Are you in favor of even more randomness in the game?

[RandomPlayer]

On 1/28/2022 at 4:05 PM, piddy3825 said:

One of my most memorable runs was doing just that and I ended up spawning into Hushed River Valley.  Normally not an issue surviving there when I go into that region fully equipped, but otherwise long term survival took every bit of my game knowledge and cunning.  

I just recently launched a fresh loper run and spawned into HRV at night during a blizzard...
That's a tough map if you don't know your way around.

[ajb1978]

I would like a migratory style of gameplay, where you are tasked with traveling south to avoid the encroaching winter. The temperature gets colder very fast, so you have to balance stopping to craft and repair, vs. forging ahead and trying to get out ahead of the cold. If you move quickly enough, you might not NEED heavy clothing. So there is incentive to keep moving, not loot everything, and no point behind establishing a safehouse because you're never coming back. You're free to USE your gear, because you know you can always find more later. You don't have to get stuck in the mindset of thinking "what am I gonna do for fire on day 1500" when your goal is to not still be here when that day arrives. On the other hand that sweet rifle you just found, well who knows when the next time you'll find a weapon is. If ever. There's no "stash it at the safehouse for when you need it", you either carry it or leave it behind.

And that would lend itself very nicely to a randomized game world, where your skills are what get you by, and not how much gear you've managed to hoard. Procedural generation would really shine here, although I don't think that's possible for this particular game.

[UpUpAway95]

On 1/30/2022 at 2:24 PM, RandomPlayer said:

I just recently launched a fresh loper run and spawned into HRV at night during a blizzard...
That's a tough map if you don't know your way around.

It's a tough map to start in and try to stay in for any length of time.  Regardless of difficulty, there is no crafting bench and limited cloth/clothing.  Spawning on Loper with the intention of staying there for the duration of the run is just brutal - no knife, no hatchet... with no hatchet, no cutting down scrub brush to open certain paths.  Possibly no bedroll and limited cloth to make a snow shelter and the need to maintain it frequently.  Thankfully, my attempts are usually blessedly short.

[RandomPlayer]

On 2/1/2022 at 7:23 AM, UpUpAway95 said:

  Thankfully, my attempts are usually blessedly short.

what? meaning you die quickly?  lol
or you manage to find your way out quick to the relative safety of Mountain Town?

[Jimmy]

From the perspective of playing on Interloper or harder difficulties, I'd have to say more randomness wouldn't really add more fun to the game for me.

Whenever I play, I'm always admiring how incredibly well the team at Hinterland balanced their game. Inevitably, if I have a death or serious setback in a game, it's due to my own poor judgement or lack of knowledge, not simply due to a random variable I couldn't control.

Some things are just right the way they are. The bespoke map design means there's typically always somewhere close you can seek shelter if it's blowing a blizzard. Knowing you can get specific clothing if you brave Hushed River Valley or the summit of Timberwolf Mountain mean you have goals in each game. Could you imagine how disappointing it would be to just find the tactical backpack sitting in the Camp Office in Mystery Lake instead of requiring a perilous trek across several game zones and braving the wilds of Ash Canyon?

Some games benefit from procedural generation techniques. I've spent many happy hours in games like RimWorld, Dwarf Fortress, or roguelikes. The Long Dark isn't like them, and I don't really think it needs to be. Yes, previous experience, map knowledge, and loot table spoilers can diminish the challenge. The game rewards you for investing your time by revealing more of its hidden secrets each game, letting you hone your strategies with each successive iteration.

I wholeheartedly support adding more random regions to the game through interaction with the modding community. I can't wait to see what the amazing minds out there can create using Hinterland's framework. However, the core of the game is already a polished gem.

[peteloud]

Jimmy

I think that you summed it up very well.  I completely agree with you.

Edited February 3, 2022 by peteloud

[UpUpAway95]

4 hours ago, Jimmy said:

From the perspective of playing on Interloper or harder difficulties, I'd have to say more randomness wouldn't really add more fun to the game for me.

Whenever I play, I'm always admiring how incredibly well the team at Hinterland balanced their game. Inevitably, if I have a death or serious setback in a game, it's due to my own poor judgement or lack of knowledge, not simply due to a random variable I couldn't control.

Some things are just right the way they are. The bespoke map design means there's typically always somewhere close you can seek shelter if it's blowing a blizzard. Knowing you can get specific clothing if you brave Hushed River Valley or the summit of Timberwolf Mountain mean you have goals in each game. Could you imagine how disappointing it would be to just find the tactical backpack sitting in the Camp Office in Mystery Lake instead of requiring a perilous trek across several game zones and braving the wilds of Ash Canyon?

Some games benefit from procedural generation techniques. I've spent many happy hours in games like RimWorld, Dwarf Fortress, or roguelikes. The Long Dark isn't like them, and I don't really think it needs to be. Yes, previous experience, map knowledge, and loot table spoilers can diminish the challenge. The game rewards you for investing your time by revealing more of its hidden secrets each game, letting you hone your strategies with each successive iteration.

I wholeheartedly support adding more random regions to the game through interaction with the modding community. I can't wait to see what the amazing minds out there can create using Hinterland's framework. However, the core of the game is already a polished gem.

Braving the summit and HRV is unnecessary since clothing items like combat pants are available at multiple other "guaranteed" or "nearly guaranteed" spawns in the easier zones (e.g. Signal Hill). 

