait to get more wolves.....but that's not how the game works. Wolves have a very set area they cannot leave. It would require effort to even get them to move, then require effort to get them to be able to sense stuff on the ground, and all that would result in is people either wanting to build a box the wolves cannot open(which makes sense) which takes even more effort OR people would leave meat on the ground as bait to get even more meat.

[kurja]

On 2/8/2023 at 10:51 PM, odizzido said:

It would require effort to even get them to move, then require effort to get them to be able to sense stuff on the ground, and all that would result in is people either wanting to build a box the wolves cannot open(which makes sense) which takes even more effort OR people would leave meat on the ground as bait to get even more meat.

I'd be totally happy if food outside just vanished when the player isn't looking.. and  yes I do want craftable containers 😃

[odizzido]

I don't know if it still happens, but the living meat sometimes disappears when you're not looking and it ports around. Hopefully that's good enough?

[Stranzua]

The Far Territory DLC mentions something about adding recipes to the game. So, how about reworking the ruined meat system by adding SALT to the game. It can work just like the water purification tablets and it turns 1KG of meat into salted meat, or it can take some time indoors turning it into cured meat. Cured or salted meat decays a lot slower than regular meat, takes more meat for you to smell, but also comes with a thirst penalty. They can also make it so that ruined meat now loses calories, and the amount depends on difficulty. Eating ruined meat without any kind of penalty is definitely convenient. 

Right now, it's just so easy to kill a bear that meat can pile up pretty fast. Plus, after a while, you can have piles and piles of ruined meat at every base/outpost. Personally, I'm not opposed to making bears harder to kill AND adding a way to preserve meat longer. Instead of making it so the bears can bleed out after one shot even with the revolver, maybe bears can have a health bar and now there is only a varying chance that the bear instantly dies or bleeds out. This way hunting bears is similar to the hunted challenge and can take several encounters to bring it down. After watching streamers online, people are literally just side stepping the bear and shooting it repeatedly, and it makes the bears look clunky. Another example is being invulnerable behind railings or sitting on sloped dead trees that the bear can't run on. In my opinion, the bear should always be dangerous.

I also wouldn't mind a variation of the bear called 'the old bear'. If people think making bears harder is a bad idea, maybe there can be 1 to 3 old bears randomly scattered across the island that are much harder to kill. Their meat can have a few hundred calories more per piece and their pelts are used to make a tougher, lighter, and slower decaying version of the bear coat/bear bedroll.  

I've just started playing this game and even though it's been out since 2014, i believe, it still has tons of potential. 

[Merrak]

For the longest time, I thought leaving food on the snow would attract wolves/bears, so I always stored it.

It was at the beginning of my 500 day Voyageur playthrough, that I learned the opposite. For a while, I opted to just keep food in stone caches that I positioned all around the Mountaineer's Hut.

On my interloper runs after this, however, I've just kept them out in the snow.