For me, what I loathe is traversing this entire now huge world to get a specific item (e.g. like crampons) in a specific place with absolutely zero chance of finding it anywhere else at random.  That strategy doesn't enhance my game play... it detracts from it.  I mostly do One Region runs, but it means that, for most regions, crampons are not available to me... ever.  I'm OK with that, but I don't think it would hurt to have one "random" pair floating out there somewhere in the world... just one other than the one in Ash Canyon.  Similarly, I think they could cut back on the total number of flare guns... one on the summit and one other randomly found anywhere else in the world... rather than multiple "guaranteed" or "nearly guaranteed" incidents of them... i.e. remove the loot table system so that the player cannot "memorize" things like if find a mag lens in the cave on the way up to the summit, the hacksaw is in the mountaineer's hut...  In this way, the average Loper would still most likely beeline for the "guaranteed" spawn of such items and never find the single duplicate that exists randomly in the world.  Most of the time, the One Region player would still have to do completely without it... but on rare occasions that luxury item would spawn in their single zone... making finding it really feel like Christmas.

Another thing - Forging is never likely available if I play these challenges on Loper because when I spawn in a zone with a forge, the heavy hammer is not in that zone.  Would it hurt to at least remove that restriction so that on Loper I'd have a chance of being able to forge once in a while while staying in the zone for the entire run?

Also, as long as the Loper player finds matches and knows the zone maps well enough to know where they can sleep, any death is due to player error... not random chance.  To survive, one simply does not need (and has never needed) combat pants, lanterns, mag lenses... etc.... let alone crampons, technical backpacks or even moosehide sachels.

BTW:  I'm responding to you because I got a notification that you quoted me... not sure why.

 

Edited February 3, 2022 by UpUpAway95

[Pınar51-06]

I would like to see a plane crash area ın a random region. It would suit our survivor’s backstory. (By the way ıt wasn’t my ıdea, ı read some topics about that in forum)

ıt would be cool to see our plane and maybe we found some personel stuff or polaroids.

[Jimmy]

On 2/5/2022 at 1:09 AM, Pınar51-06 said:

I would like to see a plane crash area ın a random region. It would suit our survivor’s backstory. (By the way ıt wasn’t my ıdea, ı read some topics about that in forum)

ıt would be cool to see our plane and maybe we found some personel stuff or polaroids.

Would it really, though?

Sure, in Story mode, we have a pilot and a doctor for our characters. However, what's to say that's true in Survival mode? Might not he be an escaped prisoner of Blackrock? Might she not be a forgotten administrator from the local coal mine?

Survival mode doesn't necessarily rely on the lore of Story mode. The characters aren't given canonical names in Survival, just Male or Female. I like to think this offers a measure of creativity in how you want to explore your character.

Personally, I've been meaning to write a Survival story of Prisoner #69420, who escaped Blackrock after being incarcerated for various drug trafficking offences. His goal? Find every bottle of painkillers on Great Bear Island and consume them.

[Pınar51-06]

2 hours ago, Jimmy said:

 I like to think this offers a measure of creativity in how you want to explore your character.

Of course Survival and Story modes depends on different case and this plane crash thing is kinda like my with list, my character’s story line .

I just thought that when we have a new run, our survivors plane affected by aurora and we begin our story ın GBI but ı guess you have a point. Plus, ı upvote the story of Prisoner #69420.

[UpUpAway95]

3 hours ago, Jimmy said:

Would it really, though?

Sure, in Story mode, we have a pilot and a doctor for our characters. However, what's to say that's true in Survival mode? Might not he be an escaped prisoner of Blackrock? Might she not be a forgotten administrator from the local coal mine?

Survival mode doesn't necessarily rely on the lore of Story mode. The characters aren't given canonical names in Survival, just Male or Female. I like to think this offers a measure of creativity in how you want to explore your character.

Personally, I've been meaning to write a Survival story of Prisoner #69420, who escaped Blackrock after being incarcerated for various drug trafficking offences. His goal? Find every bottle of painkillers on Great Bear Island and consume them.

However, survival mode does begin with a screen that says "A mysterious geomagnetic storm has brought your plane crashing down into the Northern Canadian wilderness.  How long can you survive?"  So, unless they eliminate that screen, it's pretty much a set backstory in both Wintermute and Survival.  Of course, you can skip reading it and just head canon your own.

I think plane crash debris at spawn would be a cool addition to the game.  You could still have Prisoner X... who escaped Blackrock Prison and was picked up by a friend in a small plane only to have that plane crash moments later while still over Great Bear Island.

I think, however, the programming of the game world is not really designed to add something as large as a procedurally generated plane crash into the terrain effectively.  As cool as it would be, I doubt we'll ever see it added to the base survival game.. perhaps as a DLC later on though.

[piddy3825]

8 hours ago, Jimmy said:

 

Personally, I've been meaning to write a Survival story of Prisoner #69420, 

HA HA HA HA , I'm laughing out loud so hard right now my dogs are looking at me and wondering if I have finally gone insane!

The prisoner's number made me just bust a gut!  my immediate impression is this guy was a dope fiend rapist!  

Now I am looking forward to reading this fan fiction story of yours.  Get to writing Jimmie!  Your fans await this literary nugget!

Edited February 6, 2022 by piddy3825
spelling

[Jimmy]

22 hours ago, Pınar51-06 said:

ı upvote the story of Prisoner #69420.

 

16 hours ago, piddy3825 said:

Get to writing Jimmie!  Your fans await this literary nugget!

Okay, since you asked for it: Prisoner #69420 - An Interloper's Drug Run!

[piddy3825]

7 hours ago, Jimmy said:

 

Okay, since you asked for it: Prisoner #69420 - An Interloper's Drug Run!

That was very entertaining.  Making a bong outta of can is definitely something to help pass the time while your waiting to score some weed!
we had an old saying back in the day... 
"weed will get you thru times of no money
better than money will get you thru times
of no weed."